Right on Megan, I think that qualifies as an exception though, doesn't it? That's the funny thing about qualifying "breed nature", there is always gonna be "......except with special training or socialization."

-Around cats or small animals not recommended- is a very common thing on the list of bullet points, followed by "unless raised with them as puppies." Right?

That is what gives me hope, not the warning about their nature, but the "unless......" part, which in my view reads: "unless you make them a more well rounded, balanced dog."

These exceptions mean new possibilities and areas in which our dogs can be more dog than just their breed.

11 Weeks is soooo far from teenage rebellion...

At 11 weeks, any progress is good, since youve had a whopping 21 days with this dog.
By 11 weeks, Soshanna knew commands and liked to fetch. Mixie was still learning stairs every day like some retarded ass version of Drew Barrymore in 50 first dates.

Every dog is a little different, but the first 6 months is really just crate/potty/socialization. The extras are a bonus..

Im happy youre eager, but you have an infant right now. Teenage rebellion will blow.you away. It comes around a year.

K9_Eric wrote:

By 11 weeks, Soshanna knew commands and liked to fetch. Mixie was still learning stairs every day like some retarded ass version of Drew Barrymore in 50 first dates.

Omg.

So far off topic but that is the funniest thing I've heard in a while

Poor Mixie. If I didn't know any better I'd say you didn't like her that much haha

Its not that i dont like Mixie. I love my big loveradork as much as Soshanna and Panzer, and I always have, but by 6 months old, I had legitimately come to the conclusion she was mentally deficient. The best part, was unlike a handicapped child, you can make fun of a retarded dog. She came around, but ill never forget all her retard moments

seattlesibe wrote:

I am not trying to prove something Liz or Matt (?). I am trying to reject what I routinely see as an unfortunate fatalism with how we talk about Huskies as a breed and express my optimism that I think there can be more ways for a Husky to be a dog than simply being a Husky. I am also trying to shed light on the many inconsistencies involved in what parts of a so-called Husky essence we accept and what parts we reject. There are constant contradictions involved in the ways in which Husky "purists" defend Husky nature/essence. These contradictions, like any contradiction, are areas to challenge and learn and grow and evolve. They can reveal more dynamic ways of being and thinking.

More ways for a husky to be a dog than a husky? I wasn't aware they were another species apart similar yet apart from the canis lupis familiaris. Are you going off of your own opinion of what a dog should be, or is there a guide book somewhere I missed of what a basic, vanilla dog is? Seriously, I'm curious as to where you're base the essence of the 'dog' from. You say you want to take a husky and make it un-husky and turn it into a dog, but what is the difference?

Your description of 'breedism' sounds like people's general misconceptions of a certain kind of breed due to ignorance and you're zeroing in on favoring nurture over nature to the point of trying to override one with the other. You can't take the nature out of the dog unless you breed for a specific trait or mannerism over many generations. It's how you create a breed, through genetics to receive desired traits to perform a specific job. It's comparable to a constant stream of hormones that can make you cranky enough to spit fire and you don't even know why you're so revved up all the time.

I'm not saying you can't teach a husky to walk off leash or not eat your cat, but you're going to run up against a lot of frustration depending on how strong a drive the husky has in following its nature and the drive will never completely disappear in one dog's lifetime.

…And tantrums are normal. Mine used to throw one anytime a new person ignored him, he couldn’t run up to meet a new dog, I put him in his kennel to leave, or I picked him up. He doesn’t quite throw tantrums anymore, but he still hates being held and growls to let me know he’s not pleased about being removed from whatever he was doing. The only way your puppy knows how to show frustration or anxiety is to throw a tantrum. Just be consistent, patient, and provide positive experiences and feedback for good behavior.

Hey guys don't mean to whine, but could you take it easy on using the word 'retarded'? I've noticed it by a few different people on other topics as well. I have a family member who has been called that as a derogatory term his entire life by jerks. He has cerebral palsy. And even though you're not referring to a person, it still has the same sting.

And by the way people can and do make fun of disabled kids and adults all the time and use that word. Which is why I cringe every time I hear or see it.

Kavik_the_Havoc wrote:

seattlesibe wrote:

I am not trying to prove something Liz or Matt (?). I am trying to reject what I routinely see as an unfortunate fatalism with how we talk about Huskies as a breed and express my optimism that I think there can be more ways for a Husky to be a dog than simply being a Husky. I am also trying to shed light on the many inconsistencies involved in what parts of a so-called Husky essence we accept and what parts we reject. There are constant contradictions involved in the ways in which Husky "purists" defend Husky nature/essence. These contradictions, like any contradiction, are areas to challenge and learn and grow and evolve. They can reveal more dynamic ways of being and thinking.

