So the past few days I've noticed an increase in the amount and severity of tantrums that Link is throwing. Just wanted to run it by yall to gauge how common it is or what I can do to help alleviate his stress.

He's now 11 weeks old. He's now on a full raw diet and he is two weeks into puppy class and has been very thoroughly socialized. He knows all basic obedience stuff like sit, stay, down, or come.

He's also very polite and quiet when he's being fed or when we are training. He checks in a lot which is wonderful. His attention span is getting much better and he's walking with greater efficiency.

However, he's definitely throwing tantrums primarily when we are hanging out and things are well and then I need to leave for a brief time. For example, I need to tie him up outside the
coffeeshop to go in and get coffee, or crate him so I can put in my contacts.

His stubbornness is also elevating in situations where he really wants something he can't have and I need to correct him, as in physically by tightening his leash and keeping him close, blocking him with my hand or arm, or even just verbally with a "no" or "leave it." We have made some really good progress the past few days with "easy" and his nipping, which is great. But now when he wants something he can't have and he's corrected he getsso frustrated and his mouth just goes crazy. He is using his mouth to vent frustration when his determined will is limited or restricted. He will start nipping at my clothes or my skin and just seems so.....aggravated. This puppy does not handle his will being restricted at all. I guess it is a classic case of Husky stubbornness. His aggravation could be classified on some level as aggression, although not an outright attack.


He knows when he is with me that he is to be calm and settled, and when for example I come out with my coffee and food and sit out with him he knows his limits, doesn't jump for my food and he sits or lays calmly. People walk by and pet him and he's fine.

But when I go in to bring dishes boom, tantrum.

I thought about trying to test him with an exercise and reward him for keeping quiet, as in go in, comeout, go in, come out.......and reward quiet calmness.

Any other ideas or thoughts??

Jeff, he is a Siberian and this is common. The stubborn qualities are in this breed for a reason - they are not meant to be like Labs, they were bred to be independent and intelligent. It is VERY unlikely you will get the ever-obeying kind of dog out of a Siberian.

Please, don't leave him outside unattended. Huskies are stolen all the time and he is just a baby. He's anxious. Leaving him out there is probably scary. If I did that with my male, and he could see me, he'd freak out.

Thanks for your concern Megan.

For the record, he is never out of my sight and I am not going to put him in a position to be stolen. He is outside the coffeeshop for 3 minutes, tops.

And I am sorry, but I just don't know how much of the "it's a Husky, it's what they do, don't try to fight it" I can buy into. If we accept that wholesale, then I think we should not have Huskies in Arizona, we should not sympathize with Husky owners who can't find housing because of breed restrictions, and we should not try to prevent our Huskies from running away from us or destroying our house. Where do we draw the line?? Which Husky traits to we accept and which ones do we train and harness.

I have explored these ideas thoroughly here: https://www.itsahuskything.com/t8263-breedism-racism?highlight=breedism

Please join in, or rejoin in. If we accept "a Husky is just a Husky", then we shouldn't even own them in the first place. There is nothing about them then on paper that would warrant having one as a pet. Seriously, think about it.

I can't accept the helplessness with what I've called breedism. I believe a Husky can be more dog than Husky, especially if given appropriate outlets for their specific Husky needs.

Cheers.

It's not breedism - it's a trait this breed has because the independence and intelligence is necessary for what they were bred for.

Noted ,yes.

But then what gives us the right to own one as a pet in the first place? There is nothing about them , on paper if you analyze their traits, that would warrant having one as a pet. They hate restriction, they want to run away from us all the time, they want to eat through our walls to escape, they don't particularly enjoy affection or interaction with their owners, they are aloof and stubborn.

Are we to accept this wholesale? Can't they be more dog than that? There are exceptions on this forum, are we to ignore them??

If I accept that it is wrong to tie my Husky up for 3 minutes so I can get a cup of coffee for then I have to accept that it is wrong to put one on a leash or have one in a house and that is is wrong to have one in Arizona and that it is wrong to prevent one from eating through our walls.

He is a young Siberian. They are (by nature) very mouthy. Their play styles are a huge indicator of how much they use their mouths. I'm not saying its appropriate- but it is to be accepted. They want what they want, and their tantrums are also to be expected. Doesn't mean that's how they are through life but they have phases and they have attitudes. If each breed didnt have it's own traits we'd all own the same dog. "Willfull disobedience" is pretty much what you're working with/against.

If my dogs throw fits I ignore them. They're not stupid- they get it. I would suggest completely ignoring his tantrums and restricting any and all attention until he settles or lessens.

That's not true. They were bred as companions and working dogs,

There is no reason to be condescending.

yeah, that's for sure. It is interesting watching him in puppy class with the others. He is more mouthy and nippy, for sure. He got put in time out for pinning a Golden Retriever pup down for too long, then when he came out the G R pinned him down and got a time out himself. They were perfect gentlemen afterwords though

I imagine it can be very confusing for puppies to be able to bite on each other all the time and then have humans telling them it's not okay to bite them. Difficult life lessons via our Husky pups.......

