People are never afraid of Q out in public. To be perfectly honest, he's better behaved in public than in our home. He's super friendly and just loves all people and dogs. He gets mouthy when he's frustrated or excited and this is usually at home. For instance, he goes to daycare twice a week. On the mornings he goes, we don't say anything about going until we are ready to leave the house, otherwise, he will start talking up a storm and get too excited to calm down and then drive us crazy. Once we tell him he's going for a "ride" or to "school" or to see "Smokey" (his best friend at daycare who is also a sibe) he starts with the grumbling. He'll then come up to me and usually mouth my hand. It's very soft and it's as if he's holding my hand to lead me to the door.

By no means and I saying it's ok to put up with the bad behavior. We're working on similar issues as we speak. Seems like it never ends, but we keep having to remind ourselves that he's still a puppy. There are peaks and valleys in the training process. I guess it's just up to each individual as to what behaviors they can and can't live with.

Yes, Q is masked. He had the most incredible goggles when he was about 12-15 weeks, then they faded what he has now. His color is constantly changing! Good luck with Link!

Haha, tough love Husky style.

Part of why I don't accept the breed essence/nature determinism is because nowadays that essence/nature is mostly irrelevant, or at best needs to be seriously restricted and limited. If there were only 10 Husky owners, how many would have them solely for sledding and working?? 3 maybe??

As pets and companions they need to be dogs first, then Huskies. The Husky part should be the supplemental aspect. Yes, breed brings specific parts of their needs and personality that need to be nurtured and released, but they are still dogs first. We have put them in this amazing predicament of our lives as companion pets, who MAYBE get to do what they were actually meant to do. But that purpose is by far the exception.

We should expect more than "oh he's a Husky, sorry. Nothing I can do."

I hate to point out that of your 10 husky owners maybe 3 have dogs that will actually work in harness. Like I was trying to point out to you, you actually got a Siberian that was bred to standard, and with dogs that have a strong background in breed function. Many others are not, so while some may be perfectly content couch potatoes and never experience the need to have more fulfillment than that..others may not. Essence/Nature only go as far as their breeding allows, and these days is less and less as more and more people are breeding for the wrong reasons. Stop having adult expectations for a pup who needs time to learn. Have expectations that each day your pup learns and gets a step closer to the end result you desire. Push to hard and they are more likely to stop trying to reach expectations you set way too high. Like any baby they explore with their mouths, and it does take time to curb that and time is the key there. No dog, of any breed or breeding, comes right from momma's teet knowing your expectations. So you have to allow yourself some wiggle room and growth in learning, or you'll continue to be frustrated with the process.

That is excellent criticism and I remind myself of that everyday. Which is why I framed it in my OP as partly just wondering if what he is doing is normal for his age. If so? Then I'm happy. He is my first Husky and my first puppy as an adult so u have little to no practical precedence.

Interesting point about breed potency too. Thanks. So I'm dealing with more Husky than most because of his lineage?? Hmm, well I guess that makes my job more difficult, indeed.

She isn't saying you are dealing with more husky..she's saing that your dog was bred to standard and of should expect the things that come from having an in standard dog, Even the SHCA warns about these things.

Also, I don't believe anyone ever said anything about mouthing or nipping in public being "husky" behavior...it's not at all. My dogs do not do that...they do however get pissed if I leave me somewhere alone, where they can seems. But I don't take my dogs anywhere they can't go. They stay at home if they aren't allowed in.

...they do however get pissed if I leave me somewhere alone, where they can seems. But I don't take my dogs anywhere they can't go. They stay at home if they aren't allowed in.


like Megan said, leave them home if they cant go in , there is no reason they should be tied outside and left alone - its takes about 2 seconds to CUT a rope/leash whatever - way to risky for my taste!!!! maybe he can learn good behavior at home and then be taken out - but still never tied out in front of a store - I never understood people doing that - and it almost makes me want to take the dog and hold it away from sight until the owner comes out and freaks - and then say well what did you think mght happen if you left this beauty out here all alone - i think the same with little kids - but common sense stops me from actually doing it!!! My dog was my baby and she was treated that way - they count on us to take care of them - and thats what we need to do!! I wish you luck on your training....... and him a long happy and safe life!! It also seems like you are trying to prove something - talking about the breed -

While I appreciate the disagreement about a dog being tied up outside of a business, that is not what this is about and it is frankly inappropriate to express disagreement anymore at this time.

I've already stated that I acknowledge and accept the risk involved. I think there is in fact a good reason to at times tie up a dog outside of a business. The fact that I am going to occasionally tie my dog up outside of a business is a non-negotiable premise. It is not the problem I want to discuss.

