So if breeders aren't in it for the money why do they charge $500 to $2000 for a pup they only have 8 weeks invested in?

When you watch you beloved dog suffer in pain because he has Hip Dysplasia that could have been prevented by health testing from the breeder, you WILL think differently. Dakota, who I lost just over a year ago, was "healthy" his first 9 years of life until he started to struggle to get up one day to find out from the xrays that he had HP. There is nothing harder than watching your beloved pet be in pain and know that it could have been prevented. The last year of his life, he developed HP and Seizures which took his life from me way too soon. I thought I would have a good 5 more years with him. Health testing IS important!

Brian, I read an article and I'm going to try and find it again, but it listed a breakdown of wht a reputable breeder had to do and pay for for a litter of puppies. If they are Reputable and are doing it right, they are not making any money on the pups. But then a reputable breeder is not in it for the money.

I'd be interested because rescues treat dogs for heartworms, shots, spay/neuter, and sometimes weeks of boarding and only get at most $350 adoption fee. Having 5 to 6 pups at even just $500 each seems like it's about the money.

Health testing for both dogs is more than 600. Then there is c section or labor and delivery costs, food, registering the litter, shots, food for mom and dad, the cost of the stud fee 1200 roughly. Wormers. Milk replaces if mom wont nurse. The thousands of dollars that went into each dog to prove it was correct breeding stock. There are many things.

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I'd be interested because rescues treat dogs for heartworms, shots, spay/neuter, and sometimes weeks of boarding and only get at most $350 adoption fee. Having 5 to 6 pups at even just $500 each seems like it's about the money.

I'm interested too because my sister wants to breed her dog and I know its for the money. Off the top of my head I can think that the vet appt alone (because even BYBs need to get at least ONE set of shots done first before selling the puppies otherwise people wouldn't buy from them) would run $95 (at least at my vet it would because they charge for the vet to see the pup for a first time exam AND the shot itself) and say the person has maybe six pups so that's $600 right there. Plus food and such. But I'm not sure how much everything else would cost.

Oh, we should see if we can find a breakdown on what rescues pay to bring in a dog before they can adopt them out. I, for one, will never complain about the cost of an adoption fee of a Rescue dog. I used to....when I didn't know any better. I think people would be shocked to know the costs. A lot of these rescue dogs need extensive medical car because of neglect. At least that is what I notice now that I'm paying attention.

mheath0429 wrote:

Health testing for both dogs is more than 600. Then there is c section or labor and delivery costs, food, registering the litter, shots, food for mom and dad, the cost of the stud fee 1200 roughly. Wormers. Milk replaces if mom wont nurse. The thousands of dollars that went into each dog to prove it was correct breeding stock. There are many things.

That's way high for health testing, you can get an ultrasound for that. One of my dogs had teeth cleaned and a mass removed and meds today for $300. Rescues uses wormers they are cheap. Food, shots, are a wash (anyone involved with dogs does that). Trying to compare cost to a rescues since it's not about the money.

Brian, I'm still looking for that article but here is a breakdown from a breeder that was done in 1995. It gives you somewhat of an idea. I'm still searching for better source...

http://www.vintagegoldens.com/pdf/breedingcost.pdf

Here's a good breakdown of fees from a rescue:
http://ruffliferescue.net/adoption_fees.html

Our rescue easily spends more than that if the dog needs more medical care.

The fee to adopt/buy your dog is definitely the cheapest part of owning a dog!

Lordbroll wrote:

mheath0429 wrote:

Health testing for both dogs is more than 600. Then there is c section or labor and delivery costs, food, registering the litter, shots, food for mom and dad, the cost of the stud fee 1200 roughly. Wormers. Milk replaces if mom wont nurse. The thousands of dollars that went into each dog to prove it was correct breeding stock. There are many things.

That's way high for health testing, you can get an ultrasound for that. One of my dogs had teeth cleaned and a mass removed and meds today for $300. Rescues uses wormers they are cheap. Food, shots, are a wash (anyone involved with dogs does that). Trying to compare cost to a rescues since it's not about the money.

Why does this always have to be a debates no one here is against rescuing or even acted like that.

Another good article!