I know you love him and know your stuff, but the problem is exactly what Megan said. It's what they were bred to do. They need to be stubborn and independent for sledding. They are supposed to be free-thinking and able to make decisions on their own should they need to.

Yes, on paper there are more negative traits than positive ones. But after owning one, most people usually acknowledge whatever it is that wraps us up in them.

The reason you shouldn't tie them up isn't because they could get away or whatever, it's because he could get stolen. What Megan was saying isn't specific to the husky breed, that could happen to any dog.

You can discourage behaviors to an extent, and sure, some dogs (like ones on here) show fewer standard breed behaviors, but in general they are what they are.

Pippa throws fits sometimes. About lots of things. The fact that we didn't go the way she wanted to on a run, or maybe I didn't walk fast enough back to ger crate with her food. I ignore it, and we move on.

I apologize if it seemed condescending. Not my intent.

I'm just elaborating the full conclusion of accepting "breedism" or "Husky nature."

If we take these concepts seriously, then they have no business on leashes walking around with us and we have no business telling them they can't eat through our walls.

My intent is to say that I find it problematic to pick and choose which Husky traits we accept and which ones we don't.

So when I'm told I shouldn't expect something different from my Husky when I leave him alone outside for 3 minutes because he is a Husky and they are stubborn and mouthy and throw tantrums, I can not help but think about all the other ways in which we expect our Huskies to not be Huskies and that we have no problem justifying those aspects.

Once again, I think a Husky can be more dog than Husky given the proper expectations and proper outlets for their Husky specific needs.

And he is at no more risk of being stolen outside the coffeeshop than he is walking down the street with me. By the time anyone could untie the knot on his rope leash, I'd be out there 10 seconds earlier.

He is not out of my sight.

There is an inherent risk to having any dog in a city that I accept. I'm getting him used to some aspects of my life now in preparation for him being as much a part of my life as possible. I think if he can be calm and quiet and unHusky on a city bus, which he can and does easily, then he can be calm and quiet while I get a cup of coffee for 3 minutes.

No one is picking and choosing, at least I'm not. I don't believe in removing breed traits. My dogs know how to pull, my dogs don't destroy things because they get a lot of exercise and stimulation, my dogs have all of their hair (even in the summer, they just sit in the air conditioning, because it keeps them cold), and the only reason I am adamant about keeping them on leash is because the world we live in is dangerous...cars couldn't hit siberians a thousand years ago. I haven't trained anything out of my dogs, but I have trained them how to do those things on my commands...now, since they are stubborn, independent and very smart, they complain sometimes or don't do it at all and I keep at it. They do what I tell them, but sometimes it's on the third try. I am not "breedist" but I do believe in keeping their identity. I do nto subscribe to anything that needs my breed, so I think we need to stomp calling to breedism because we are comparing that to racism.


It's not about you having him in your sights...people steal dogs. I know someone whose dog was stolen from her hands and ripped away. It happens.

Tantrums are pretty common with the extinction of a behavior. When we started actually limiting when Crispin could come on the couch he would be very stubborn and insistent about it. This isn't limited to huskies though, all dogs (and most people) will have a conniption when they have to start changing habits or are asked/forced to do something they don't want to do. As he's learning to leave things at your command he'll be resistant, but eventually he'll do it without fighting you.

He might have separation anxiety if it's way worse when he can't see or get to you. I've always just been told to ignore them when they cry in the crate. They do stop at some point.

This sounds like a typical puppy problem more than a problem specific to him as a Sibe, all breedism arguments aside.

Good points Megan, thank you.

So there are certain times when we need our Huskies to be Huskies (Husky is appropriate) and certain times when we need our Huskies to be well behaved dogs (Husky is inappropriate).

To rephrase my OP then: how can I best teach Link that when I tie him up for 3 minutes to go get a cup of coffee that it is not okay to throw a tantrum and mouth and scream and be a Husky? In the same way I've taught him that being a Husky on a public bus is inappropriate.

Remember he is just a baby, it is going to take him time to learn what the expectations are. They don't learn overnight. So in this sense at this time accept the fact he is having tantrums as it is normal for the breed at this age. Most will grow out of this stage, but it is very unnatural for a young pup to be restrained and left alone. So yes he is going to act out. The curiosity and strong intent is also part of the breed. This is NOT breedism, this is knowing what you are getting into before you get into it. You will never be able to train a Siberian to act like a Labrador any more than you could train a Lab to be a Sibe. They all have different purposes for which they were bred for and breed traits that go along with that including personality markers, and you got one that was bred to standard. Unlike so many of these other pets you'll get to experience the breed in full. If you wanted a dog that was completely loyal and biddable you shouldn't have gotten a Siberian.

I fully understand that people steal dogs and Huskies in particular because of their looks. I get asked how much he cost and how much he's worth all the time.