If it is even more risky to do this with a Husky, then once again I ask the question: what about the other ways in which we can not allow our Huskies to be Huskies all the time? Why do we justify some ways in which we disallow our dogs' natures to manifest themselves and not justify others?

My OP started with a very practical issue: I want to do this with my dog, how can I best accomplish my goal? It turned into a back and forth about breed nature/essence, which on one level is unfortunate because it wandered off topic in a sense, but on another level is wonderful because it is a topic I have a great deal of intellectual passion for and try to utilize in my relationship with my dog.

I am not trying to prove something Liz or Matt (?). I am trying to reject what I routinely see as an unfortunate fatalism with how we talk about Huskies as a breed and express my optimism that I think there can be more ways for a Husky to be a dog than simply being a Husky. I am also trying to shed light on the many inconsistencies involved in what parts of a so-called Husky essence we accept and what parts we reject. There are constant contradictions involved in the ways in which Husky "purists" defend Husky nature/essence. These contradictions, like any contradiction, are areas to challenge and learn and grow and evolve. They can reveal more dynamic ways of being and thinking.

That is my goal with these discussions about breed essence/nature. I want to move beyond breed determinism because I know it is theoretically possible and there is real world proof that it is possible. Possibility equals growth and change.

I want to move beyond "you can't do that with a Husky" or "well he's a Husky that's just what they do, sorry."

I believe there is more possibility than that. And if I personally have a Husky, my Link, who is more of standard than Joe Husky on the street, then fine, my work is going to be even more difficult. But I don't see that as a reason to give up and cave in I see it as a reason to persist even stronger given my convictions, the first of which being that I will provide my Husky with appropriate avenues to have his nature manifest itself as much as I can, but as my companion pet, I need him first and foremost to be a well behaved dog and I believe I can accomplish this.

This is a predicament that the majority of Husky owners share because we for the most part don't own them for sledding/working purposes. Hence, there are some very salient ethical considerations to be evaluated and some very serious issues that we must face. If the purists had there way, full force, the majority of us would be stripped of our dogs because we wouldn't make the cut to qualify for owning a Husky. Simple as that. Accepting the nature/essence idea wholesale to its full capacity would yield very severe consequences for the majority of Husky owners who just have their dogs so they can be dogs, albeit Husky dogs.

To reroute this to the OP, I don't feel that I should just accept that my dog is going to throw tantrums forever when I tie him up outside of a cafe because he is a Husky. I believe there are some more fundamentally basic dog psychology issues involved that I can come to understand, implement, and use to make this situation doable and pleasant for me and him. I do not accept breed determinism in this instance. I have already taught Link to be calm and quiet on public busses and I feel that this situation is in a similar genre of problem.

If I never exercised Link and he started eating through my walls at home, then yes, I would accept breed determinism in this instance: Huskies need exercise......

If I hated the sounds dogs make and complained about Link being vocal, then I would accept breed determinism in this instance: Huskies talk......

I hope this is clear.

The majority of the behaviours you have compared to throwing 'tantruns' aren't really husky issues but dog issues. Puppies are insecure and will be anxious when left alone. All puppies mouth and jump up. Any dog wkll destroy the house if under exercised, huskies are higher risk of this due to their energy level but there ade many other high risk breeds in this regard as well

You've described two types lf tantrums one being a dog issue of wanting to be close to you (crate/tied up) the other bein lf wilful disobedience (dog knows a cue you are asking but talks back instead of listening). The latter is a husky issue and something you simply have to accept. Huskies are stubborn dogs that thiink 'what is in it for me' whereas many other breeds are excited just to comply. Now that doesn't mean you can't have an obedient husky, it just means the dog will need to learn to be obedient (vs jusf learning what is being asked) and you will need to learn how to be more motivating than the squirrell rrunning by.

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My OP started with a very practical issue: I want to do this with my dog, how can I best accomplish my goal? It turned into a back and forth about breed nature/essence, which on one level is unfortunate because it wandered off topic in a sense, but on another level is wonderful because it is a topic I have a great deal of intellectual passion for and try to utilize in my relationship with my dog.

The reason it got off point, and the reason we've it let get off point, is because you're the one who directed it that way.

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They hate restriction, they want to run away from us all the time, they want to eat through our walls to escape, they don't particularly enjoy affection or interaction with their owners, they are aloof and stubborn.

There are only two aspects of the above statement that apply to my purebred. She doesn't enjoy restriction and she is stubborn. She is also young, and in her adolescent years, and this is common in all but the most complacent breeds.

