If all you Ladies know so much about breeding Huskies, you should be in the business, your selves! You could put all of us "Puppy Mills" as you call us, out of business. And I have news for you AKC does not let Puppy Mills stay in the AKC breeding business. They have pushed them to CKC. I am though wasting time with you "know it all Ladies", now. I have a life, and I am not going to waste it on you guys! My final words are still "Get A Life"!

I will be in the "hobby" in a few years, when I have a dog who is worthy of creating offspring.

Once again - breeding shouldn't be a business.

The AKC is a keeper of records- they are not the dog police nor the puppy mill patrol- No one forces any breeder to use their services or choose another service. The thing that pushes many 'breeders' away is the required DNA testing of all stud dogs that have been used more than 7 times.

I do plan on breeding in the near future, but it will not be a 'business'- but it will be with dogs that are of good breed representation, proven in the show ring, on the trail, and health tested. Now I'm off to continue living my life with my dogs- and stop feeding the troll

PGILLEY35903 wrote:

If all you Ladies know so much about breeding Huskies, you should be in the business, your selves! You could put all of us "Puppy Mills" as you call us, out of business. And I have news for you AKC does not let Puppy Mills stay in the AKC breeding business. They have pushed them to CKC. I am though wasting time with you "know it all Ladies", now. I have a life, and I am not going to waste it on you guys! My final words are still "Get A Life"!

Just as an fyi, this forum is becoming more popular each day, every single thing you have stated on here just goes to shows your incredibly blatant lack of knowledge you have about breeding huskies, and just the breed in general. It also shows potential clients your demeanor about being questioned about your practices, what with lashing out to the public and throwing around derogatory terms as you did.

Basically, I would just like to thank you for making it easier for others out there to see what sort of person you really are, and hopefully nobody else out there that reads this will EVER buy from a kennel like yours, who's in for the "business" because that's the only thing you "appreciate".

Jeez, the other respondents weren't nearly as bad as you... Oh, and also, PuppyLov isn't that great of a name of a kennel - imo, it just goes to show you're in it ONLY to make puppies, puppies, and more puppies...

Lots to think about because of this thread, I'm sure. Thank you for stopping by and trying to "reason" (although ALL you did was bully), and I'm really sorry you're still in "business".

*Fez accent* Good day, I say... GOOD DAY!

PGILLEY35903 wrote:

If all you Ladies know so much about breeding Huskies, you should be in the business, your selves! You could put all of us "Puppy Mills" as you call us, out of business. And I have news for you AKC does not let Puppy Mills stay in the AKC breeding business. They have pushed them to CKC. I am though wasting time with you "know it all Ladies", now. I have a life, and I am not going to waste it on you guys! My final words are still "Get A Life"!

I think the people on here know enough about breeding huskies that they know not to be in "business" as you put it.

The AKC does not prove a dog is properly bred, only that it's pure bred. I'm guessing your 100+ huskies are pushing that limit though.

3 litters in one day? Just...wow. How on earth can you have well socialized, well cared for puppies?

Wow.. where this has gone.. lol

What I can say is this, while yes we all would prefer that all breeders had the level of love and care that we all talk about (few litters a year, very well socialized, kept till the rigth age, genetic testing, lifetime genetic health warranty, etc), but this comes with a price (higher cost of puppies that not all can afford and also much longer waits for a puppy). With that being said, there are some "back yard" breeders who push out more puppies, at a lower cost with not quite the same level of care (but still do care greatly for the breed and individual puppies) and sell them basically "as is" (i.e., normally 1week or 3days to have your vet find something wrong to have it replaced) which actually do a decent job and keep to the breed standard. This is the type of breeder I got Maya from, and it was part I that I didn't know all the right questions to ask, I wanted a gray female with blue eyes and many of the better breeders did not have them available for long time periods, and that I had a short time window to get my puppy that work well for my schedule to be home the proper amount of time for the first few weeks which better breeders just had a wait longer then the time when I had the proper amount of time to be around the youngster to be fair to them. Had I known everything about the breeder before I was on site would have I used them? I'd like to say no, but the truth is I could have walked away as I didn't have a deposit down and was paying full price upfront and taking my pick of the 3 left from the litter but I still felt comfortable that they knew what they were doing and I was not getting screwed or anything. Maya has turned out just fine, and I may even consider getting my second sib from the same breeder when the time comes (although I am looking at the option of a more reputable breeder as the time frame of when I want the 2nd is much longer down the road)


Now the breeder we have been discussing in this thread I would have to say is not in this category of "back yard" breeders who truly care and keep to the standard. Looking at their site, if I didn't know beforehand that they were a husky breeder I would have guessed they were breeding Malamutes or some type of mix of the two just by size/looks of their dogs, and some clearly look overweight (maybe it is the picture, the fur, or just a big dog, but no matter the case it is not a picture I'd put on my breeding webpage for just this reason). I would never consider getting a dog from Puppy Lov nor would I ever recommend them to a friend looking for a sib With that said i'm sure plenty of people buy from Puppy Lov, and many/most are happy with the dog they get, but their are way to many red flags in what I and many others look for in a good breeder (not saying even a great breeder like we all want to see) to risk it.

