I support ethical, legitimate breeders while also adopting from, supporting and volunteering for rescues. Many of us aren't saying not to purchase a puppy or enjoy a puppy, we're just asking people to do a little bit of research to support the long term development of the breed. In addition, we hope that research makes better informed and prepared puppy parents.

Please see Kristina's post above for what a BYB is. https://www.itsahuskything.com/t1042-how-to-find-a-reputable-breeder
Tori and the other forum admins have spent many hours curating and posting important information in "stickies" at the top of each forum. In order to have an informed discussion about various terms, please see those stickies. I feel it's a respectful way of being part of a forum community to fully inform yourself before jumping into threads. This forum has been extremely helpful to me before and after I joined, and I really enjoy the entertaining, education and productive threads. I hope this quality can be maintained.

Finally, those posting that perhaps some breeders don't know better perhaps are not aware that there is a massive amount of ethical breeding information for free on the internet. All libraries have free access to the internet, so there is really no excuse for being ignorant.

Koda wrote:

cinnamonbits wrote:

Puppies from BYBs need to be rescued just as much as dogs from a rescue. The BYB is gonna get the money regardless, but how soon you get the dog may determine a lot about its future.

As harsh as it sounds, that's something I personally do not support. We can't stop BYBs by giving them business. We won't and we can't. I know it sounds awful and cruel, but a boycott is a boycott.

We need harsher animal control laws to deal with that problem. Not purchasing the dogs from irreputable sources.

Isnt it the same thing though if we go rescue dogs.... Im not saying its bad that we are supporting rescues.. But for the few dogs that do get saved at rescues we are supporting the people that dump them off thinking there dog will get rescued.. Anyway you look at it its harsh.. I do agree though we need harsher animal control laws though.. And i also do wish there was a way to create some kind of law to control Breeding as well.. I just think there some many things wrong with this picture you can argue that is has to start wing fixed at one end or the other but actually both sides need taken care of...

Kristina, are you saying that "any breeder" that don't health test, don't breed to a standard, and essentially don't give their puppies the best foundation to life are considered "BYB"

That is exactly what she is saying and that is exactly what a BYB is. They have NO business to be breeding if they are not bettering the breed.
Health tests give the pups the best chance of being healthy. That is the NUMBER ONE priority when bringing new lives into this world, a healthy dog.
Dog should be from exceptional show (and have their own titles) or working lines and conform as close as possible to standard (breeder should be showing or working dogs being bred, not just have dogs with good lines). Dog should be 2 years old. Dog should not be bred more than twice a year at most and a breeder who is doing things right typically with only have one to two breeding total a year, and sometimes they skip a year if they don't need to produce any new lines. Dog should be health tested and have a good score. Breedings should not take place until wanting to produce a dog for working/showing, not "just to have puppies."

There really is no arguing that the above and more I probably left out is what a breeder should consist of. We have so many dogs that die every day, as mentioned, and a dog produced by a well-rounded breeder does not have the risk of having their dogs put as shelters anywhere near as high as BYB because A. these dogs are carefully planned out with the breeding to what dogs together will produce the best possible outcome, to not just conform to looks but have the best temperament possible and be raised the right way those 8-12 weeks they are with them and B. ANY good breeder will put in a contract that the dog is to NOT be resold or surrendered to a shelter, it is to be returned to the breeder who will keep it or rehome it themselves responsibility.

If you are not looking for a dog that comes from a breeder who is doing their best to ensure the health or temperament of the dog you are getting, there is really no reason not to go to a rescue and pay the same price or less you'd pay a BYB and the dog will come usually spayed/neutered, shots, dewormed, free vet check, etc.


And rescuing and directly giving someone money to fuel their nasty breeding hobby is not the same.
I am not putting anyone down for where they got their dog. As stated, A LOT of people on here got their first dog not knowing what really to be looking for, and they love their dogs, and their dogs are amazing. However, going back and buying a dog from that same sort of situation after being exposed to the reality is a different story.

Ericobeasto wrote:

Koda wrote:

cinnamonbits wrote:

Puppies from BYBs need to be rescued just as much as dogs from a rescue. The BYB is gonna get the money regardless, but how soon you get the dog may determine a lot about its future.

As harsh as it sounds, that's something I personally do not support. We can't stop BYBs by giving them business. We won't and we can't. I know it sounds awful and cruel, but a boycott is a boycott.

We need harsher animal control laws to deal with that problem. Not purchasing the dogs from irreputable sources.

Isnt it the same thing though if we go rescue dogs.... Im not saying its bad that we are supporting rescues.. But for the few dogs that do get saved at rescues we are supporting the people that dump them off thinking there dog will get rescued.

It is not even remotely similar. Buying a dog from a byb, no matter what the reason, is only going to promote and support the practice. If people do not buy a byb's puppies then they will have no reason to keep producing puppies and it will stop. Byb will never end if people think as you are right now. A dog in a shelter will die unless adopted so by adopting you are saving that life and more by opening up room for more to be saved. Supporting adoption/rescue does not encourage bad breeding and pet overpopulation, however supporting a byb does. Huge difference.