I have never met an Aloof Husky. Ever. Plenty of Chows, but anytime I've met a husky it has always wanted to meet me, or my dogs, of it's own volition.

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If we accept that wholesale, then I think we should not have Huskies in Arizona, we should not sympathize with Husky owners who can't find housing because of breed restrictions, and we should not try to prevent our Huskies from running away from us or destroying our house.

There is a HUGE difference between a breed trait and a misconception.

There is no reason a Husky can't have the same quality of life or better in Arizona. That is a misconception about the breed. I think this forum shows that Huskies can thrive in areas like "The South", as well as humid areas of the world like Malaysia and Australia, or even to a lesser extent Montreal or Miami.

Another misconception about the breed is their destructive behavior, and thus the restrictions renters put on owning one in their houses or apartments. Any dog can be destructive or naughty when the handler isn't responsible in the first place (Training, exercise, rules, and boundaries). Bite reports being what they are many dogs have this rep, not just huskies.

Your last two examples also go right over my head, as I have zero idea of what you're trying to get at. Why wouldn't we want to limit an escape or destruction? It is in their instincts to explore and run, not to run away from home the first chance they get or destroy something out of spite. It comes from their adventurous nature, and why ANYONE would want to restrict or limit the thing that makes this breed so special is beyond me.

But like Megan said exercise will solve destruction. A responsible owner will have no issues raising a dog in a hot climate. A proactive person will limit the chance of a dog running off. A solid handler will set up rules and boundaries in the house.

All these things aren't breed traits, and in my humble opinion, are more on the owner and their commitment rather than the dog. The level of energy a husky has, it's ability to run for hours without looking back, ADVENTURE, it's stubbornness, the reason most of them pull, have a mind of their own, are just some examples of why some of us or all of us chose the breed to begin with. So why would we ever want to limit it???

You might want to, and that is your call, but I wouldn't expect the people who are so in love and passionate about these "special" qualities or quirks of the breed not to disagree, or defend the breed itself.

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If it is even more risky to do this with a Husky, then once again I ask the question: what about the other ways in which we can not allow our Huskies to be Huskies all the time? Why do we justify some ways in which we disallow our dogs' natures to manifest themselves and not justify others?

The ONLY time people on this forum are recommending not letting your "husky be a husky" or not letting true nature to manifest, and the reason this example keeps being brought up, is to protect the dog. It has little to do with the breed.

People are saying you shouldn't leave your pup outside of a trafficked area unattended because the breed is popular and could be stolen and sold in minutes. With how trusting this breed is to humans it would likely just go along with it.

You need to understand we don't know you, your training ability, or your life. What ever you decide to do is your choice. The people on this forum only want what is safest for your dog. That is the great part about this community. They barely know who you are, but they want the absolute best for your husky at all times. Link, though not as important to me as Ripley or Tika, is in my thoughts and I too would not ever want to read he was stolen.

They aren't "defending" the behavior. They are advocating caution on your part about the possibility of losing your dog.

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To reroute this to the OP, I don't feel that I should just accept that my dog is going to throw tantrums forever when I tie him up outside of a cafe because he is a Husky.

And you shouldn't. You should however expect it from an 11 week old dog.

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I am not trying to prove something Liz or Matt (?). I am trying to reject what I routinely see as an unfortunate fatalism with how we talk about Huskies as a breed and express my optimism that I think there can be more ways for a Husky to be a dog than simply being a Husky. I am also trying to shed light on the many inconsistencies involved in what parts of a so-called Husky essence we accept and what parts we reject. There are constant contradictions involved in the ways in which Husky "purists" defend Husky nature/essence. These contradictions, like any contradiction, are areas to challenge and learn and grow and evolve. They can reveal more dynamic ways of being and thinking.

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I believe a Husky can be more dog than Husky, especially if given appropriate outlets for their specific Husky needs.

Though I agree with the proper training and commitment you can "focus" a husky into more "Dog than husky". The difference here is 90% of our members don't want to. They ADORE the breed and all it's quirks. They don't see the things you see as flaws when your speaking about breedism.

My dogs are well trained. They walk politely beside me most of the time, they don't destroy the house, they don't try and kill my cats (others are fair game), they only mouth me no one else (rough housing), they stay away from me while I eat, and loads of other things that I deem socially acceptable behavior all dogs should have.

