I have 55 notifications. Lmao. An thank you for the info Jeff this thread has been *very informative.

khollon wrote:

this escalated quickly.

Right when i seen the breeder post something last nite. Im lile o shit. Im gonna wake up tr next mornig to some drama lol..

I lile this forum a lot.. And i learn sooo much on it. But i have to say people have really really strong opinions on it.. There are certain topics i try not to talk about because it just gets carried away.. But im just going to say something real quick about this thread and i might loose some respect of some people.. My dogs in the future are all going to ether be rescues or from ethical breeders... But it sucks to see so many people bash someone.. Everyone says no lne crossed the line or this or that.. But if someone belives in something there not going to change their mind very easily... No point to gang up on her and just rip her a new one... I could be wrong this is just my opinion but i would of locked this thread right when the breeder postd sometjing on it.. I knew this was going to happen. Its not hard to see it.. Im not saying the is right but this is just drama added to the forum.. But i still lile this forum and will still be on it. Hopefully i didnt loose to much respect

And btw I love link . He is beautiful I love his face XD I fell in lve with your. Avatar or profile pic , whatever it is calle here .

I think the ethos of pure bred dogs generally and about the (working) Siberian Husky specifically needs to be implemented in the (heated?) debates about breeders more often.

Whether or not we know it our choices in acquiring a pure bred puppy are necessarily involved in this ethos.

YOU CAN LOCK THEM !?!?

[begin derail] https://www.itsahuskything.com/t8588-scrapbook-link-the-siberian-husky?highlight=link [end derail]

I feel like such an idiot when I get on here sometimes .

Eric, I get where you are coming from - But, how responsible are we if we allow people to knowingly purchase from breeders who, in our standards, are less than responsible?

Personally, I thought this was one of the most well natured breeder posts I've seen on IAHT. I'm happy to say that, but I think sometimes we forget what the real reason is for threads like this - its to educate and inform. I don't approach things as "My dogs are better because they show" I approach them as, my dogs have a higher chance of being structurally sound and healthy because I chose to buy my male puppy from a well established breeder. (My female is a rescue plagued with issues.)

I didn't becoming an ethical breeding advocate overnight. I started on the other side and had to learn a lot along the way, I thank this forum for that. Even when I was an uneducated brat, they never let up.

Now, on the basis of plenty of dogs being great that aren't shown...well, I happen to know of a woman, who I have become very close to who breeds and not every dog of hers is CH. This is due to limited funds, because she has Muscular Dystrophy. That just means it takes longer to CH her dogs because she doesn't have thousands to campaign them. I Don't think her dogs are unworthy, I love them. This is different. She still shows them, she still carefully plans her pedigrees, she still health tests each and every dog (including CERF's every year). That being said, her progeny are shown when show quality and they do well. She doesn't show all the time, but that doesn't make her a bad breeder. She also has 23 years in Siberians and has CH many, many, dogs. My next puppy will be coming from her bitch and a very well establish sire. I couldn't be more happy. So, the "not showing" thing, is a moot point.

As far as big name breeders who produce woolies. Every kennel has the potential to produce a woolie and many have. That being said, they don't INTENTIONALLY do it. Sometimes, the genes just line up as such. Just as JC can do that from two tested parents. Doing something intentionally and doing something on accident are completely different things.

I won't be taken seriously, because I am one of the "elitist show types." However, I know quality and I know what I believe ethical to be and I will stick by that.

I really do just need help . Snohomish wasn't even in the post to begin with . I was asking about another kennel as an example wondering what I need to look for and stay away from . I was driving this bus and lost control of the wheel. I ran us off a cliff, If you will.

No you didn't Kaitlin - You are learning. No need to apologize for that.

khollon wrote:

I really do just need help . Snohomish wasn't even in the post to begin with . I was asking about another kennel as an example wondering what I need to look for and stay away from . I was driving this bus and lost control of the wheel. I ran us off a cliff, If you will.

Don't ever feel bad for asking a question - I'm sorry if I came on too strong. But nothing about this reflects badly on you... If anything, it just proves how prepared you are willing to become before jumping into it. If it wasn't for people like you, then nobody would be any wiser.