Huskyluv wrote:

Ericobeasto wrote:

Koda wrote:

cinnamonbits wrote:

Puppies from BYBs need to be rescued just as much as dogs from a rescue. The BYB is gonna get the money regardless, but how soon you get the dog may determine a lot about its future.

As harsh as it sounds, that's something I personally do not support. We can't stop BYBs by giving them business. We won't and we can't. I know it sounds awful and cruel, but a boycott is a boycott.

We need harsher animal control laws to deal with that problem. Not purchasing the dogs from irreputable sources.

Isnt it the same thing though if we go rescue dogs.... Im not saying its bad that we are supporting rescues.. But for the few dogs that do get saved at rescues we are supporting the people that dump them off thinking there dog will get rescued.

It is not even remotely similar. Buying a dog from a byb, no matter what the reason, is only going to promote and support the practice. If people do not buy a byb's puppies then they will have no reason to keep producing puppies and it will stop. Byb will never end if people think as you are right now. A dog in a shelter will die unless adopted so by adopting you are saving that life and more by opening up room for more to be saved. Supporting adoption/rescue does not encourage bad breeding and pet overpopulation, however supporting a byb does. Huge difference.

But its not the BYBs putting these dogs in shelters... Its the people who abandon them.... I dont want to come off as a guy who doesnt care about a life of any living thing.. Case if you knew me i am the complete opposite.. Im just saying its not just the BYB causing problems but its also the people who abandon dogs.. Im not trying to make anyone mad or have anyone think anything less of me.. I like this community and you guys helped me out with a bunch of questions ive had.. I just wanted to put in my opinion... Sorry..

I'm a perfect example of not knowing any better. I've always had mutts my entire life. I've always wanted a husky, but really didn't know the difference with breeders. So Lucian came from a BYB. If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have him. Basically all I knew was that the place I got him from wasn't a puppy mill. She only had to the 2 dogs, and maybe 2 litters a year. I didn't even know what a BYB was. I do plan in the future to rescue my next husky. Just waiting for the right time.

It depends on -why- the people are placing that dog in the shelter.

But most often people who go to unethical, not reputable breeders are also the ones who haven't done the research on the breed they're getting which then falls on the breeder AND the owner.

BUT - it could have (maybe) been avoided if the breeder would have taken the time to discuss the breed and it's tendencies, energy requirements, temperament and intelligence with the buyer. Even health problems within their breed!

A person who wants money - as are what most "back yard breeders" are breeding for - will spin a fantastic story about their breed of dogs to anyone who inquires. Why? Because they want the money. It doesn't matter if the dog isn't a good fit for them. So you sell a high energy dog to a family who doesn't have the time to put into that high energy dog. It falls on the breeder. But the "reasoning" that we see for the dog being abandoned is just "we don't have time"

It almost always goes back to the breeder.

The breeder that i got my pup from does not do as much testing as she should she has done some but not as much as she should probably.. I didnt really know much bout the testing before hand.. However she only has a few litters a year and does have me sign contractthat i return dog to her if i dont want him for some reason.. I dont feel she is a BYB and i know alot of you are going to say she is but thats your opinion and this is mine.. I dont know if i will get my next pup from her down the road.. I really want to think more about this BYB stuff.. But if i do in the future i will be going into feeling that i am not supporting a BYB..

Guess what - I signed a contract too. My dog comes from the Amish.

Need I say more?

Niraya wrote:

Guess what - I signed a contract too. My dog comes from the Amish.

Need I say more?

Dont understand ur point sorry... Not being mean i just dont get what ur trying to say.

Edited because I thought it was from a different breeder!

A person having you sign a contract does not make them a good breeder.

If a person is health testing - ALL of their dogs should be health tested. Not some. Not a few. Not most. ALL. If not hips but there is ZERO excuse to not have a dogs eyes checked EVERY.SINGLE.YEAR. And ESPECIALLY prior to a breeding.

I can go to my friend who breeds corgis. She takes very good care of her dogs/puppies. Gets them all their shots and de-wormings. Works with them. etc etc. Doesn't do health testing aside from vet checks. Bred aggression into her lines (albeit not intentionally). Has passed on monorchidism (retaining at least one testicle). But she loves her pets, has buyers sign a contract stating the dogs to be returned to them if something happens and screens homes.

Does not make her a good breeder.

Ericobeasto wrote:

The breeder that i got my pup from does not do as much testing as she should she has done some but not as much as she should probably.. I didnt really know much bout the testing before hand.. However she only has a few litters a year and does have me sign contractthat i return dog to her if i dont want him for some reason.. I dont feel she is a BYB and i know alot of you are going to say she is but thats your opinion and this is mine.. I dont know if i will get my next pup from her down the road.. I really want to think more about this BYB stuff.. But if i do in the future i will be going into feeling that i am not supporting  a BYB..

A BYB isn't really a subjective term. It's based on facts.  It has nothign to do with my feelings or someone elses.. I can tell you this much, her lines are not clean, good representations of the breed  and they come from some very not so fantastic places...I will not go into that further on a public forum.

Not to mention, her prices are OUTRAGEOUS for what you are getting..my dog was only... from Karnovanda. From a finished dog with health tests and great lines.

