A dog being AKC registered does not make the dog healthy or free of inheritable diseases etc.

Being AKC registered means that your dog is a purebred and it's lineage can be traced.

Other than that - you're playing the health gamble if you don't go to a breeder who does specific health testing.

And in this case - even if you do have some lineage information, you still don't have the moms side. I think this is a can of worms.

She just moved and she cannot find the pappers for the father. She said she talked with AkC and she is going to get papers on the mother. I don't know, what I will do? She is making sure they have their first shots. She seems to care more than the last person. Only time will tell. Your dogs are beautiful. Thanks for your help and advice.

This sounds pretty sketchy. As others have said, papers do not equal healthy dogs. And as far as my knowledge goes, you can't just "get" papers. You have a certain amount of time, a year I think, to register a pup from a registerable litter. If the mom isn't already registered, she won't be able to just get papers.

All in all, it's your choice, but there are many red flags here.

Honestly - it's not a situation I would get into it. I have an AKC registered dog with health problems. I've spent going on two years talking with vets and very many different breeders (not just breeders in Siberians).

Ultimately it's your choice and you decide. You MIGHT luck out and get a healthy dog from these people. Or you'll get an unhealthy dog who's vet bills will costs you hundreds and eventually thousands of dollars down the road and over the course of the dogs lifetime.

IMO - "making sure they have their first shots" =/= (doesn't equal) "caring". Every person who breeds animals should ensure that their animals have their shots and the offspring get their shots. That's not something that equates to caring or something that proves that a person cares.

Caring about an animal goes much further than just giving it love, shelter and food/water etc. If you care about an animal and you want to breed that animal - you will want to prove it is healthy beyond just a "vet check". Eyes, hearts, hips, elbows, knees (if your breed needs them), thyroid, VWD etc etc etc depending on what breed of dog it is and what the "standard" set of tests are to help reduce the risk of inheritance in that breed.

I'm not a dog breeder and I've been studying genetics and structure and have even now purchased a book on canine genetics to learn about inheritance of genetic diseases in dogs. If a breeder isn't health testing I won't even give them a second look.

AKC will not just "give" a dog papers. If you feel you have a purebred dog that doesn't have papers you can get a PAL number (you send in pictures of your dog and apply for the number and the AKC will rule if your dog "looks" purebred or not) and they'll receive a number but that is very different from actually being registered as a purebred and having the dogs pedigree etc.

A reputable breeder will not have their dogs listed on Craigslist or any other advertising site. I'd stray away from this. Not trying to sound like an ass, but it's one thing to invest in a BYB unknowingly, it's another to do it when you have the knowledge of what the red flags to look for and resources available to help you find the right kennel to go through. I would not go looking for a puppy with "the right price" in mind. Good quality pups may be more expensive, but typically, end up being less expensive in terms of behavior/veterinary care and it pays off go the right direction. I'd go with what you originally said you would do and look for a real breeder and avoid CL.

I have to agree with Heather on this one. If you're going to go with a puppy, do so with the knowledge that it is a true reputable breeder. Please don't support a BYB. There are too many dogs dying in shelters to support non-reputable practices. Please don't contribute to the problem.

I want to think you for help and suggestions. I do have a question. If I go to the shelter or humane society to get a dog. What would be the difference? I went to the humane society and their fee was high. I will not know the back ground of these dogs or if any issues are there. My friend got her dog from one of these places and the dog was a diabetic. I know craigslist may not be the best place. Everybody on craigslist is not shady people. I have taken all that was said into consideration; thank you for advice

Captain was a sick puppy, but I would not trade him for nothing. He is a happy and loving puppy. I know people mean well and I plan to breed one day. Everybody cannot afford to pay hundreds of dollars for a puppy. I know I can't. I have the love not resources to pay that type of money for a puppy.

If you have the love, not resources to pay for a puppy... Please do your part in supporting responsible practices such as a shelter, animal control, or a rescue where those dogs are in immediate danger rather than supporting someone doing a disservice to the breed.

If you go to a shelter you are a saving a life, if you purchase from someone selling puppies on Craigslist you are contributing to the problem and lining the pockets of someone who isn't a steward of the breed and who is only contributing to the health and behavioral issues we are seeing today with irresponsible breeding. That person selling puppies isn't someone you should support. That's the difference.