I accept that and accept the risk of having him. There is nothing I can do to free myself from that risk. I live in a giant city with terrible people with a beautiful, exotic looking dog. If I loose him because of it, so be it. I don't take excessive, preventable risks with him. I am not going to stop hanging out with him in front of coffeeshops.

I do appreciate the concern and the warnings.

seattlesibe wrote:

To rephrase my OP then: how can I best teach Link that when I tie him up for 3 minutes to go get a cup of coffee that it is not okay to throw a tantrum and mouth and scream and be a Husky? In the same way I've taught him that being a Husky on a public bus is inappropriate.

As his confidence improves this should resolve itself for the most part unless the anxiety is nutured in which case it can become habit. I would deal with it like separation anxiety when leaving home, ignore him whe you tie him out and when you return do no ackowledge (or untie) him until he is calm. This may take a long time the first time.

Anyway..... to answer the original question, I think rewarding quiet behavior is a good start.
I'm neither condoning nor condemning the tying up part, but do you ever practice that at home or other places? How often are you at the coffee shop? Have you tried asking another person to hold his leash to test whether or not the reaction is from being tied or from you walking away? just a thought.
As for other kinds of tantrums, I treat it the same as my (human) 2 year old: stay calm and carry on as usual. It eventually sinks in. Sometimes they just want to have the last 'word'; I just smile and nod same as I would to a human with that personality.

We go there specifically at least 5 mornings a week. He does get better. It worsens if people stop to say hello.

We practice stay and quiet all the time.

Sometimes I wish I could precisely specify the reason: abandonment, excitement, defenselessness, nervousness, frustration......

He's learned to accept calmness and relaxation in many other areas, despite him being a Husky, I just can't pin down this particular case.

He does quietly sit and calmly wait when I return. He knows he get no rewards, leash on or off, without that.

Tricky fellow.

HuskyMom09 wrote:

Remember he is just a baby, it is going to take him time to learn what the expectations are. They don't learn overnight. So in this sense at this time accept the fact he is having tantrums as it is normal for the breed at this age. Most will grow out of this stage, but it is very unnatural for a young pup to be restrained and left alone. So yes he is going to act out. The curiosity and strong intent is also part of the breed. This is NOT breedism, this is knowing what you are getting into before you get into it. You will never be able to train a Siberian to act like a Labrador any more than you could train a Lab to be a Sibe. They all have different purposes for which they were bred for and breed traits that go along with that including personality markers, and you got one that was bred to standard. Unlike so many of these other pets you'll get to experience the breed in full. If you wanted a dog that was completely loyal and biddable you shouldn't have gotten a Siberian.

I definitely get that. But as Megan said, they are also our companions and we live in a dangerous world for dogs and we need to control and limit their behavior, and in this case, limit the manifestation of their breed qualities.

I didn't want a Lab because I enjoy the challenges of this breed. I don't want him to behave like a Lab because I find Labs annoying. I do want him to behave like companion dog though. I know it can be done, because in part I have done it myself with him, and I see and read about Huskies doing it all the time. It is challenging yes, but not impossible.

He will go sledding and pulling and have working jobs in time, and I take him to run and dig all the time. I'm working on the companion-in-a-city part now.

The only thing that came overnight with him was Sit and no-screaming-and-doing-backflips while I'm preparing your food

He will learn with time, remember it is unnatural for a young pup for the one they see as their protector to abandon them, even if it's only for 3 minutes in their mind you may never be coming back. As he starts to realize that 3 minutes isn't forever and you do come back to rescue him the tantrums will be come less and less and eventually stop.

Noted Lani, thanks. I can accept things that are common for his age, no problem. I just like to do my part and minimize his stress as much as possible.

It crossed my mind that it is probably just an irrational (ironic to say this about a dog) abandonment issue that will resolve in time. I just wish I could comfort him more or make it easier. The good news is that we get there in the in the midst of good walking, socializing, and exercise so it is a very brief glitch in an otherwise very positive experience.

Everything you described about Link perfectly describes my 14 month old puppy Q and he's been the exact same way since the day we got him at 8 weeks old. I don't like his bossiness and tantrums either, but I do kind of think his mouthing is cute. It's his way of expressing himself and it's not something that is hurtful or dangerous.

BTW - Link looks so much like Q did when he was that age. Same coloring.

Do you find it offsetting to others though? Are people afraid of him out in public?

It seems so unfortunate to have people out in public afraid of our dogs who mouth and nip and act out and then we just say "oh, he's a Husky, that's what they do and there's nothing I can do about it."

I don't accept that as the only possibility. I know there is a better way to be.

So Q is a masked version of Link, eh??

Pippa is pretty mouthy with me and VERY mouthy with my brother. In public though she just tries to lick everyone unless they purposely get her all excited like people tend to at the dog park.

I think if you work on breaking the mouthy-ness completely now, while he's a puppy, you can work on soft-mouth later during play and things. Because some people will understand the breed and know that when they put all of your fingers in their mouth they're just trying to love on you, but it really does freak some people out.

That's what I've found and how I feel about it anyway!