Sorry to hear of the unfortunate circumstances. I would not try to rush the dog out of the country and would take responsibility for the situation regardless of the outcome. Imagine rush shipping Titus off to Malaysia and then he attacks another dog or person there in another chance, out of character, moment. I know you love Titus but the reason for the council I'm sure is for the protection of the majority. Yes, this is the first time this has happened, but there is no way for us to know if it would happen again to another dog or, God forbid, to a child. Obviously this incident is your proof that he is capable of turning in a split second and it needs to be taken seriously. I know emotions are running high right now between anger and fear, but I hope the rational side is still very much a part of your decision making. I know how much you love Titus and how much he means to you. I am trying to put myself in your shoes and I know I would be devastated. But I also know that I would be even more devastated if I 'ran' so to speak by shipping my dog off and then it happened again whether in the near or not so near future. I honestly think the responsible thing to do is face the council with as much support and witnesses to Titus' character as you can and hope for the best. I really hope things turn out okay. You and Titus will be in my thoughts and prayers no matter what. I'm so sorry you are in the difficult position that you are in.

The less you say until you have contact with your lawyer the better. For the reason we sometimes think what were saying won't effect the outcome but it could surely be equal to shooting yourself in the foot instead.


sssssshhhhh!

I agree with Val, It's best that you don't ship him. It will look bad on your part. Plus you said it will take 10 days. I'm sure the council will have an answer by Monday when you go. They might ask a dog behavior specialist t exam Titus, let just hope they don't ask the same guy who told you it was ok.

If I was you I think I'll wait to try to contact her so fast, because its too early, she might rather want to be alone. Try to contact her firs thing Monday morning.

I really don't mind him being declared as a dangerous dog and have to be muzzled at all times in public. I will muzzle him from now onwards. I just don't want the council to make a rush decision and euthanize him. Read a case in which the council was euthanizing pit bulls. Came across a shar pei x staffy and insisted that it is a pit mix (by pic comparison) and have it euthanize within 72 hours. The owner filed a lawsuit and was able to prove the dog has no pit in it. But it's already dead. The husky club here told me not to surrender Titus to them without a court order or I might lost him without knowing it. I don't really know what does this mean though.

I don't have the poodle's owner contact number as the training director will not let me have it. I did told him to forward her an apology letter.

Yes Titus was tethered (tied up), the poodle was on leash and the owner brought it within 2 1/2feet range of Titus where he is tethered.

Huskyluv wrote:

Sorry to hear of the unfortunate circumstances. I would not try to rush the dog out of the country and would take responsibility for the situation regardless of the outcome. Imagine rush shipping Titus off to Malaysia and then he attacks another dog or person there in another chance, out of character, moment. I know you love Titus but the reason for the council I'm sure is for the protection of the majority. Yes, this is the first time this has happened, but there is no way for us to know if it would happen again to another dog or, God forbid, to a child. Obviously this incident is your proof that he is capable of turning in a split second and it needs to be taken seriously. I know emotions are running high right now between anger and fear, but I hope the rational side is still very much a part of your decision making. I know how much you love Titus and how much he means to you. I am trying to put myself in your shoes and I know I would be devastated. But I also know that I would be even more devastated if I 'ran' so to speak by shipping my dog off and then it happened again whether in the near or not so near future. I honestly think the responsible thing to do is face the council with as much support and witnesses to Titus' character as you can and hope for the best. I really hope things turn out okay. You and Titus will be in my thoughts and prayers no matter what. I'm so sorry you are in the difficult position that you are in.

As much as it's heartbreaking, I agree with Val. I know I said earlier I'd be shipping him off asap, but this has given me a change of heart. It also jogged my memory of my dear boy Odin and what happened with him before I made the heartbreaking decision to put him to sleep.

Odin was a Maltese x Shih tzu. He was an amazing lovable boy. He love my boys as if they were his own litter mates and was always by their side.
He did however have an agressive streak, he was terrified of men because of an incident when he had been apart of my family for just weeks. It involved my neighbour and his large dogs digging a hole under my fence.
My Odin never trusted men fron that day on and always snapped and snarled at them.
My nephews were very nasty to him when he was a baby and as much as I'd try to stop them or seperate my nephews from Odin the damage was done. He loved my boys but HATED with a passion every single other child. I blame my nephews for this bhaviour, as much as I'd never say it to their faces, I really do.

When my son was having treatment, my mother was watching him, we had been away for 2 months and although my mum has a maltese silky who never got out of the yard, Odin was always getting out. My mum was also looking after my younger son at the time, then 16 months.