MayaDog wrote:

Wow.. where this has gone.. lol

What I can say is this, while yes we all would prefer that all breeders had the level of love and care that we all talk about (few litters a year, very well socialized, kept till the rigth age, genetic testing, lifetime genetic health warranty, etc), but this comes with a price (higher cost of puppies that not all can afford and also much longer waits for a puppy). With that being said, there are some "back yard" breeders who push out more puppies, at a lower cost with not quite the same level of care (but still do care greatly for the breed and individual puppies) and sell them basically "as is" (i.e., normally 1week or 3days to have your vet find something wrong to have it replaced) which actually do a decent job and keep to the breed standard. This is the type of breeder I got Maya from, and it was part I that I didn't know all the right questions to ask, I wanted a gray female with blue eyes and many of the better breeders did not have them available for long time periods, and that I had a short time window to get my puppy that work well for my schedule to be home the proper amount of time for the first few weeks which better breeders just had a wait longer then the time when I had the proper amount of time to be around the youngster to be fair to them. Had I known everything about the breeder before I was on site would have I used them? I'd like to say no, but the truth is I could have walked away as I didn't have a deposit down and was paying full price upfront and taking my pick of the 3 left from the litter but I still felt comfortable that they knew what they were doing and I was not getting screwed or anything. Maya has turned out just fine, and I may even consider getting my second sib from the same breeder when the time comes (although I am looking at the option of a more reputable breeder as the time frame of when I want the 2nd is much longer down the road)

This is the same trap that many people looking for a puppy fall into. Even those who "know better"... they rationalize reasons why this breeder is "OK" and are worth supporting. Sure they may not be "the best" but they care and they this and they that... It's not going to make the breeder any better the more anyone rationalizes. There have been times where I have been thrown into a situation and have been offered puppies from various people that I know weren't raised terribly, had a least some socialization, parents seemed to be physically healthy and temperaments were nice. But I can't support someone who brings puppies into the world just because they have a male and a female. Someone who doesn't test their dogs. Or someone who doesn't even have a real "reason" to breed. The only people who should be supported are those who go above and beyond for their dogs and puppies. Each of us has their own idea of "responsible" breeder but to know what makes someone ethical and responsible and to continue to entertain the idea of the "cheaper" alternative is doing a very big disservice to themselves and to the breed.

There are so many Huskies in rescue, and yes, that includes puppies. Meredith is the perfect example of a recent puppy adoption. Rodeo was very young, as was Melissas red girl, Asia when they were adopted. The truth is that these people are never going to stop breeding. Or at least not anytime soon. But the more people are educated, the more people take measures to avoid puppymills, BYB's and others... The less money lines their pocket and the closer they are to closing their doors.

So I went to The kennel today , And I am sorry to say that you are a sweet sweet lady Mrs. Gilley, but your standards are not to my liking . And My beliefs coincide with my group here on IAHT. your dogs were very sweet . all 15 or how ever many there were. I just dont agree with how you run things and I don't believe the ethical definition of breeder fits you. I'm sure people are fine with the way you do things, but it just doesn't suit me . I won't go into details about my visit here, but as someone who isnt biased at all and wanted to give you a chance to redeem yourself, And I visited as a prospective buyer . and What i saw pretty much falls into what they are saying even if you do not believe what we believe. there is a reason breeders should show. I wn't be purchasing one of your puppies but thank you for the opportunity to come meet your sweet dogs. If anyone wants to know more feel free to PM me.

Kaitlin,

I think you made a good decision here, from what she said and looking at Puppy Luv's website they are not what you want to get involved with. Keep looking an I am sure you will find a breeder that you feel comfortable with. I do urge you to not 100% rule out any back yard breeders who do not hold up to the all of the standards that many here on IAHT require. But just make sure you ask questions and make sure they are legit, care about their dogs, the puppies, and also the buyer of their dogs and see if you are comfortable. My guess is your not looking to get a show dog but rather a pet and plenty of wonderful Siberian huskies come out of BYB that don't meet every standard asked for here. Now is their slightly more risk? Yes, but if you do your homework before buying, it is likely not much higher.