All the quirks about the breed is why I chose one, why I got one, and I would never try and remove them. Everyday is an ADVENTURE and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Personally, if I wanted a dog who always listened to me, protected me, or I could train into the perfect dog I would have picked a different breed (Lab, Chow, Pitbull respectively). I wanted a fun breed I could ski, blade, or run with. One that would get me out of the house. One that would make me smile and laugh anytime it so much as looked at me. One that had it's own personality and would complain or talk back to me. One that could open the back window of my car all by herself (She totally does). I wanted more than a dog, I wanted a friend.


~Chris~

Merch wrote:

The majority of the behaviours you have compared to throwing 'tantruns' aren't really husky issues but dog issues. Puppies are insecure and will be anxious when left alone. All puppies mouth and jump up. Any dog wkll destroy the house if under exercised, huskies are higher risk of this due to their energy level but there ade many other high risk breeds in this regard as well

You've described two types lf tantrums one being a dog issue of wanting to be close to you (crate/tied up) the other bein lf wilful disobedience (dog knows a cue you are asking but talks back instead of listening). The latter is a husky issue and something you simply have to accept. Huskies are stubborn dogs that thiink 'what is in it for me' whereas many other breeds are excited just to comply. Now that doesn't mean you can't have an obedient husky, it just means the dog will need to learn to be obedient (vs jusf learning what is being asked) and you will need to learn how to be more motivating than the squirrell rrunning by.

Bingo. Thank you. So he is in fact just being a normal puppy and I can take my approach accordingly. His stubbornness is persistent all the time and I chalk it up to "oh my darling Husky" all the time. I accept that as a given, and also accept that stubbornness will create frustrations for both of us.

Surprise, I'm a bit stubborn too Link and I are both Earth Signs.....

As I suspected though, the responses should have been "well he's a puppy so....." and I would have accepted criticism for age appropriate expectations.

I just can't accept all instances of " don't expect him to be a dog.because he's a Husky.". I very much want him to be a Husky and that's why I got him, but I also want so much more for him in due time and I'm trying to set him up to be as balanced and fulfilled as a dog as best and safely as I can given my lifestyle and my means.

To be fair Chris, it got on this sidetrack from post #2 which was a version of "don't do that with him, he's a Husky and Huskies can't do that."

That's the type of determinism I am taking exception to.

To be clear, I reject breed determinism and therefore I reject the notion that Huskies should not be in Arizona. I think they can and should be in Arizona.

But in saying that, I am supporting the idea that our Huskies can be more dog than Husky because I am not subscribing to the idea that a wholesale acceptance of breed function, purpose, physiology, and personality are all that we should expect from our dogs.

Part of breed determinism includes physiology, form, and function and a consideration of the historical purpose of the breed. That's where traits and qualities come from. If we accept this, which I don't, then there is a compelling case to be made that we should not allow this breed to live in a blazing hot desert. Huskies have thick coats, thick skin, and overheat regularly. Link overheats in 50 degree grey Seattle.

If we accepted it wholesale, then providing examples of individual success stories is not acceptable contrary evidence. That'd be like justifying the success of capitalism because some people have found a way to make it work for them. That doesn't meant that capitalism is ethically sound, it just means that some people succeed despite the ethical problems inherent to it. A happy surviving Husky in the desert would not negate a strict application of breed determinism across the board.

Is the destructiveness of Huskies really a misconception? We all know why they get this way, because they don't get proper exercise and energy outlets. Which is yet again reason to say that if we accepted breed determinism across the board then people who own Huskies who eat through walls would not make the cut. Most people won't make the cut. Therefore, most people who own Huskies shouldn't and we should have no sympathy for Husky owners who have problems finding housing. It might be based on a stereotype, but most stereotypes are based on real world occurrences that are true. Huskies have a rap for being destructive because most people who own them shouldn't if we were to accept breed determinism and apply it across the board.

I don't accept it and so I don't apply it across the board.

I am too aware of exceptions and alternate possibilities to accept such a thing across the board.

But people routinely pick and choose when to apply it when to not apply it and when it is thrown my way to say "don't do that with him he's a Husky" or "you shouldn't expect to be any different than just a Husky" it gets to me because there is no consistency in how we apply this scrutiny across the board.

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Jeff, he is a Siberian and this is common. The stubborn qualities are in this breed for a reason - they are not meant to be like Labs, they were bred to be independent and intelligent. It is VERY unlikely you will get the ever-obeying kind of dog out of a Siberian.

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To be fair Chris, it got on this sidetrack from post #2 which was a version of "don't do that with him, he's a Husky and Huskies can't do that."

Honestly I don't get that from Megan's post at all. She said Sibes were stubborn and it's expected. Stubbornness is a built in defensive mechanism in the breed. You will run into it every day.