One day Odin got out while my son was having a nap. It was the afternoon and school had just got out. A little 6 year old boy was just about to turn into his drive way when Odin spotted him. My mum was just about to grab him when Odin launched himself at the child. He drew blood and was snarling and extremelly agressive. The child was terrified.
My mum grabbed Odin as the mother of the child came out wondering why her son was crying. She noticed the blood and couldnt believe that a tiny little dog who looked so incredibly placid laying in my mum's arms could do such a thing. My mum explained our situation and the child's mother refused to report it.

My mum rang me up that night and told me what had happened. As much as it hurt me and as much as I loved and still love my dearest Odin I made the decision to put him to sleep beased on the fact that this was the frist time he had done something like this, but what if there was a next time and there wasnt anyone to pull him off? Or what if he caused further damage? What if he got a child's face?

It's horrible to even write this because I nkow emotions are running high right now, but I think it's something you have to think about, long and hard.

Before we did it we asked our vet if we were making the right decision. His reply was ' They do it once, they'll do it again'

I'm sorry if I've upset you or anyone by posting this story of my sweet little boy who unfortunately had a cast of Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde syndrome. But I think it's something to think about.

I agree with Val. While I understand your fear, you have to remember that you have to protet other dogs from him. He is a malamute and they can be dog.aggressive, more imporratnly a poodle looks like prey to a dog that big (heck it looks like a squirrel to Delilah). I notched.that you keep going back up.him being fearful. This kind of am action is not.one of fear. I just want you to understand that, as you will be hard pressed to find a court that will see it as such.

The muzzle is a good idea, but is it enough? Malamutes are large and you may want to grab some kind of short lead and NEVER let him anywhere that isn't right next to you.

Im sorry for what happened and I can only imagine how terrified you are. Keep us posted and try not to.stress out too much, as it will.only make you more frustrated.

P.s. sorry for typos...on phone

I thought Lycan is the Malamute?

I believe Lycan is the mal, Titus is the husky.

Oops sorry! My mistake

The thing with dogs of any breed - in this case a Siberian - even a dog that is 10+ years old, has never shown ANY sign of prey drive in his entire life then suddenly turns around one day and kills a smaller dog and NO ONE understands why or how it happened.

Prey drive can be triggered at ANY moment and is still very much there even in dogs who have never once showed an ounce of the drive itself. If the right circumstances happen - be it the sight of a small dog running, maybe the small dog got scared and made a quick, sudden movement - even on the lead it could cause the drive to kick in. Maybe a dog (or something else) somewhere yelped or made a high pitched cry or noise that sparked the drive. Maybe a man was too close to Titus and he felt threatened (because he was on a short lead tied to something and not near you). He could have been incredibly stressed and you were too far away from him (even though it doesn't seem that far) and something startled him and caused him to lash out. Any number of things could have happened all at once that caused the incident.

The important thing right now is to take every precaution you can to ensure that no incidents happen until you either find out if she filed against you or that there is a ruling on what is to be done. We are all incredibly biased to our animals and when something bad happens we're always the first ones to go up and say "this has never happened he's not really like this!" but now is the time where you have to be realistic and rational. It HAS happened and it very well COULD happen in the future - maybe to another dog, maybe to a child (god forbid) maybe to an adult. Even if it was just a fluke with an odd set of circumstances that might not happen again. All it takes is that one moment for us to let our guard down as owners for everything to go horribly, horribly wrong.

To add another insight to something - I know you're angry and upset but I also don't feel that blaming this training director simply because he suggested EU is necessarily right or proper. He is at fault for some things (it isn't our place necessarily to judge his ability as a behaviorist - as people everywhere make mistakes) or that he is only wanting to "protect his famous facility". This was something no one saw coming (as the owner of the dog, if you didn't see it coming how could you expect someone else who doesn't live with or see the dog every day to? Any behaviorist I know does not declare any dog one way or another after one evaluation). I do have one question - why was Titus tethered instead of being with you if you weren't that far away to begin with?

As responsible owners it is our job to be proactive and take extra steps that other people might not make to protect other dogs (and other animals) from our dog as well as protecting our dog from other dogs (and other animals). I strongly agree with what Val has said and I think that is probably the best course of action any person in your position can take. I'm sorry for all that you are going through and know that you and Titus are in my thoughts and prayers through this difficult time.

If that we're one of my dogs I would do anything and everything in my power to keep them safe. If that meant shipping them off to somewhere else to stay with my parents until I moved... So be it.

