I care to believe the point of that article was that MOST and of course not all breeders are irresponsible idiots.
Actually I sort of like the idea of if someone is going to breed (professional and BYB's) their dogs then yeah I think spending a day or two at the local pound putting "unwanted" pets down just might make the irresponsible breeders think twice.

And................ "if we got rid of all breeding" ..................obviously will never happen...........such a dumb holier then thou comment as far as I'm concerned.

I didn't mean for it to be holier than thou? I just thought that is what the article meant.

Sorry if I came off that way but that is not how I meant it.

Sorry with all do respect I value life over lineage. The breed can be maintained with probably 1/1000 of the number of register breeders. How many purebred dogs end up in the show ring versus a shelter? They don't even use pure breeds much for working or racing any more. Furthermore, does a mix breed deserve to die just because they aren't pure?

If we did the same "breeding" and "culling" with humans it would be something on par with Nazi Germany.

Len, thanks for that article it made me very unhappy to think that dogs are being tortured. I read an ad where a lady could not keep her dog anymore, and she stated in her add that she would not give her dog to anyone unless they met certain requirements. One of them was the person had to live close enough for her to see where they lived. She wanted to make sure they had a big fenced in back yard for the dog to play and run. She said if they did not like her requirements too bad. She wanted her know her dog was going to be safe. After reading this article, I salute her. I remember buying my niece a Hamster. She had it less than a week and did not want it. I was very upset with her. It is so easy to take a pet and think nothing of getting rid of it and not knowing the consequences for your action. This brought tears to my eyes.

Lordbroll wrote:

Sorry with all do respect I value life over lineage. The breed can be maintained with probably 1/1000 of the number of register breeders. How many purebred dogs end up in the show ring versus a shelter? They don't even use pure breeds much for working or racing any more. Furthermore, does a mix breed deserve to die just because they aren't pure?

If we did the same "breeding" and "culling" with humans it would be something on par with Nazi Germany.

I didn't say anything or anyone deserved to die, nor was I rude to anyone. Please do not make me feel like I have done something wrong because i have an opinion that differs. When I said with all due respect earlier, it was so that you knew I wasn't being rude I really wanted to see the information you were talking about.

I have asked a lot of questions, not because I think I know better, but because I am genuinely asking. No one can learn without asking. I'm sorry if I offended anyone because I believe there is place for breeding, but I wasn't trying to.

I've seen just as many rescuers (probably more) with the same "holier than thou" attitude that you're claiming Megan to have. It's okay when a rescuer says "There shouldn't be one dog bred until the 'overpopulation problem' is dealt with". But when someone who is an advocate for responsible breeding says it - it's a "holier than thou" attitude?

MANY responsible breeders have in fact worked in shelters and rescues and more often then not the reason they got into breeding was because their first or second or third dog was a rescue and they wanted to do something that was right. The world of responsible breeding may be in the minority but it is not as small as many seem to think.

As for those stats - everyone knows that the majority of dogs that end up in shelters are from irresponsible breeders back yard, mill or otherwise. Where's the stat that shows how hard the responsible breeders fight to keep their dogs out of the shelters?*
(* - There are the exception where a reputable breeders dog does in fact end up in a shelter - but if the breeder finds out that dog is immediately pulled. The very small number that do remain are because the breeder hasn't found out. Remember - this IS in the minority).

Lastly - not everyone wants a rescue dog. Not every one wants a mixed breed. I get really tired of seeing people come on this forum being chastised for going to a breeder (be it a good or bad breeder) rather than choosing to rescue. You (general) have no place to judge or make someone feel guilty for having gotten a dog from a breeder.

I understand the point that idiots will always breed and there will always be shelter dogs dying because of them. I truly do. It's why I will likely always rescue.

However, people are always going to want puppies, even when the only option is to go to an irreputable breeder. Because many people are uneducated, it's safe to say that people are always going to buy puppies when and where they are available.

But let's play devil's advocate here. So what if we got rid of all reputable breeders because we need to save all the shelter dogs? Your point is that idiots always breed, so we'll always have dogs in need of rescue. Sure. But what would those dogs look like? Would we still have breeds? Eventually BYBs will just be the only ones breeding unhealthy dogs to unhealthy dogs. Then we're all only buying or rescuing BYB dogs because that's all that are available because we did away with all breeders that we could, including the reputable ones. And well... I don't like that world either.

There needs to be a balance. It's like the sex education debate. Young, uneducated kids, and even the educated ones are probably always going to have sex before marriage ever since it's not socially acceptable to get married at ages 12-18 like it was hundreds of years ago. Now... we could tell people "just abstain" and that will solve the teen pregnancy problem in the country. But time and studies have proven that that doesn't work. So what does? A combination of abstinence and safe sex education/practices works better than anything else at this point. You need both because people will always want to have sex, and for those that refuse to wait, they need to know how to have sex without making babies. Believe it or not, I think the breeding debate is the same exact argument.

The bottom line in my mind is that both practices--rescuing (abstinence) and REPUTABLE breeding (safe sex)--have a place in this world.

But that's my And before people start going off on me, this is my personal opinion. When I speak, I don't represent the forum as a whole. I am my own person

Everyone can and is entitled to an opinion, if you feel bad about it its not my fault I feel fine about mine.

I don't feel bad about my opinion, but I don't feel its okay to insinuate I support nazi practices or don't value life. That was not necessary. In fact, I greatly value the life and health of sick dogs, that why I support positive breeding practices, because the point of responsible breeding is to create a healthier, more stable dog.

I too agree that there are just as many rescue people that have a 'better than everyone' attitude because they 'rescue' and look down their noses at anyone that doesn't...being a 'rescue' advocate doesn't make you better than those of us that believe in breeding selectively for the healthiest breed representations. Believing that breeding for health, quality, and functionality to a breed does not make anyone a "nazi" either.