She never told you not to work on it or it couldn't get better, or having a husky would prevent you from doing anything. She simply told you what to expect.

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To be clear, I reject breed determinism and therefore I reject the notion that Huskies should not be in Arizona. I think they can and should be in Arizona.

Yet you bring up the same examples time and time again, most of which are not breed limitations. They are misconceptions. Saying things like "a husky shouldn't live in Arizona" or "we all know pitbulls were bred to fight", only show generalized misconceptions about the breeds.

However if someone says "Don't let your husky off leash because it will run" it is different. I know you perceive it as us picking and choosing what parts of breed we accept and which we chose to ignore, but it isn't. It is simply Experience VS. Generalized Misconceptions .

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If we accept this, which I don't, then there is a compelling case to be made that we should not allow this breed to live in a blazing hot desert. Huskies have thick coats, thick skin, and overheat regularly. Link overheats in 50 degree grey Seattle.

They also have insulation and protection from the sun and heat. It works both ways here and you can't ignore that aspect to make a point.

Do they do better / are more comfortable in the cold??? Yes. 1000 times yes.

Can they live just fine, be content, and have a high quality of life in a place that has no snow? Yes. 1000 times yes.

Thats what makes this argument moot. It means nothing in terms of essence or breed. Experience tells me this because We go from -40C to +40C in Quebec (I'm talking windchill and humidity). My two stay out in -40 and they sunbath outside at +40.

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If we accepted it wholesale, then providing examples of individual success stories is not acceptable contrary evidence. That'd be like justifying the success of capitalism because some people have found a way to make it work for them. That doesn't meant that capitalism is ethically sound, it just means that some people succeed despite the ethical problems inherent to it. A happy surviving Husky in the desert would not negate a strict application of breed determinism across the board.

Where do you see it as an exception??? The boards show us it is not. A couple of members even live(d) in Arizona itself and were/are fine. Though I agree we are a very small sample size that doesn't mean it isn't true. We have members from Australia who frequent the board. They're Huskies have as high a quality of life as any others and I dare say between the climate and wildlife in the area it trumps Arizona hands down.

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Is the destructiveness of Huskies really a misconception? We all know why they get this way, because they don't get proper exercise and energy outlets. Which is yet again reason to say that if we accepted breed determinism across the board then people who own Huskies who eat through walls would not make the cut.

I'll say again, because you chose to ignore it. Any dog can be naughty or destructive without the proper guidance. Just as many boxers destroy houses as Huskies. It has little to do with the breed. So yes it is a misconception.

The worst thing my dogs have ever destroyed was a $250 dollar pair of sun glasses. My CAT does more damage to my house then my dogs ever have.

If your dog destroys something it isn't stimulated enough. If it is stimulated then it needs boundaries (crate). If it isn't good in a crate make a dog proof kennel or room it can be without destruction. All things a proactive person should do when raising a dog to limit destruction.

Are there dogs who have all that and still destroy walls or other things? Yes there are. Bella is a perfect example if Ceara will let me use her. Even she has gotten MUCH better with age and training.

So yes. I believe it is a misconception. That's my personal opinion. There is no reason my dogs should be destructive when I have total power over when and how they can be. Do I believe Huskies Bore easily and act out more so then some other dogs??? Yes. Again I have tools and the preemptive ability to plan for it.

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Therefore, most people who own Huskies shouldn't and we should have no sympathy for Husky owners who have problems finding housing. It might be based on a stereotype, but most stereotypes are based on real world occurrences that are true.

I find this line very very interesting.

So most stereotypes are based on real world occurrence that are true? However when we tell you

"Jeff you have a Husky, You can expect THIS, THAT, and THE OTHER THING" you flat out deny, refuse to accept it, or call it breedism.

Fine you said MOST, maybe this is the exception.... Maybe we are all unfairly pigeon holding our dogs. Then again maybe not. Maybe we have experience and know what is myth and what you should expect 99% of the time. Maybe you have a 1% dog on somethings, and good for you, but the general populace doesn't.

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Huskies have a rap for being destructive because most people who own them shouldn't if we were to accept breed determinism and apply it across the board.

Huskies? ALL DOGS have this rap. If any dog doesn't have the right up bringing it is going to be a terror. If you can't commit to an animal fully and provide for it in every way you personally can you shouldn't own any animal. point finale, pas d'excuse.

Some breeds are in the spotlight more as being "bad dogs". Huskies are one of them. There is however no such thing as a bad dog, only poor owners. Sure the stronger breeds, at times, require a stronger handler, but that doesn't mean they deserve any of the rep they have been given.