Don't mean to step on any toes but my dogs are my life. In a situation like that I wouldn't trust the broward county courts or animal services to decide the fate of my dog. Mistakes happen, dogs are dogs. And as long as you muzzle him in public and don't leave him unattended again... I am on the train to ship him off.

My dog is my life - but if my dog attacked and killed someone/thing - I'm going to own up and face the facts and reality. It very much COULD happen again.

You ship the dog off you could be forced to have the dog brought back and EU'd (instead of just facing a dangerous dog charge since you evaded the law trying to protect your animal) and you could be faced with many fines along with all of the shipping fees - depending on when the dog was shipped out. That doesn't include the fact that I -think- to ship a dog out of the country it isn't a short time span type of thing.

My dogs are everything to me and frankly I wouldn't trust the courts here. I've seen too many animals ordered destroyed by idiots that have no clue about dogs. Its not a jury of your peers it's one dumbass judges opinion. I would pay all fines or whatever but they would never take my dog, they wouldn't find him.

I am afraid that I am biased to the situation so I went and talked to Titus previous trainer. She is also a behaviorist plus a lecturer for behaviorist classes. She told me that Titus will not be euthanized or declared as a dangerous dog because any dog tied up would have just strike out let alone Titus which have always been skittish. It is not ethical to tie a dog in a training ground which she will never do because the dog's protective instinct will do something out of character. Titus killed a dog when he was tied up, and the dog approach on a leash with the owner. He did not killed a human, so they can't force me to euthanize him. That is what she told me. She also told me to compensate for the losses. What else? She didn't want to know which training director wants to euthanize Titus after saying that he is fine to be tied there. But after a bit, she got too angry that she asked me. She knows the person and claim that he is irresponsible which will not back me up. She said to leave Titus as it is. After a month bring him back to her and she will set a specific training to fix his issue and she will not charge a thing for that. When we go to Malaysia, she will transfer Titus another trainer in Malaysia (she have connections) that can continue with her work. She said to never ever put the boy down; after months of training in her place, Titus has never even bark once
What do you guys think about what she said?

Niraya wrote:

I do have one question - why was Titus tethered instead of being with you if you weren't that far away to begin with?

To answer this question, Lycan training was from 9-10am and Titus was from 10.15-11.15am. The trainer told me to tied Titus aside during Lycan training time.
Also, I did ask the training director if he need a few more sessions to evaluate Titus but he declined saying that he know dogs and Titus will be fine with normal group training. I should have known more than that. I was sort of scolded by Titus previous trainer this whole morning for trusting Titus in people that in her words "teach a dog to sit and think they are experience enough". That's my fault for changing him over.

Niraya wrote:

My dog is my life - but if my dog attacked and killed someone/thing - I'm going to own up and face the facts and reality. It very much COULD happen

While I agree that I would indeed need to face facts, these facts do not point to a dog who is aggressive, unstable, or deserving of being put to the mercy of county courts.

Found another case;
A rottweiler for ordered to be destroyed after the collar he was wearing scratches a teenager's nose. The boy was going house to house doing some school survey when he came to this house with two beagle and a rottweiler. The owner opened the door for the boy to come in and all the dogs jump on him being excited. After that the owner realised the boy was bleeding on the nose and asked the boy. The boy did not feel anything. He went home and after a while the mum came and insisted that the rottweiler attacked her son. Being the biggest of all three dogs, the rottweiler was blamed. She filed a report about how a son will have plastic injuries and the judge put the dog dog even though the owner argue that if the rottweiler bite the boy, why didn't the boy feel anything. There were no bite marks too, just a small scratch probably from the collar that wasn't visible after a week.

For me this is ridiculous!

It is what it is, Michelle, do what you feel is right for you. I just cannot in good conscience recommend or agree with shipping Titus off to another country. Do I agree with the decisions of some justices in questionable cases? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean I would think of trying to circumvent the system. Even innocent people are put to death for crimes they didn't commit but that doesn't justify a person on trial fleeing a country. Of course you will find outrageous cases that are highly publicized, but there are also countless cases that don't have tragic endings either.

As for your post regarding the talk with the previous trainer, I really can't comment because I found it a bit difficult to follow. But I guess the basics are that she doesn't think Titus will be euthanized because he didn't kill a person and he was restrained. Armed with that info that should put your mind at ease somewhat, of course how true it is I couldn't say. Either way, don't look at every worst possible scenario as what will happen in your case. We all are aware of the consequences of dog bites, attacks, kills, etc before we bring dogs into our lives. So we have to be willing to accept both the risks and rewards when it comes to owning dogs. Dog bites are risks and with those risks come responsibilities, one of which I would consider owning up to and facing whatever comes as a result of such a situation as the one you are presently in. I know not everyone would agree with me and I'm not asking anyone to, just stating things how I see them. I know that if someone else's dog killed one of mine I would expect that the owner at the very least would have the decency to show up in court and face whatever penalty the judge or council sees fit to implement, at least I would anyway.