Fact is a 'rescue' dog isn't going to fit everyone's needs in a dog. Just like a breeder purchase isn't right for everyone either. The best thing we can do as a Siberian Husky loving community is support rescue AS WELL AS educate on responsible breeding practices and how to identify responsible breeders from the 'rest' of them. I have rescues as well as breeder purchased dogs in my kennel and there isn't a single one that I regret but there were things I wanted to do with my dogs that I couldn't do with my rescues...so I found responsible breeders to fulfill my other wants.

I like when people say: "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..."





...except when it differs from their own.

As a huge supporter and advocate of rescue, I do also support those (and even possibly myself if that day came) about purchasing from a REAL reputable breeder.

Just because all water is fluid doesn't mean all fluid is water. People are going to disagree, always.

I too agree that both rescuing and responsible breeding both have a place in this world. And I think that it truly depends on the person or people involved and the life they lead, whether a rescue is a good fit for their life at the time or if a puppy (breeder) is a better fit.

arooroomom wrote:

Just because all water is fluid doesn't mean all fluid is water. People are going to disagree, always.

If everyone always agreed, the world we live in would be a terribly boring place.

I get put off by those who think that getting a rescue is the only way to go, and that if you buy a puppy then you are evil or something. Rescue dogs are not for everyone. You have to look at the kind of person that gets a puppy and dumps them in a shelter or worse. It has nothing to do with where they got it, it has to do with the kind of person you are. I don't care what happens, I would NEVER take my dogs to the pound, I would find a way to keep them no matter what, they are my family.

I'll admit it, when I got Nikko I did not know any better and got him at a petstore. He turned out to the the BEST dog I could have ever hoped for. He is healthy, well adjusted and awesome. When I was looking for a 2nd one, I tried visiting rescue dogs and none of the meetings went all that well, and I decided I want to know the history of my dog, especially one that I am introducing to Nikko, so I found a good breeder and got Yukon. There were too many unknowns that I was not able to handle by getting a rescue. If you have the time, money and patience I am sure it is a rewarding experience, and if I could I would.

I just hate it that people think you contributing to the problem unless you rescue. Puppy mills are not going to go away unless the laws change, and if I did not get Nikko, it could have been some person who did not know what they were getting into, and he could be in a shelter or worse, but instead he is in a loving home. What needs to happen is for people to stop getting a puppy without doing their homework, and to make a commitment!

So I say stop hating on people that want to get a puppy from a breeder, because rescuing is not for everyone!!!!!

In other news today, the sky is blue and violets are not violet.

Jason, I agree with you, no matter where you get your dog from, treat it right and make them part of the family. I love my dog; he is part of our family. He is eating better than me. I take him to the vet and I have him on a good diet. He is happy and we are happy with him. Let us all agree to disagree. There are different strokes for different folks. There are a variety of breeds of dogs in this world and I think that is a good thing. What appeal to me might not appeal to the next person? I am glad for choices.

rofl I'm kinda confused as to why someone gave Heather a negative treat?

I mean. Violets aren't violet, after all.

Not a like/ dislike button, folks. Otherwise I would have negative treated her ass back to the Stone Age

Goodness, I may cry myself to sleep tonight knowing someone here doesn't like me ;(

Just kidding. I got over that like two years ago. Probably more like 4.5 years ago on the original forum, actually. Chances are I don't like them either but I am not moronic enough to use a treat button. I'm glad I bug people that much.

By the way, blueberries are more violet than blue when squished.

I was just trying to change the subject from rescue/breeder bashing to naming what colors things are and are not. Gosh.

The point of breeding is supposed to be to further the species and better it. Now, not all breeders know this, that's what this forum is for, to educate people. There are tips we can give people who want to breed so that they can better the species. People are going to breed, we wont be able to prevent that, there is always going to be a demand for puppies but educating we can do. No one should be holier than anyone else. Puppies from BYBs need to be rescued just as much as dogs from a rescue. The BYB is gonna get the money regardless, but how soon you get the dog may determine a lot about its future.

And not all shelters are kill shelters. The one I volunteer at is not and keeps its dogs and cats til they are adopted.

Purple rain, I understand is the reason that the violets and blueberries are what they are.

cinnamonbits wrote:

Puppies from BYBs need to be rescued just as much as dogs from a rescue. The BYB is gonna get the money regardless, but how soon you get the dog may determine a lot about its future.

As harsh as it sounds, that's something I personally do not support. We can't stop BYBs by giving them business. We won't and we can't. I know it sounds awful and cruel, but a boycott is a boycott.

We need harsher animal control laws to deal with that problem. Not purchasing the dogs from irreputable sources.

Why do all BYB have to be put in the same category? I refuse to believe that there are no good BYB. I just think this is judgmental. If you are a good person, it should not matter where you get your puppy from. I got two puppies from supposing good reputable places. They did not tell the truth and they came with papers. I just think if a person really cares about what they are doing they will do right by the puppies they are trying to sale. That is my opinion.

prentiss80 wrote:

Why do all BYB have to be put in the same category? I refuse to believe that there are no good BYB. I just think this is judgmental. If you are a good person, it should not matter where you get your puppy from. I got two puppies from supposing good reputable places. They did not tell the truth and they came with papers. I just think if a person really cares about what they are doing they will do right by the puppies they are trying to sale. That is my opinion.

I don't understand what you're trying to say when you cite your experiences?

BYBs put themselves in that category when they don't health test, don't breed to a standard, and essentially don't give their puppies the best foundation to life. If they were truly "good" people and "wanted the best" they would ensure their dogs were the best they could be and the healthiest they could be before making more.