Yep, you have all the issues and points/counterpoints now you can make a more informed decision, that's all. Being an active contributor on here is a great education and a great way to formulate your thoughts and convictions. People here are educated and experienced and here to help, both publicly in threads and privately in messages. Two of the most respected people in this thread and on this forum have taken lots of time privately to answer my questions and guide me properly with Link.

Not to mention, you shoulda saw the sh*$storm I started when I first joined because I took exception to people saying "you can't do that with a Husky." I still take some exception to this, but the point is that you learn to read through the tone of threads and start to filter out the good and the bad content. A lot of my issues weren't even really breed related so much as age related.

People with conviction seem to bite, it especially seems this way for newcomers with little to no experience. It's the nature of the beast.

The point though is that conviction in this case comes from knowledge and integrity and good intentions. Barking up trees around here ain't always pretty and you don't always get what you want. But we wouldn't do it if there wasn't something valuable up there in the first place.

seattlesibe wrote:

It's all just text. I'm pretty sure nobody's punching holes in walls or taking medications

Well, I am on medications, but that's neither here nor there

khollon wrote:

I have 55 notifications. Lmao. An thank you for the info Jeff this thread has been *very informative.

In the time it took me to leave my office, run past the store, get home, and let the dogs out I had 37 notifications, all on this thread. Lots of people had something to say on this one.

khollon wrote:

I really do just need help . Snohomish wasn't even in the post to begin with . I was asking about another kennel as an example wondering what I need to look for and stay away from . I was driving this bus and lost control of the wheel. I ran us off a cliff, If you will.

I will third that you have done nothing wrong. You are trying to educate yourself so you get the healthiest and best representation of the breed possible. For that, we all commend you. There are a lot of people out there who are breeding for the wrong reasons, and those folks have alerts set up through Google and other mediums so that when their kennel is mentioned somewhere they are alerted. This is far from the first time it's happened on here and it won't be the last either. This generated some very good discussion on what is ethical and what is not, and I hope that you and anyone who comes after you can learn from this. Yes, we had a couple of people who got emotional and defensive, but no one was truly being slanderous or mean. We just wanted to show you why this particular kennel is unethical so you can learn to spot the red flags as you continue to search for a good kennel.

blueeyedghost wrote:

seattlesibe wrote:

It's all just text. I'm pretty sure nobody's punching holes in walls or taking medications

Well, I am on medications, but that's neither here nor there

I've actually taken insulin twice while reading and responding to this thread, so I guess I'm guilty too. But I am drinking a delicious smoothie and Link is in napland.......so life is good

seattlesibe wrote:

blueeyedghost wrote:

seattlesibe wrote:

It's all just text. I'm pretty sure nobody's punching holes in walls or taking medications

Well, I am on medications, but that's neither here nor there

I've actually taken insulin twice while reading and responding to this thread, so I guess I'm guilty too. But I am drinking a delicious smoothie and Link is in napland.......so life is good

All the heated discussion getting your blood sugar out of whack?

I legitimately do take mild narcotics most of the time for some pretty severe (and not really fixable at this point) orthopedic issues in my foot and ankle. I did pop a couple before replying on that one too, but that's more that the dogs need a good long walk today.

But now we are hijacking the thread, though I think we could use a little comedic interlude...

Yep, ditto. And nope, really just the smoothie and the sinus cold

I don't have an issue with you discussing what you think is an ethical breeder as such (even though I disagree) however I do have an issue with bringing up kennel names. Is there really any need? When people start doing that people get hurt and personally I feel it's uncalled for. I'm not exactly a new member either since I joined last year, but have been inactive for a while. I have plenty of experience with huskies and other northern breeds, but I am very well entitled to my opinion just like anyone else. My opinion has been created through years of experience and I am always researching new health issues.

It all boils down to this...no one can dictate what anyone else does with their own breeding program. Does this breeder have sound, healthy animals? Does this breeder care for her dogs properly? Does this breeder have countless happy clients? Does this breeder stand behind every single pup that comes from her program? The answers to these questions are all "yes". I've personally seen the hard work, passion and dedication that has gone into this kennel. This is her calling and she is damn good at it. Only narrow minded individuals would judge someone and tear their work apart before talking with them, listening, and coming to a common ground...that ground being a sincere love of dogs. Period.