Of the about 10 local Huskies owners I have meet since I got Maya, 3 got theirs as rescues (which are a lot more work then a puppy in most cases), and only 1 got their pup from a breeder which would satisfy the requirements many on these forums. They are all great well behaved dogs (well beyond one of the rescues who still needs a lot of work around other dogs and being left alone) and none of us who used reasonable back yard breeders would push people against them as long as they feel comfortable with the particular breeder (as many BYB can and do meet all but one or two of the long list of requirements we look for in an ideal reputable breeder)

I just read this whole thread and I just have to say holy cow. We were lucky finding Bane and I have recently been in contact with his breeders. We found him and another litter mate of his off of Craigslist and the girl was just trying to sell them for her mom and dad. I have SO many questions now for the breeder and was able to find their Facebook page. Unfortunately, their website is no longer available :/ Thank you for all the insightful thoughts and comments. Luckily we felt comfortable and were happy with him at 7 weeks old when we went and picked him out. All that matters is that he's healthy and he's very well loved around here.

And now off into the wonderful world of the Internet to see if I can find his parents OFA information. Oi vey...

MayaDog wrote:

I do urge you to not 100% rule out any back yard breeders who do not hold up to the all of the standards that many here on IAHT require.

We recommend these standards for a reason. We have already addressed your previous post, and it's not right to advocate going to breeders who do not do all of the health testing. You are lucky that Maya is healthy right now, but how do you know that she will remain that way? I almost look at Ghost (and Shadow, but we knew what we were getting into with her since she's a rescue) as a ticking time bomb, because I have no idea what genetic issues have been passed on. Yes, you will never completely eradicate genetic diseases, but doing genetic testing and only breeding the highest quality and proven dogs will greatly reduce instances of disease. If you continue to advocate going to backyard breeders, you are only validating their irresponsible practices and perpetuating the problem.

MayaDog wrote:

\
I do urge you to not 100% rule out any back yard breeders who do not hold up to the all of the standards that many here on IAHT require. But just make sure you ask questions and make sure they are legit, care about their dogs, the puppies, and also the buyer of their dogs and see if you are comfortable. My guess is your not looking to get a show dog but rather a pet and plenty of wonderful Siberian huskies come out of BYB that don't meet every standard asked for here. Now is their slightly more risk? Yes, but if you do your homework before buying, it is likely not much higher.

Well, this is a forum and everybody is truly entitled to their own opinion and have free range to voice it, but, I'm just curious, did you give yourself some time to digest what both sides of the story was? I'm not really sure how you can condone buying a pup from a BYB when you have equipped yourself with the knowledge of what that entails. Sure, you could get a healthy pup, you could get a great pet, but putting that few extra hundred in to get one from a reputable breeder as a pet (not all their puppies go to show homes), in the beginning will most likely save you thousands in the long run? If there's a way you can guarantee a puppy from a BYB or puppy mill (b/c they're not really all that different), will not have any issues that could have been avoided by proper breeding selection, it would be really interesting to me. Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to come off mean, but from what I've learned, it's not worth it. But then again, I probably don't know everything, so please, do share. From my personal experience, for every one husky that comes out of BYBs who turn out to be healthy, there are at least 7 or 8 that end up with health issues. Those odds don't really work in the buyer's favour if you ask me...

The only thing that I would require of a breeder is that they breed to better to breed. If you are going to go out to get a puppy, that should be your first and foremost requirement. This, along the way of the parents lives, branches out to other things - health testing, showing, working etc. Those who breed their dogs because a) they're pretty, b) they're sweet, and/or c) they have a breedable pair, aren't going to be in it for the right reasons, no matter who tries to justifies it. If you really, really, REALLY want a BYB puppy, walk into the shelters - they're full of them! Although my personal preference would be to rescue a dog, but if it's not a viable option for me and I do end up getting a puppy, you better believe your heine that I'll be getting one from a reputable breeder. I wouldn't want to put myself in a predicament where I'm on my toes dealing with a multitude of health problems and overall risks I wouldn't encounter if I did it the right way;.

But, like I said, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Mine, personally, is listed here, and I also firmly believe that a person who educates themselves on something and then chooses to ignore it won't have the easiest way in life...

blueeyedghost wrote:

MayaDog wrote:

I do urge you to not 100% rule out any back yard breeders who do not hold up to the all of the standards that many here on IAHT require.