As I said before, I am still hoping and praying for a good outcome no matter what happens. You have a good head on your shoulders and I commend you for taking responsibility and doing everything in your power thus far to make things as right as you possibly can.

I will not be shipping him off. I will wait and see what happens. Will the women file a report with the council or does she want a private settlement. I will settle with a dangerous dog title at most despite the trainer thinks that he is not dangerous. But I will not settle with euthanizing him.

Titus&Lycan wrote:

I am afraid that I am biased to the situation so I went and talked to Titus previous trainer. She is also a behaviorist plus a lecturer for behaviorist classes. She told me that Titus will not be euthanized or declared as a dangerous dog because any dog tied up would have just strike out let alone Titus which have always been skittish. It is not ethical to tie a dog in a training ground which she will never do because the dog's protective instinct will do something out of character. Titus killed a dog when he was tied up, and the dog approach on a leash with the owner. He did not killed a human, so they can't force me to euthanize him. That is what she told me. She also told me to compensate for the losses. What else? She didn't want to know which training director wants to euthanize Titus after saying that he is fine to be tied there. But after a bit, she got too angry that she asked me. She knows the person and claim that he is irresponsible which will not back me up. She said to leave Titus as it is. After a month bring him back to her and she will set a specific training to fix his issue and she will not charge a thing for that. When we go to Malaysia, she will transfer Titus another trainer in Malaysia (she have connections) that can continue with her work. She said to never ever put the boy down; after months of training in her place, Titus has never even bark once
What do you guys think about what she said?

Everything she is saying sounds really possitive and in your and Titus' advantage. I really hope it plays out this way.
Good luck x

This is a really unfortunate circumstance and I pray that everything works out in you're favor. You and Titus both will be in my thought's and prayers.

How have you gotten on today?

So sorry to hear what you are going through, our thoughts are with you. I know the feeling, it is not easy, Brooklyn killed a neighbours 2 chickens (this has happened before with us, but with Halli not BK)and the owner of the chickens was being quite the twat/douche. The chicken owner was pushing for BK to be declared a dangerous dog and be put down, he threatened us with blackmail (he would press charges unless we bought his 2 kids nintendo DS) and even went to the police with the matter. Not sure how it goes in VIC but we had 2 guys from the council come and look at our property and ask us questions about Brooklyn, any previous history we may have with this issue and also do the same with the chicken owner, what i understand happened and took photos of Bk and Halli, they put it all in a report (which they allow you to view and make sure everything was correct and sign) and hand it to a case manager. Another person from the council who handled our case then got in contact with us to view Brooklyn, our house, fencing and discuss possible outcomes etc. Despite the twat pushing for Bk to be put down or at least declared a dangerous dog we ended up with a fine.
We were very honest with the council and told them everything upfront, we showed them we were responsible owners and that this was not usual BK behaviour, Brooklyn was very well behaved whenever they came round. I know chickens are not the same as dogs, however in the eyes of the council they do not consider it any different, it is your dog killing something (dog, chicken, horse, pig, goat, hamster etc). hopefully they go lightly on you as it is his first offence and give you a fine, it will depend on what the poodle owner wants to do as well. Any compensation is a civil matter between you and Poodle Owner (and any lawyers involved)and most councils will not want anything to do with that side of it. A big thing i can recommend (which you may already be doing) is keep a record of everything (from phone calls you made to your solicitor, conversations with trainers, any contact you may have tried to make with the other owner, etc. it will come in handy if any of this goes to court. Just remember to breathe and think of everything logically and with your head, i know you love Titus and want him to stay alive, and by all means fight for it, just stay calm and don't say or do anything out of frustration and being upset, it can kick in you the butt later on.

I hope you guys get it sorted out,

Titus&Lycan wrote:

I will not be shipping him off. I will wait and see what happens. Will the women file a report with the council or does she want a private settlement. I will settle with a dangerous dog title at most despite the trainer thinks that he is not dangerous. But I will not settle with euthanizing him.

Sorry to hear about your situation. I would just like to say stay strong and do everything you can in your power to keep him alive! I can see from what I've read you care deeply for Titus and are willing to take as many counter measures as possible to not have this scenario repeated while not having to resort to EU. I hope things work out for both you and the other owner.

I too am very very sorry this has happened to you and am hopeful for a good outcome for poor Titus.