Especially we have proven time and time again on this board bite reports and police reports about dog attacks are very often poorly conducted or the breed is miss identified.

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But people routinely pick and choose when to apply it when to not apply it and when it is thrown my way to say "don't do that with him he's a Husky" or "you shouldn't expect to be any different than just a Husky" it gets to me because there is no consistency in how we apply this scrutiny across the board.

There is Zero, Zip, NOTHING you can't do with any breed without time, commitment, and know how.

The reason exceptions exist are because people went out of their way to teach and do it. I have nothing but respect for people who do that given they are going about it the right way and with total understanding of the risks they are taking.

But again, it comes down to what we are willing to say to people who come to this board. When a new member comes here asking "can I take my puppy off leash?" or "Why is my husky talking back and stubborn?" we are going to give the SAFEST and most appropriate answer for the well being of the dog.

I do allow my dogs freedoms I won't advocate or defend, so I avoid those threads. Does it make me a Hypocrite? Yes. Absolutely. Can I look at myself in the mirror and be happy with that knowing that maybe someone isn't going to lose their dog today because of something I said?

Yes. 1000 times yes.

All the community can tell you is what you can expect because of their Experience. Some of us have had Huskies, or dogs, our whole lives and understand the breed through and through. That means understanding the good and the bad, where it excels and where it falls short.

It isn't Breedism. It's an Idealistic point of view vs experience.


Take it however you want it Jeff. In the end it is your decision how you and Link are going to connect and co-exist. Your choices will shape your pup into what ever you need or want him to be. All the community is trying to do is warn you of the short comings so you can expect and plan for them, and live a long happy life with your pup. No one here wants anything but the best for Link, and though it may not seem that way, or things get argumentative or heated at times, it is the truth.

~Chris~

Jeff I know where you are coming from but I think you are in so deep into the issue of breedism that you cannot see the big picture.

When people say "don't do that with him he's a Husky" or "you shouldn't expect to be any different than just a Husky" or " Huskies cannot be leash free" Or "Huskies cannot live with cats they have to high of a prey drive". People are just trying to tell you what to expect starting fresh with the breed. Nobody is trying to attack you or the specific dog in question it's just their method of conveying that with their experience with the breed these are the things to expect going in. You are the "X Factor" as Link grows, that random ingredient which will help shape/mold your Husky TO BE Link.

I want an off leash Husky and I have been through this crap already with the he'll run/chase a rabbit and never come back blah blah blah. That is them just telling me "you are new to these parts, I have been around and in my experience if you stick to the nicely paved road over there you will be fine. You can take the dirt road but expect xyz on the way and godspeed." Nobody is trying to generalize you they just are showing the safest route that works. It's not impossible to train any dog to do specific things you would like. it's just some breeds have the skills in their kit when they start and others need to work harder to acquire them.

So now at almost 1year of age I can hike leash free with Thane, I took the dirt path, it was tough because he didn't start with the initial skills needed but I used the knowledge about xyz that people here and my trainer provided me with and I used it to my advantage so that he could acquire them over time.

So I understand what you are trying to get across but imo Chris is right .

thought this pretty much said it all when I saw it - who agrees??????

I agree with Megan on this. You really can't take the "Husky" out of a husky. As for being stolen, let me just add that my friend left her golden retriever puppy tied outside a coffee shop here in our area for just 5 minutes and he was gone, she never got him back! You can't take the chance, it's not worth it. I for one wouldn't take that chance with any of my dogs. But it is your right to do what you want, just know what the consequences could be.

Every purebred dog has their traits and characteristics. To expect them to not act on their instincts is like asking a bird not to fly, or a greyhound not to run. This is why when we decide to bring a dog into our family we must research these very traits and characteristics to determine if the breed will fit into our lifestyle. I have a 19 month old lab, I happen to love the breed for what they are, and my lab is way more stubborn then my husky. I adore my husky's personality, all of it, even the stubborness because I know that is what makes him a husky. He is smart and independent and he stills make a great companion. OF course you will find some huskies that will be great at recall, or less stubborn. In some the traits are stronger. In some less.

He really is beautiful by the way, just keep up with his training as you are, he'll probably always test you some, it's because their not only gorgeous but smart .

Tika wrote:

Are there dogs who have all that and still destroy walls or other things? Yes there are. Bella is a perfect example if Ceara will let me use her. Even she has gotten MUCH better with age and training.

So in skimming this thread I saw my name

I'm proud to report that Bella hasn't destroyed anymore walls since the stress of my father going in for his lung transplant has been lifted. She was extremely upset by that and I don't blame her. If I could have eaten the walls I would have too!