We recommend these standards for a reason. We have already addressed your previous post, and it's not right to advocate going to breeders who do not do all of the health testing. You are lucky that Maya is healthy right now, but how do you know that she will remain that way? I almost look at Ghost (and Shadow, but we knew what we were getting into with her since she's a rescue) as a ticking time bomb, because I have no idea what genetic issues have been passed on. Yes, you will never completely eradicate genetic diseases, but doing genetic testing and only breeding the highest quality and proven dogs will greatly reduce instances of disease. If you continue to advocate going to backyard breeders, you are only validating their irresponsible practices and perpetuating the problem.

Kinda-sorta jinx?

MayaDog wrote:

Kaitlin,
I do urge you to not 100% rule out any back yard breeders who do not hold up to the all of the standards that many here on IAHT require. But just make sure you ask questions and make sure they are legit, care about their dogs, the puppies, and also the buyer of their dogs and see if you are comfortable.

How can a backyard breeder be legit?? Please explain that to me, I would really love to know how that works. I don't understand how you can advocate going to a BYB, and openly calling it a BYB. People are called backyard breeders for a reason. I have a mutt who was bred because the owners wanted their male and female to have that "experience". She is a mutt. Because her parents were bred for the hell of it, she has hip, knee, and ANKLE issues at TWO AND A HALF YEARS OLD! Her vet estimates that she will be suffering from arthritis by age 4. HOW can you advocate for something like that?? You are very lucky your girl is healthy, and I pray she stays that way. Watching Kennedy run at the dog park for not even THIRTY MINUTES and then have to leave because she is LIMPING and IN PAIN breaks my heart. She can't run with me like she used to. I can't do anything with her that I can with Sheba and Ares. She has to stay home and miss out on hiking, going to the dog park, and going to meet ups because she runs until she hurts herself. How can you say people who breed "because they love their dogs" is okay? It is NOT okay, because puppies like Kennedy are born everyday. Kennedy will live in pain for the rest of her life. SHE has to pay the price for her owners GREED. Because that's what it is, it is plain GREED. How would you feel if your dog, who is not even an adult yet, cannot run and play as she pleases? How would you feel looking at your dog, and knowing she is going to be in pain for the rest of her life, because her parents just HAD to be bred?? How can you condone that?? How can you TELL somebody else to NOT rule them out!? You are throwing Kaitlin and anyone else who is looking for a new family member into the lions den.

Wasn't going to get involved but ^ Same issue with Kale. Left shoulder issues; he has a permanent limp. I can't run him at all, ever. Its sad; I feel like a terrible mom holding him back all the time. It rips my heart out. He was a BYB pup that was supposedly taken from his mom at 4 weeks; I got him at 5 weeks.

Most likely have the same issues with my Cloud. He came from a pet store, I got him at 4 months old. He gets tired so much quicker than Yuki and Link do and lashes out when Link or Yuki touch him or try to play after a day at the dog park, and even lashes out at me when I try to pick him up for anything, which I suspect is due to pain although we can't prove anything yet. He's only 14 months old. So I highly encourage anyone who thinks about giving a backyard breeder a second chance to think again.. because in the end it's not about the people raising them, its about the dogs they're producing.

Ok, so clearly my using terms that you all put on any breeder who is not the top of the line breeder being a BYB has maybe sent all you off on a frantic of rage.

Is a breeder who has 10-15 outdoor dogs in there huge back yard with a 3walled and roofed enclosure for their kennels, sufficient exercise a temperature controlled birthing/first few weeks area for new pups, socializes pups with other dogs/children to some extent, has a local vet who is a member of the family who does all their vet stuff, tests their dogs for hips/eyes, been breeding for 20+ years and brings in studs and new females pups to keep good lines but does about one litter a month offering nothing but a 2buis day health guarantee really that bad? They are a BYB, a decent one, one many would trust, but no they are not nearly as good as the breeders you all say should be the only ones to trust.

Every dog is a ticking time bomb to some extent (even with the best breeding and knowledge and screening), and not perfect breeding does make things more likely to have some issues (some breeders do a very bad job and make things much worse), but not everyone who is breeding AKC sibs in their backyard knows nothing about what they are doing. Some of them are not nearly as bad as many of you portray all of them (many are, which is why I specifically said many times to do your homework and ask questions before considering them, missing 1 or 2 guidelines, depending on what ones, can still result in a reasonable breeder to consider)

Once again read my posts, I clearly state asking questions and making sure they know what they are doing before doing anything, missing a single guideline (or maybe 2) depending on what ones can still lead to a breeder who is not going to do you any harm from considering.

I guess I would have to wonder which 'guideline' to ethical breeding would you be willing to turn a blind eye to to justify someone's irresponsible breeding program. Sure you breed enough you will see something pop up in the form of genetic issues, but when done right the odds are well in your favor to choose a health tested quality dog over someone's pets they threw together to make some money.