There are plenty of reputable breeders, and they produce fantastic agouti's and dirty faces, April Peters for one.

It also doesnt make her a breeder that doesnt care where her dogs go if the owner doesnt want them... Meaning a shelter... I just think there should be a type of breeder between BYB and a amazing breeder that does all the test.. Am i saying they are right for doing it good but not perfect??? No... Im just saying they arnt as bad as the BYBs that dont care thats all..

Ok timeout.. I dont think u guys know who i am getting my pup from.. And i wont say her name.. But this wasnt my OP.. And my breeder want crazy expensive or anything..

To answer this whole thing about BYB's...

There ARE variances and scales. It is far from being as black and white as we make it out to be. BYB is a broad term used to describe anyone who isn't health testing, showing (showing is NOT limited to JUST conformation - it includes agility, Schutzhund, field trials, herding trials [or actual herding work], sled dogs, weight pull, obedience, Rally O etc as I'm sure I missed a lot of sports/competitions) or working their dogs. But too try and include ALL of the things that make or don't make what a "BYB" is or isn't or even a reputable breeder - I'd have to make an entirely new post, reserve the first 15+ pages and start writing and even then I probably wouldn't scratch the surface.

Ericobeasto wrote:

It also doesnt make her a breeder that doesnt care where her dogs go if the owner doesnt want them... Meaning a shelter... I just think there should be a type of breeder between BYB and a amazing breeder that does all the test.. Am i saying they are right for doing it good but not perfect??? No... Im just saying they arnt as bad as the BYBs that dont care thats all..

BYB isn't someone who doesn't care for their dogs. A backyard breeder is just a term that is used to describe a less responsbile/ethical person who breeds. The term was coined because people were literally breeding dogs in their backyard. But that doesn't make her a good, reputable breeder either. She is a BYB. She's selling puppies for money. She is not proving her dogs in ANY venue. She is not helping to make her breed more healthy.

A signed contract does not keep her dogs out of shelters. The person who actually SIGNS the contract has to in fact call the breeder up and be willing to admit that they can't keep the dog and be willing to return the dog.

Thank you ceara for all your information.. And eeryone else who gave their opinion.. I think i understand where all your opinions are coming from.. I dont regret at all however from where i got my pup. But maybe next time around i will find a breeder that does testing. I hope no one thinks any less of me and i hope you can all still think of me as a good forum buddy. Thanks!!

Ericobeasto wrote:

Thank you ceara for all your information.. And eeryone else who gave their opinion.. I think i understand where all your opinions are coming from.. I dont regret at all however from where i got my pup. But maybe next time around i will find a breeder that does testing. I hope no one thinks any less of me and i hope you can all still think of me as a good forum buddy. Thanks!!

We would never think less of you! You didn't know!! WE are trying to help you. That is all.

Eric, like previously said, you are not the first to get your first husky without knowing what all to look for. Most people only learned after joining here! You love Koda and have a bond with him already. We understand.

No one will think less of you Eric .

I'm curious and would like to pose a question to you, though.

Quote :

I just think there should be a type of breeder between BYB and a amazing breeder that does all the test

what would make your "ideal" amazing, high end BYB breeder? Health testing alone doesn't make a good breeder.

Niraya wrote:

No one will think less of you Eric .

I'm curious and would like to pose a question to you, though.

Quote :

I just think there should be a type of breeder between BYB and a amazing breeder that does all the test

what would make your "ideal" amazing, high end BYB breeder? Health testing alone doesn't make a good breeder.

O i know that.. I just typed that cause im on my phone and didnt feel like typing all the qualities lol..

Ah! Gotcha

IMO, at the very heart of this breeder continuum is the question of WHY the person is breeding. On one end we have the BYBs who are in it for the money and don't bother with anything that might cost them, such as checking hips and eyes and showing. On the other end are the "high end" show breeders who are in it for the prestige. I just heard from one yesterday who went on and on about how her dogs are probably the best on the country (her words); how even a novice can finish one of her dogs; how I better hurry with a deposit because they go quick (though given the number of dogs she has, there always seems to be another litter on the way), blah blah blah. There was not one single question about what kind of home *I* would provide or whether or not I had prior husky experiences, etc; and not one word about the temperament of her dogs (and no, good temperament is not nor should be "implied" just because they are show dogs). I got the impression all she cared about was that I was a potential show home that could add to her status as a "top breeder". I've got to say that turns me off just as much as the worst of any BYB/puppy mill.
But somewhere in between these two end of the spectrum are those who realize that there is so much more than hips good/eyes clear and # CH in the pedigree. It matters not how many BiS that dog has if he (or she) can't produce pups equally as good or better than himself/herself. If I go to a breeder for a pup, I want a long conversation about why this particular dog (and not some other) was chosen for this particular bitch; a strong familiarity with the dogs in the pedigree (not just how many 'wins' it has); and a clear sense of what is ideal for the breed and how their breeding program is working toward that ideal (again, not just how many wins there can be in the show ring). Sorry to be so long-winded, it's just that IMO, this goes so much deeper than checking hips/eyes and showing.