When posed in the format of "do you all think we should purchase a puppy from _________________,?", there should be no reason to refrain from saying "no" and giving subsequent reasons if the criteria held by the people being asked is not met.

The dilemma for the original questioner then becomes "do I buy into this criteria, or not?" That is the real period.

Does this breeder have sound, healthy animals?

Who decided this? A geneticist? Someone who looked at pedigree after pedigree of dogs who produced JC, CD, HD, Seizures and MANY other genetic diseases?


Does this breeder care for her dogs properly?
By whose standard is this? What I deem proper is different than someone else - I think proper is species appropriate diet, with lots of exercise, supplementing, living in my house, spayed and neutered if not great specimens...etc.


Does this breeder have countless happy clients?
So do plenty of puppy mills and pet stores - that doesn't mean the dogs are healthy and in standard.

Does this breeder stand behind every single pup that comes from her program?
Good for her. However, all the ethical breeders I know do that, so it's a moot point in this case.

No one was attacking her ability to take care of her dogs, we are upset because not every dog is a quality breeding candidate and well, many other things I have already said that I don't feel like repeating.

It's easy to sit behind the computer and judge call yourselves "we" as in "we" do not agree. All the sudden the entire forum is one person, more like a bunch of colorblind sheep following the path of their leader.I disagree with you Jeff. You DO NOT know this breeder. You have NEVER seen her dogs. Therefore your "opinion" is based on judging a book by its cover. If only people chose more carefully on the human beings they create as carefully as Snohomish chooses her breeding's, the world would be a few stupid people less.

Everyone. EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion on this forum and not one persons opinion is held higher or above someone else.

Breeders and breeding is a hot topic on this forum (on all dog forums, actually) and as such not everyone will agree. No one in this thread is trying to "dictate" in what direction someone is going with their breeding program. The only thing that was done in this thread was people gave their own advice and opinions on breeders and what THEY felt was "right" or "wrong". Everyone has different standards - that's fine for one person to feel that X breeder is good and Y is bad while another person feels the opposite. There is also NOTHING wrong with people expressing WHY they feel a certain breeder is not up to par and there is also nothing wrong with people expressing why they feel the breeder is.

Not one person on this board can fault another person for asking questions and seeking advice - there is a ton of information out there on breeding and breeders and it can all be very overwhelming and confusing which is why people ask about what to look for, what the red flags are etc.

I like rule #1 of the forum here : "1. Here we prefer clarity to agreement. Obviously not everyone is going to agree on a topic; here we prefer to talk out our differences in a respectful manner to ensure mutual understanding and respect."
Not everyone will agree with others who feel a breeder is or is not good and vice versa. That's fine. explain WHY each party feels that way but stay respectful.

So far this thread has been really good and there has been no personal attacks on any breeder or their dogs (that I've seen). It's fine to discuss breeding practices and why each person feels the way they do about them but be respectful of others.

I am not judging a breeder by its cover or in this case website, but I also don't believe in airing peoples dirty laundry all over the internet.

Quote :

It's easy to sit behind the computer and judge call yourselves "we" as in "we" do not agree. All the sudden the entire forum is one person, more like a bunch of colorblind sheep following the path of their leader.I disagree with you Jeff. You DO NOT know this breeder. You have NEVER seen her dogs. Therefore your "opinion" is based on judging a book by its cover. If only people chose more carefully on the human beings they create as carefully as Snohomish chooses her breeding's, the world would be a few stupid people less.

No one is judging anything. I've been watching this thread all morning and people are just trying to explain what qualities you want to look for in a breeder. First being the health checks. Second being what the dogs look like, the amount of litters, things like that. Then people look at the kennel and how its kept. I have no doubt that your friend's kennel is kept in great condition. We are just trying to point people in the right direction.

I'm sorry if you've taken offense to this.

Thanks Roxy. Principles can be expressed in merely words/text and judgements can be made on them. Opinions and recommendations can be based on them. Certainly purchasing a living creature can be based on them.

Convictions about principles will leave some in and some out. The judgement stops there, really.

I'm almost certain more people than not would recommend this kennel with no problems and that's great. This happens to be a place where the consensus that has been vocal has shaped up into the NOT category based on principles which are either clearly stated or rightfully inferred from the kennel.

It's really that simple.