Is a breeder who has 10-15 outdoor dogs in there huge back yard with a 3walled and roofed enclosure for their kennels, sufficient exercise a temperature controlled birthing/first few weeks area for new pups, socializes pups with other dogs/children to some extent, has a local vet who is a member of the family who does all their vet stuff, tests their dogs for hips/eyes, been breeding for 20+ years and brings in studs and new females pups to keep good lines but does about one litter a month offering nothing but a 2buis day health guarantee really that bad? They are a BYB, a decent one, one many would trust, but no they are not nearly as good as the breeders you all say should be the only ones to trust.

If you are having one litter a month with only 10 - 15 dogs then you either 1. aren't keeping your females anywhere near each other because eventually they would come into heat in sync or 2. Have a lot more than 10 - 15 dogs. Perhaps 10-15 females...

Either option doesn't sound good to me.

Each guideline isn't there because it's okay for 1 or 2 to be overlooked. Each guideline is there because they are all essential questions of a responsible breeding program. I get that there are varying levels of BYBs out there. I've said that before myself. However, when you are breeding, you need to PROVE that you have a right to be bringing more puppies into this world. Do you not see all the huskies in shelters that all would make WONDERFUL family pets? If a breeder isn't breeding for a reason, if the breeder isn't doing so responsibly, what gives them the right to bring more puppies into the world? Just because someone wants a puppy? That's not a good reason.

And I'm sorry-- one litter a month is a business. I wouldn't support anyone who breeds their dogs to make money. I would never do that to my beloved animals.

Just my

I have to agree with most. I don't approve of any BYB. Lycus also came from one, before I really knew any better, and he ended up being really tall and lanky. Right now he's healthy, but I have to constantly watch his knees because he's too tall. He's constantly going to the vet for check ups, otherwise he can end up with arthritis as well at a young age.

Back yard breeders are in no way a good thing in my opinion.

khollon wrote:

Because I definitely am and a little disgusted. I new at picking breeders and she says she's check out but.. Just look.

http://www.puppylovkennels.com/


Then this one seems better but I still am wary. I haven't found one that does the eye and hip scoring. But some have health guarantees

.racoonmountainsiberians.com

Help me :/ I live in Alabama , but I will travel for a great belter dee in the south east !

judgeing by the last few pages im going under the assumption that you haven't found a breeder yet. the red flags that immediately stood out to me at first glance is, 1) i see nothing listed on their site even remotely related to health checks or hip and eye exams. even if they are avaliable but im just not seeing it... that is something that should be easily avaliable.

2) i dont see much of any registration papers or pedigree papers... she/he does give tons about their dogs being of "champion" bloodlines, but not showing the proof to back it up is... well questionable to say the least.

3) their males are 100lbs, for purebred huskies that is extremely overwaight. which bring's up all sorts of health concerns not only for her dogs but for the puppies she is producing.

4) i see nothing about them either showing/raceing/agility completions or something simular with their dogs. as much as i hate to say it because i find the phrase to be annoying, it doesn't look like they are doing anything to better the husky breed itself. the amount of breedable dogs they have on site is questionable aswell, 90% of the reputible breeders kennels i've been to have at most 3 sires and dams on site and they arn't produceing nearly the amount of litters a year as these guys are.

however i will give them this, they're kennels do appear to be fairly clean and well cared for... atleast in the photos they've provided.

I'm not going to judge these people or label them as anything, but i would suggest you look elsewhere... there's just too many concerns about they're dogs. also a big turn off to me is the design of their website, it's very unprofessional... reminds me of one of my 4 year old niece's drawings sitting on the fridge. but that's just more of a pet peeve of my own, rather than a red flag.

try asking around im sure there are others here who know of a few worth wild breeders in your general area.

Clm wrote:

also a big turn off to me is the design of their website, it's very unprofessional... reminds me of one of my 4 year old niece's drawings sitting on the fridge. but that's just more of a pet peeve of my own, rather than a red flag.

Just my personal preference as well, but the website makes me want to puke. It's SO busy it's distracting and the level of professionalism is sad. I agree with what you said.

I also don't like that the first sentence of every paragraph seems to be about money. It seems to be a reflection of what is most important...

I also didnt like how for full registration its only 600.

Ericobeasto wrote:

I also didnt like how for full registration its only 600.

I'm paying 1200 for a full registration dog...because the high price tag means you having breeding rights - but even that is on a co-own for me so that the breeder can monitor what I'm doing. In this case it's to make sure I'm not studding the dog out before testing to just random people.