This is from Forbes

http://www.forbes.com/sites/allenstjohn/2012/02/17/how-much-is-that-doggie-in-the-window-the-surprising-economics-of-purchasing-a-purebred-puppy/

How Much is that Doggie in the Window? The Surprising Economics of Purchasing a Purebred Puppy

The song got it right. As much as dog lovers melt over a cute, cuddly puppy, when it comes time to actually buy a dog, price sensitivity enters into it. In a recent, very popular post about the Westminster Dog show, I talked about getting my now-three-year-old golden retriever Tessie. As we shopped for a breeder, I discovered that Golden puppies ranged in price from around $500 for a dog from a backyard breeder or a pet store to upwards of $3,000 for a show quality pup from a top breeder.


My golden retriever Tessie as an eight-week old puppy

I’ll admit now that price was a very important parameter back then. I will also admit now, that while we made an amazingly great choice, I was also really stupid.

Here’s the truth in one sentence: The initial purchase price of a dog is a drop in the bucket compared to the other expenses of dog ownership.

Let’s do the math. A $900 dog from a puppy mill costs 21 cents a day over the puppy’s 12-year life span. A $2,000 dog from a quality breeder costs 45 cents a day. The difference is less than a quarter a day. And what does that 24 cents buy for your dog? A small handful of supermarket kibble.

But what are you getting for your money with the more expensive dog? No doubt about it, golden retriever puppies are among the cutest creatures on earth. When I walked Tessie when she was little, and groups of squealing 16-year-old girls flocked over to pet her, I understood how Brad Pitt must feel. And the cheaper puppy is going to be just as adorable as the more expensive one.

A quality breeder does two important things. He (or she) has the potential parents checked for heart problems, eye problems, and hip problems, and if the dogs don’t get these clearances, they’re not bred. They also breed for temperament, and can tell you if a dog from any given litter is likely to be a drivey hunting dog or laid-back, lick-your-face couch queen. Most importantly, parents with behavioral problems–from biting to skittishness–don’t make it to the breeding pool.

And if a $900 puppy mill dog ends up with hip dysplasia or a heart condition or a thyroid condition, you could easily swallow that $1,100 difference in a single vet visit, and still have a dog with a shortened life, or a compromised quality of life. And while quality breeders will offer a refund if your puppy has a serious health problem, the far better alternative is not having to use that guarantee. Good breeders aren’t cheap or easy to find, but they tend to be cheaper than the best dog hip surgeon, or the best canine behaviorist.

This isn’t theoretical. A member of a golden retriever forum in which I’m a member told this sad tale. She got her puppy from a backyard breeder, a casual breeder who doesn’t do the cruel, large-scale, for-profit breeding of a puppy mill that feeds to pet stores, but also doesn’t do medical or behavioral clearances on the parents. The owner of the new puppy felt proud at having haggled down the price on her dog from $550 to $300. That lovely cute puppy ended up needing double hip surgery at eight months. Needless to say, her vet bill ate up her savings tenfold or more. And even after thousands of dollars of veterinary care, the poor puppy still will never romp that Tessie does.

No, buying from a quality breeder doesn’t guarantee your dog will be healthy and well-adjusted, but having four or five generations of checkable health and behavioral clearances has to increase your chances of having a healthy, happy dog. And for a quarter a day, it seems like very cheap insurance.

Having given you the actuarial analysis, let me provide a real-world example of the cost of raising a dog, and how quickly it can outstrip the initial purchase price of the puppy.

Megan the discussion is not about rescuing it's about breeding and that responsible breeders are not in it for the money (not my words). It's about ethics and is it ethical to continue to add to the overpopulation problem when so many lives are being lost. Maybe people have a different view of the terms ethic and responsible.

Thanks Mindy but most of that looks like operating costs (one time expenses) not costs for the care and welfare of the puppies. Rescues have the same basic operating costs, crates, food, blankets, heat and AC, vet costs.

I have to say some of the costs listed are very trumped up. Travel to Chicago....

See I'm trying to compare rescue costs versus and 8 week old puppy since every time one of these discussions come up the claim is made it's not about the money with breeding.

There are very few things sold in today's society the that's not about the money. I know most rescues don't come close to breaking even but they are supported by volunteers and donations.

I know the cost of dog ownership far to well. Close to $8000 in the last year of my BC Maggies' life. That's not the info I was looking for.