Also, please keep in mind that the initial fee for the puppy is a fraction of the cost of ownership. All the love in the world can't pay for food, toys, vet bills, etc...and getting a puppy instead of adopting an older dog automatically ups the cost. Rounds of shots, fixing, and more. An adopted dog will likely have its shots and be fixed. Adoption fees may seem like a lot, but they barely cover the costs for the shelter to give the dog the necessary care. Just food for thought

I would never make fun of our say someone was dumb for rescuing a dog.. That is something that shows they are a very caring person... I dont understand how people rescuing dogs dont support BYB.. They are taking the dogs they breed.. I do feel bad for all those dogs i really do.. And im not saying i would never rescue a dog but im saying if someone already found a pup they like even though they find out its a BYB who are we to tell them they are making a mistake... The BYB are goijg to sell the dogs no matter what.. Why not take one knowing your bringing them to loving home.. I know this is senstive subject.. And im sorry if i made anyone mad with my opinion but thats just how i feel about that..

Ericobeasto wrote:

I dont understand how people rescuing dogs dont support BYB.. They are taking the dogs they breed..

The reason those who advocate or are involved in rescue discouraging purchasing from BYBs is because BYBs are the ones who are actively breeding and placing dogs in homes which the majority of the time are not an appropriate fit. They are also mass producing dogs without regard to hereditary diseases or structural issues not to mention temperament. Purchasing a dog from a BYB gives them another reason to have another litter and continue what they're doing. NOT purchasing from them and instead supporting a reputable breeder or shelter is saving another dog and making space for another unfortunate dog to be able to be adopted.

I see a clear difference.

Think of it this way:

Buying from a BYB: Providing the humans who run said BYB with the notion of "Hey, I can do this all year and get money from it! Why would I even want to spend any of this money doing those stupid tests?!? This just keeps proving that there are people out there who will buy pups - so supply and demand says I should continue..."

Rescuing a dog: Your funds actually go to helping dogs - the rescues will usually only try to recover the amount of money they would need to spend to get their shots up to date and to fix them. They usually don't make much on their adoption fees apart from operating costs.

Supporting a BYB ensures there will be more and more "unwanted" puppies that will only end up in the shelters and rescues. Supporting a rescue is making sure your money will go towards rescuing more dogs that owners couldn't/didn't want to keep for whatever reason.

I think there's a big difference between BYBs and Rescues/Shelters. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your own opinion, but the biggest factor is whose pockets the money go into - that could very well start or end a pandemic of unwanted animals...

Just my

I understand both ur points and i agree wit u now.. I just think the name BYB is thrown around to loosely.. If someone doesn like a breeder they call them a BYb

I was under the impression that BYBs are breeders that don't do / show their dogs or do anything to "better the breed". Most (not all) tend to not be very knowledgeable of the breed, and they're pretty much in it just for the money.

We got Stark from a BYB (before we knew what a BYB was), and if I could do it all over again and get the same dog, I would've wanted him to come from a reputable breeder. We would've saved a fair amount of money until this point, that's for sure. And I don't know how his parents tested for their eyes/hips/elbows (since I'm 100% sure the people I bought them from probably didn't even know they existed), so now I'm in a gamble with respect to what issues he'll be facing as he gets older. I would've gladly spent hundreds more to have a little peace of mind that the parents have X elbows, hips, and eyes...

Want to point out, we got Siku from a not so great breeder. She gave me all the sweet talk of why she doesn't show, but why that's okay. I didn't even know about asking about testing then. Then she seemed like a fine breeder with only a few dogs. Now I TOTALLY regret giving that lady any of my money. Don't get me wrong, I love Siku to death and wouldn't trade her for the world, but I got to see what giving my money to a small scale BYB produces. She is totally in it for the money and now just 2 years later she has over 30 siberians that she breeds and a few malamutes. It's sickening. I now refer to her as a puppy mill, because that's all she does is produce puppies to make a profit and usually has at least 5 litters at a time.

My sister in law's sister decided to breed their mix breed dog to a pit mix simply to make money (they were very honest about that fact). They ended up with a litter of 11 and made a few bucks off of them, so they plan on breeding again even though they do no health testing and didn't even bring the puppies into the vet to get their puppy shots! So think hard if you really want to promote that kind of breeding. They won't stop until people stop buying from them. Plus CL really doesn't allow breeders to post puppies for sale. It is against their rules though so many people do.

Also getting a dog from a rescue or shelter in no way is the same as getting a dog from a irresponsible breeder. Yes, you are getting the aftermath of what they bred, but you're not supporting them with your money. Shelters and rescues don't pay people for their dogs. They get dropped off and all you're doing is saving the dog, not supporting the BYB who bred it.