More ways for a husky to be a dog than a husky? I wasn't aware they were another species apart similar yet apart from the canis lupis familiaris. Are you going off of your own opinion of what a dog should be, or is there a guide book somewhere I missed of what a basic, vanilla dog is? Seriously, I'm curious as to where you're base the essence of the 'dog' from. You say you want to take a husky and make it un-husky and turn it into a dog, but what is the difference?

Your description of 'breedism' sounds like people's general misconceptions of a certain kind of breed due to ignorance and you're zeroing in on favoring nurture over nature to the point of trying to override one with the other. You can't take the nature out of the dog unless you breed for a specific trait or mannerism over many generations. It's how you create a breed, through genetics to receive desired traits to perform a specific job. It's comparable to a constant stream of hormones that can make you cranky enough to spit fire and you don't even know why you're so revved up all the time.

I'm not saying you can't teach a husky to walk off leash or not eat your cat, but you're going to run up against a lot of frustration depending on how strong a drive the husky has in following its nature and the drive will never completely disappear in one dog's lifetime.

…And tantrums are normal. Mine used to throw one anytime a new person ignored him, he couldn’t run up to meet a new dog, I put him in his kennel to leave, or I picked him up. He doesn’t quite throw tantrums anymore, but he still hates being held and growls to let me know he’s not pleased about being removed from whatever he was doing. The only way your puppy knows how to show frustration or anxiety is to throw a tantrum. Just be consistent, patient, and provide positive experiences and feedback for good behavior.

Thanks for this post.....

I do believe there is more to a dog than its breed, yes. If we accept even a weak version of a breed nature, that is not going to be exhaustively what a dog is capable of being through nurturing things in their development.

You are absolutely right, I am not a nature fatalist or nature determinist. I believe through nurturing ( and by the way this stark nature/nurture binary is extremely problematic and way too stark but I'm gonna roll with it for now) new possibilities and proactive encouragement that we can teach our dogs how to be more versatile than their breed might warrant on its own. This is distinctly unrelated to eliminating or training away breed qualities in all ways imaginable. I do not think it is possible to train away a Huskies need to run/pull completely, for example.

I have zero, absolutely not a trace of interest in Huskies not being Huskies. I do have an interest in teaching them ways of being that prove to be a bit more well rounded and balanced than simply being a Husky. For most of us they are our dogs first and we need them to be our dogs in the context of our lives with our rules and our patterns. It's not all sled pulling and digging. We shape them into our dogs and we, hopefully, allow their specific Husky traits to shine through when it is appropriate. And let's face it, it is not always appropriate.

It's not like we get a Husky and then say "phew, now he's just a Husky, cool. Better go buy a sled." We still need to teach them and encourage them and socialize them and train them and it is possible to have Huskies that don't eat cats or children and who are not always running as fast as they can away from you and pulling you or anyone on a sled or as though you were on a sled.



Oh, Eric, I know 11 weeks is not teenage rebellion. Someone above mentioned that when that time comes all the training I am doing now will be tossed out the window. I was just responding to that

wpskier222 wrote:

Hey guys don't mean to whine, but could you take it easy on using the word 'retarded'? I've noticed it by a few different people on other topics as well. I have a family member who has been called that as a derogatory term his entire life by jerks. He has cerebral palsy. And even though you're not referring to a person, it still has the same sting.

And by the way people can and do make fun of disabled kids and adults all the time and use that word. Which is why I cringe every time I hear or see it.

Jen, thanks for mentioning this and calling it out. I fully support your protest.

Cheers.

wpskier222 wrote:

Hey guys don't mean to whine, but could you take it easy on using the word 'retarded'? I've noticed it by a few different people on other topics as well. I have a family member who has been called that as a derogatory term his entire life by jerks. He has cerebral palsy. And even though you're not referring to a person, it still has the same sting.

And by the way people can and do make fun of disabled kids and adults all the time and use that word. Which is why I cringe every time I hear or see it.

100% agree - I work students who are LD, CI, EI and various other disabilities - this is a sensitive thing for me.

wpskier222 wrote:

Hey guys don't mean to whine, but could you take it easy on using the word 'retarded'? I've noticed it by a few different people on other topics as well. I have a family member who has been called that as a derogatory term his entire life by jerks. He has cerebral palsy. And even though you're not referring to a person, it still has the same sting.

And by the way people can and do make fun of disabled kids and adults all the time and use that word. Which is why I cringe every time I hear or see it.

Sorry, Jen!

I should definitely be more sensitive toward this. Thanks for pointing that out.

No worries. It's a pretty common saying, and most people don't mean to offend. Thank you.

I still don't understand where you're going with this.