I'm having a hard time finding the article. I agree Brian, it's not the best breakdown but it does bring to light some costs that I think people don't realize. I'm still looking though. And I keep finding other great articles....like this one.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2106&aid=1543

And this one

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/comparison.html

This is just dragging on and dragging on. Let the tdiscussion die and let's let everyone do what they want to do, this thread is no longer contributing to the original intent and there is more than enough information on here to give them food for thought anyways. I don't know why anyone is bothering trying to convince Brian otherwise, as this isn't the first round of this topic and his outlook on it is not going to change.. And that's fine, and it's fine if people believe differently than him. All this thread is doing at this point is trying to make people feel terrible about wanting a non rescue or saying rescue people are high and mighty, and that's not cool on either end.

It's not just my mind that's not changing Heather but whatever.

Mindy, that was good information. It takes a lot to be a responsible breeder. I enjoyed reading that. Thank you for sharing.

prentiss80 wrote:

Mindy, that was good information. It takes a lot to be a responsible breeder. I enjoyed reading that. Thank you for sharing.

You're welcome!

Lordbroll wrote:

See I'm trying to compare rescue costs versus and 8 week old puppy since every time one of these discussions come up the claim is made it's not about the money with breeding.

There are very few things sold in today's society the that's not about the money. I know most rescues don't come close to breaking even but they are supported by volunteers and donations.

Like you stated, rescues usually don't get as much from their adoption fees as it cost to get the dog adopted. They do depend a lot on donations, which breeders don't get.

Here's one run down from a reputable breeder I know of her last litter:


Cost of showing and finishing CH aprox (conservatively) 5000-7000
OFA 100
CERF (3) 100
Driving 16 hrs to breed her 500 (travel hotel food)
Stud fee 1000
testing to see when to see the stud dog 100
all whelping supplies 150
2nd puppy stuck trip to vet visit at 2 am
150
2 oxy shots 30
trip to vet 3 times with diarrhea issues with mom and newborn puppies within the first 2 weeks 350
oh forgot xray before she had them 75
shots 30
not including food etc
bc mom and puppies eat a lot
and time spent raising the puppies
kept two puppies $0 back for the litter for those two and the other puppy given back to breeder of my bitch $0 total income....um 0 and negative a TON lol
only 3 puppies
so total expenses were around 7585 - 9585
Even if she sold all 3 of the puppies for 1000 each she wouldn't even be close to breaking even.

So yeah, not all breeders are in it for the money.

I agree that not all breeders are in it for the money. I don't think responsible breeders are contributing to the problem of dogs in rescue - because to my mind a responsible breeder, as well as doing all the health checks, will take a dog back at any point in its life if something goes wrong. The dog would go back to the breeder and not into rescue.

But I don't think there are many responsible breeders. Unfortunately most dogs come from BYBs or puppy mills, and the scale of these operations is huge. I wish more people would educate themselves about where dogs come from. I think many people are duped by - or choose not to look too closely at - adverts for puppies that need 're-homing' and don't realize it is just a front for a puppy mill or BYB. For far too many breeders, it's just about the money, and they can make profits because they charge inflated prices, don't do the health checks, and don't care properly for the puppies.

Personally, I would always get a rescue. But I understand that some people like to show their dogs or for whatever reason want to go to a breeder. If they find a reputable breeder, that's fine. Sadly too many people think a pedigree = good breeder and don't look into things properly. I think threads like this are useful. It doesn't make sense to say no one will change their minds, because although some of us won't, there are also people here who say they would do things differently next time - and I admire them for that.

I've had rescues that have cost mini fortunes and born with diseases that they didn't need to be born with if the breeders had just done their job in screening the parents in the first place. Of course if the breeders of these dogs would have been responsible in any sense these dogs would not have added to the shelter or rescue over population crisis either. But to say that there is no place for reputable breeders that keep our breeds true to form, function, and health is IMO ridiculous.

I enjoy my rescue pets as much as my purebred working/show dogs. They all have their own 'jobs' in my world. Whether it's being a comforting companion who needed a home or if it's in the show ring or on the trails. I will choose whichever route suits my personal needs to expand my furry family based on my own personal desires and needs.