But the OP seems to forget that there are responsible breeders out there who show or work their dogs, get the correct health tests done, and do a good job socializing their puppies before they go off to their new homes. So buying from a BYB or getting a rescue is not the only options. Check out the Siberian Husky Club of America's website. They have a page that lists breeders by state. Contact those breeders and if they don't have a litter they can usually refer you to another breeder in the area who does.

And BTW reputable breeders prices on pet quality puppies ranges a lot and you may be able to find one that sells their puppies for relatively cheap. I know one breeder near me sells her pet quality (ones not going to be shown or bred) for $450 which is pretty cheap to me considering all the money she spends on health tests, showing her dogs, and finding good stud dogs.

Ericobeasto wrote:

I understand both ur points and i agree wit u now.. I just think the name BYB is thrown around to loosely.. If someone doesn like a breeder they call them a BYb

I think anyone who health tests the appropriate tests for ANY dog they're breeding, has a clear and implemented socialization protocol, knows their lines, and produces only the soundest, best candidates of the breed (for work or show) is a reputable breeder. Anyone who doesn't, is a BYB to me. If you're going to produce, produce the best. Don't produce for a cool color or pattern or "off leash ability" or frivolous things of that sort.

Kristina, your dogs are beautiful. I just figured out what BYB means. I think it is easy to label a person. I think there are good and bad in any situation. I bought my sister a dog from 2 different “breeders” with “papers” Both of them was not honest if you were to ask me. She loved her dogs. But I would not deal with them again. I surely don’t think every BYB is shady, I think you can find good ones that care. I read a lady ad and I quote “I am not a breeder, I am at home and I love my dogs and puppies. They are UTD with their shoots and well cared for.” She was up front, and I appreciated that from her. I am sure we can go on and on about this subject. It seems to be a touchy one. I am sure we can agree to disagree and respect each other opinions.

I'm sorry - if you bred two dogs and produced puppies - you're a breeder. Ther is no getting around that.

People who say things like that are trying to get around the stereotypes that breeders get. They're trying to be more "righteous".

Breed animals you're a breeder.

Since we are giving our 2 cents. For every dog breed a shelter dog ends up dead.

Lordbroll wrote:

Since we are giving our 2 cents. For every dog breed a shelter dog ends up dead.

Brian, with respect to you, do you have anything to back up this claim? I'm not saying you are wrong, I am genuinely asking.

There is such a thing as responsible breeding. Now that I am in the show world, I am learning really fast the major difference between the dogs that are bred correctly and for purpose and those who are not. I love rescuing, I think its fantastic and I think those who rescue have big hearts. I work in rescue when I can, and I have picked up dogs and helped them, but I still love to show and I hope to better my breed by creating healthy dogs in an attempt to breed out genetic disease. As much as I am sure you disagree with breeding, there can be great reasons for responsible breeding.

The moment we stop breeding responsibly all together, the moment we no longer have distinguished, healthy breeds.

Lots of stats here: http://www.animalfolksmn.org/facts.html

3 million dogs sold from just "puppy mills"

4 million dogs euthanized annually in shelters

And it makes sense that a puppy sold is one less home available for a shelter dog.

Fair enough, I was just asking

Is there really something wrong with wanting to create a sound dog though? I disagree with puppy mills and BYB as much as anyone, maybe more - but I believe its important to breed for health and temperament.

I have a rescue, that is how I fell in love with this breed, but I think there are more ways that one to help the Siberian breed.

A post I read on Fartbook last weekend seems fitting for this page.


A Letter from a Shelter Manager - anonymous in North Carolina

I think our society needs a huge "Wake-up" call. As a shelter manager, I am going to share a little insight with you all...a view from the inside if you will.

First off, all of you breeders/sellers should be made to work in the "back" of an animal shelter for just one day. Maybe if you saw the life drain from a few sad, lost, confused eyes, you would change your mind about breeding and selling to people you don't even know.

That puppy you just sold will most likely end up in my shelter when it's not a cute little puppy anymore. So how would you feel if you knew that there's about a 90% chance that dog will never walk out of the shelter it is going to be dumped at? Purebred or not! About 50% of all of the dogs that are "owner surrenders" or "strays", that come into my shelter are purebred dogs.

The most common excuses I hear are; "We are moving and we can't take our dog (or cat)." Really? Where are you moving too that doesn't allow pets? Or they say "The dog got bigger than we thought it would". How big did you think a German Shepherd would get? "We don't have time for her". Really? I work a 10-12 hour day and still have time for my 6 dogs! "She's tearing up our yard". How about making her a part of your family? They always tell me "We just don't want to have to stress about finding a place for her we know she'll get adopted, she's a good dog".