In their brains they have no knowledge of a sled or pulling. They are an active strong breed of dog who requires more exercise than quite a few other breeds. My Aussie has no knowledge of cattle or sheep from birth... But has the mental capacity to control and sort groups- thus putting him at an advantage to do things like herding. He is very "control oriented" and games/puzzles help utilize this part of him so he doesn't go stir crazy. You can do whatever you want with the dog to drain their energy/mental power to help them be well-rounded. It has nothing to do with sleds or sheep. You aren't "taking the husky" out of them... You're giving them what they need in order to NOT be completely wound up at all hours of the day. Dogs who are that way- AREN'T "Huskies" those are dogs who are livening in a perpetual cycle of being unfulfilled mentally and physically.

I couldn't agree more Kristina, rendering the accusations of such when I say I want my Husky to be well rounded and more balanced than simply his breed would dictate that much more inaccurate and misled. Thank you.

Read my arguments and my posts carefully: I'm not advocating "taking the Husky out" or saying that it is possible. I'm defending myself against accusations of such.

When I've said it is possible for a Husky to be versatile, well rounded, and balanced and not just a Husky through and through all the time, some folks got the unfortunate and misled impression that I was 1) hating on Huskies and their nature/essence, 2) confusing my Husky for a Lab or wanting him to be a Lab, or 3) suggesting that my stance is anti-nature and trying to nurture my Husky into something completely unHusky.

None of which is true.

I'm using the sledding aspect to be literal and dramatic. It is clearly the ethos of the breed and physically and physiologically the historical purpose of the breed and so I am using it as a manifest shorthand for Husky nature/essence, while also using it to call attention to how infrequent and exceptional it actually is these days for a Husky to have anything to do with sledding, furthering my argument that we use our Huskies nowadays the majority of the time for things that are completely unrelated to their history, their physiology, and their breed purpose.

To speak of Husky nature/essence without the sledding bit is shortsighted. So it makes for good dramatic point making

I've been quiet on this for a long time, but I really have to say something.

Jeff- you are making an issue where none exists in my mind. You argue in circles, using big words, but in essence (I'm sorry) say nothing.

I don't think one person has disagreed with you in saying that huskies can be trained to do whatever it is that you want them to do. They are simply genetically pre-disposed to certain behaviors and in training them to do behaviors that counteract that, you'll find it's a bit harder. It doesn't mean they CAN'T, it means that for the average owner, getting them to perform reliably will be incredibly difficult.

I'm growing increasingly tired of this debate simply because you choose to ignore when people make valid points and only argue the small details that allow you to talk more. Your posts are condescending ("read my posts carefully") and continue to rehash issues that have been addressed already. Train your husky to do whatever it is that you want him to do. No one is suggesting that you can't or shouldn't. Just do so realizing that there are certain traits BRED into this breed (thus making it a breed) that mean certain objectives will be more difficult to achieve. Read: more difficult. Not: impossible. In doing all this, you are assuming a risk that many of us are simply not willing to take. Not because such things are "impossible because this is a husky" but merely because they are safer for our dogs and we feel they have a healthy and happy life without them (being offleash in a non-fenced in yard for example).

If all the misconceptions about huskies are true, and these are the misconceptions on which you base your arguments, then huskies would not be able to achieve Canine Good Citizen Awards or be therapy dogs. They obviously are... and can be... so your argument is simply unnecessary and I truly fail to see why it continues to be an issue.

In regards to your OP: Link is merely a few moths old. He's young, insecure, and scared. As puppies, dogs need and want to be with their pack. When they are left alone, they cry. Like any 5 year old child would. It is your job as his owner and his master to make him feel more secure. You've been given plenty of suggestions on how to do that in this thread already, so anything else I have to say would be redundant.

Whenever Bandit throws a tantrum, he does this "limp dog" thing and then I wind up half dragging/half sliding him down the hallway for a time-out.

I've seen so many city dogs do this, they just plop down in the middle of the sidewalk and refuse to move, especially bulldogs lol. Lots of little dogs too. I watch people and they are patient for a while then start dragging, of course, with the bulldogs, they just plant all four feet and pull back.

Hi Tori,

Your criticism is well received.

It simply continues to be an issue for intellectual curiosity and exploration. It's clearly a hot button issue that evokes passionate responses and thoughts. There is much to learn and absorb through it.

There is honestly not much it has to do with in a practical sense, and certainly not a personal sense. I feel like it has all in all been a good, ongoing discussion that has unfortunately gotten vigorous due to emotional triggers and personal associations.

That said, I fully support calling it a stalemate and invite the mods to scrap it all together. When these types of discussions can not remain abstract it gets messy. This has gotten messy and it's unfortunate.

That's all I got.