Anyway - the incidents about which Chris is speaking coincided with her hitting adolescence. I'm super proactive with my animals. Bella was at one time getting up to three walks a day (an hour each), several (3+) training sessions a day, getting her meals out of a treat ball and at least a 5 mile bike a few times a week when the weather permitted and she STILL ate through my walls.

Dude, its Seattle. If a dog goes missing, we launch a bigger search effort than we do for children. I tie my dogs out occassionally to go in places.

Chris as always you make my brain work overtime and for that I always respect you and am thankful to be on this forum with you.

You bring up such excellent points and counterpoints. For full clarity, I have never felt attacked or defensive on this forum ever, not for a second. Nor have I ever felt that I needed to attack anybody or be offensive.

The issue of what I've called breedism and the issue
of nature/essence hits me on a very intellectual level and thus my communication about it has a vigor to it that sometimes comes off as biting or sharp. It has been a drawback of mine for 15 years. Those of you who know me in other contexts on this forum know that I am just as silly and loving on our dogs as anyone else.

In light of disclose because it is relevant, I studied the philosophy of essence in graduate school (applied however to gender and sexuality) and primarily involved myself in debunking theories that support or rely on essence/nature, so anything that says "I am ____________ therefore I do/perform ____________" or "I do/perform ______________ therefore I
must be ______________" is what I focused on and deconstructed. I'll let yall fill in the gaps to how that applies to gender and sexuality and expressly do not invite you to go there here in this thread Nietzche's famous paraphrase "there is no being before doing" sorta sumsit up....sorta.

So, apply that to this whole discussion about breedism and Husky essence/nature and you can at least see how it is
contextualized in my mind. Granted, this discussion would be better suited for a Philosophy class than on a discussion forum populated with very passionate Husky owners.

If this is a case of an analogy gone wrong and I have completely gone awry, then I stand corrected, I concede, and I run away with my tail between my legs and my ears back. I will from now on only discuss harnesses, poop consistency, and how cute
and big Link is, and maybe Korra too.

I don't think of Husky traits as faults. Challenges yes, but not faults. I in no way want to train Link's Husky traits away. I want him to thrive on them in fact. The reason I bring them up in the way that I do is to call attention to the ways in which we all at some point or another require our Huskies to be unHusky. Every one of us in some way at some time needs to check or minimize the breed characteristics, if for no other reason than safety. We can't just let them be what they are all the time.

Irealize it has been perceived that I am bashing on Huskies or at least complaining about Huskies and that perhaps I want Link to not be a Husky. This is no doubt my own doing and a result of my own thinking through words and ideas and writing vomitously. This is an unfortunate perception and I apologize for my part in creating it.

This is not the case at all. What has been the case, and what I have reacted adversely to is when Husky nature is used negatively to create limitations of the sort "you can't do that with him because he's a Husky" or "well he's a Husky so he is going to do that, sorry I can't domuch about that."

If essence/nature is there in our dogs, a Husky essence/nature, then I do not want to limit it or get rid of it or train it away in my Husky. I do think there is a heavy price to pay in accepting such a thing and that there is a burden to take on in policing it and enforcing it. Husky essence/nature does seem to bring us very complicated and challenging issues, in a way that say Labrador
essence/nature does not.

Having a Husky simply as a pet or companion, something most of us do I would bet, highlights these challenges. Huskies are a lot of dog and they have very heavy requirements that many owners of them do not or can not meet; hence, their bad rap at times and their inclusion on restricted breed lists at
apartments/dog parks.

Chris you are absolutely right in that it is unfair to judge them on this because all dogs can be destructive not given their needed exercise. But because Huskies need a lot a exercise and the bar they set is high, the chances of meeting their needs is smaller. The chances of Huskies being "bad dogs" are higher than a lot
of dogs simply because meeting their needs is difficult and they have personalities that are at times very challenging to a lot of folks.

To be perfectly clear, I take no exception to a so-called Husky nature when it is in a positive form, as in "Huskies are this therefore______________." This just states that they have certain qualities and we need to respect them and utilize them. I respect Husky qualities very much and have no interest in denying my dog these qualities.

I do take exception to it when it is a negative form, as in "Huskies can't do ___________" or "I'm sorry I can't change ___________ because he's a Husky." This type of breed determinism is a bit too fatalistic for my tastes. This is what I mean when I say I want Link to be his Husky self, but I also want him to be so much more dog than just that.

I hope this clarifies things and illustrates what I've been thinking about with this issue.

I'm gonna go look at cute pics of new pups now.......