Odds are your pet won't get adopted & how stressful do you think being in a shelter is? Well, let me tell you, your pet has 72 hours to find a new family from the moment you drop it off. Sometimes a little longer if the shelter isn't full and your dog manages to stay completely healthy. If it sniffles, it dies. Your pet will be confined to a small run/kennel in a room with about 25 other barking or crying animals. It will have to relieve itself where it eats and sleeps. It will be depressed and it will cry constantly for the family that abandoned it. If your pet is lucky, I will have enough volunteers in that day to take him/her for a walk. If I don't, your pet won't get any attention besides having a bowl of food slid under the kennel door and the waste sprayed out of its pen with a high-powered hose. If your dog is big, black or any of the "Bully" breeds (pit bull, rottie, mastiff, etc) it was pretty much dead when you walked it through the front door.

Those dogs just don't get adopted. It doesn't matter how 'sweet' or 'well behaved' they are.

If your dog doesn't get adopted within its 72 hours and the shelter is full, it will be destroyed. If the shelter isn't full and your dog is good enough, and of a desirable enough breed it may get a stay of execution, but not for long . Most dogs get very kennel protective after about a week and are destroyed for showing aggression. Even the sweetest dogs will turn in this environment. If your pet makes it over all of those hurdles chances are it will get kennel cough or an upper respiratory infection and will be destroyed because shelters just don't have the funds to pay for even a $100 treatment.

Here's a little euthanasia 101 for those of you that have never witnessed a perfectly healthy, scared animal being "put-down".

First, your pet will be taken from its kennel on a leash. They always look like they think they are going for a walk happy, wagging their tails. Until they get to "The Room", every one of them freaks out and puts on the brakes when we get to the door. It must smell like death or they can feel the sad souls that are left in there, it's strange, but it happens with every one of them. Your dog or cat will be restrained, held down by 1 or 2 vet techs depending on the size and how freaked out they are. Then a euthanasia tech or a vet will start the process. They will find a vein in the front leg and inject a lethal dose of the "pink stuff". Hopefully your pet doesn't panic from being restrained and jerk. I've seen the needles tear out of a leg and been covered with the resulting blood and been deafened by the yelps and screams. They all don't just "go to sleep", sometimes they spasm for a while, gasp for air and defecate on themselves.

When it all ends, your pets corpse will be stacked like firewood in a large freezer in the back with all of the other animals that were killed waiting to be picked up like garbage. What happens next? Cremated? Taken to the dump? Rendered into pet food? You'll never know and it probably won't even cross your mind. It was just an animal and you can always buy another one, right?

I hope that those of you that have read this are bawling your eyes out and can't get the pictures out of your head I deal with everyday on the way home from work.

I hate my job, I hate that it exists & I hate that it will always be there unless you people make some changes and realize that the lives you are affecting go much farther than the pets you dump at a shelter.

Between 9 and 11 MILLION animals die every year in shelters and only you can stop it. I do my best to save every life I can but rescues are always full, and there are more animals coming in everyday than there are homes.

My point to all of this DON'T BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER PETS DIE!

Hate me if you want to. The truth hurts and reality is what it is. I just hope I maybe changed one persons mind about breeding their dog, taking their loving pet to a shelter, or buying a dog. I hope that someone will walk into my shelter and say "I saw this and it made me want to adopt". THAT WOULD MAKE IT WORTH IT.

Here4thePics wrote:

A post I read on Fartbook last weekend seems fitting for this page.


My point to all of this DON'T BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER PETS DIE!

Hate me if you want to. The truth hurts and reality is what it is. I just hope I maybe changed one persons mind about breeding their dog, taking their loving pet to a shelter, or buying a dog. I hope that someone will walk into my shelter and say "I saw this and it made me want to adopt". THAT WOULD MAKE IT WORTH IT.

Len, if we got rid of all breeding where would that get us? Nowhere. Without the decent breeders who do it for the right reasons, we'd have a ton of Siberians walking around with HD and JC (not that there aren't plenty anyway)...No one is going to convince a BYB to quit making money. So, even if the responsible ones stopped breeding you would be left with a bunch of people doing it for the WRONG reasons. How is this any better?

Any of the breeders I stay in close contact with, my mentors even, they keep tabs on the puppies they have sold and some won't even allow that dog to be in the name of the owner until they have altered the pet and gotten its shots. Not all breeders are bad, and not all are irresponsible. if you truly value your lines and the dogs, you do your absolute best to watch where your pets go and keep your lines clean and safe.