Cheers.

seattlesibe wrote:

I don't think of Husky traits as faults. Challenges yes, but not faults. I in no way want to train Link's Husky traits away. I want him to thrive on them in fact. The reason I bring them up in the way that I do is to call attention to the ways in which we all at some point or another require our Huskies to be unHusky. Every one of us in some way at some time needs to check or minimize the breed characteristics, if for no other reason than safety. We can't just let them be what they are all the time.

I still don't understand this... I think all of us embrace all aspects of our Siberians. .. Their need and love to run is often taken care of by "above average" exercise (such as off-leash runs in enclosed parks, or leashed runs, or some even scootering/biking/rollerblading.) Their intelligent nature is taken care of by utilizing puzzle toys, kongs, or extra "trick" training. Their shedding requires more grooming than the average low maintenance breed and as such quite a few of us invest in HV driers and other "home grooming" equipment.

These are all ways we embrace and nurture all aspects of our Siberians... No one is making our dogs "less Husky" we're just giving them the extras in life that they need in order to thrive and be happy. That doesn't make them less Husky.

I think you're expecting way to much out of an 11 week old puppy. My puppy is 11 weeks also, and she's the same way. ALL three of mine were at that age. They're puppies!

You can't train out their charecteristics. It's part of them, yes you can find things to do so they aren't as bad, but they will always be there. After reading this thread, I really think you wanted a Lab or an obedient breed. As much work as you put into Link, give it 6 months to a year and all your training will probably be out the window. He will be a testing teenage Husky.

I can vouch for Jennets latest post. My puppy was well trained! Or so we thought! He went through 4 sessions of obedience classes; a total of 6 months straight. Day after day of consistent clicker training seemed to work for him. We bragged about how well behaved he was. He's now 14 months and basically he's a different dog. Talk about a bratty teenager. He doesn't listen to anything we say at the moment. There are many times along the way where it feels like 1 step forward 2 steps back with training. Consitency is key...you can't let your guard down for a second! These dogs are way too smart! We've learned that the hard way. We got a little comfortable as he got older and appeared to be more mature. Now we're trudging up that that hill again as if we are starting from scratch. It's so frustrating on so many levels, but I just love this guy and I know eventually it will all click.

I have a lab and believe me they can be quite stubborn too!

Jennet&Embry wrote:

I think you're expecting way to much out of an 11 week old puppy. My puppy is 11 weeks also, and she's the same way. ALL three of mine were at that age. They're puppies!

You can't train out their charecteristics. It's part of them, yes you can find things to do so they aren't as bad, but they will always be there. After reading this thread, I really think you wanted a Lab or an obedient breed. As much work as you put into Link, give it 6 months to a year and all your training will probably be out the window. He will be a testing teenage Husky.

This is common for all dogs, no? The teenage rebellion times. I'm aware of it and will deal with it in time. I'm pretty sure it's not a breed thing.

I'll keep you all posted on how it goes with him. I was only inquiring about the nature and normalcy of his tantrums in these specific times and wondering about some ways to deal with it. I don't expect him to not have tantrums nor do I expect him to be a perfectly obedient robot (Labish) dog. I've accepted the age-appropriate criticism and acknowledged my naivete as a first time Husky owner raising my first puppy as an adult.

I do expect him to be a dog first though, with his Husky specifics as the supplements that I will do my best to provide him with healthy, productive ways to be released.

I will do everything with him that is needed because he is a Husky, but I will not refrain from doing some things with him because he is a Husky. I know he can be more versatile than that.

Cheers.

I don't refrain from doing things with my dogs..mine even live with cats. No one said you couldn't do things with siberians...

djannitto wrote:

I can vouch for Jennets latest post. My puppy was well trained! Or so we thought! He went through 4 sessions of obedience classes; a total of 6 months straight. Day after day of consistent clicker training seemed to work for him. We bragged about how well behaved he was. He's now 14 months and basically he's a different dog. Talk about a bratty teenager. He doesn't listen to anything we say at the moment. There are many times along the way where it feels like 1 step forward 2 steps back with training. Consitency is key...you can't let your guard down for a second! These dogs are way too smart! We've learned that the hard way. We got a little comfortable as he got older and appeared to be more mature. Now we're trudging up that that hill again as if we are starting from scratch. It's so frustrating on so many levels, but I just love this guy and I know eventually it will all click.

I have noticed pretty much the same with Rue he is 12 months, I was just thinking to myself how maybe I am just bad at training him because we are currently re-learning how to heel because he has decided not to do it properly anymore and man does he complain about the stopping and sitting before we continue again! But soon hopefully we will be back up that hill and well learned on how to walk again