Okay, so I read a previous thread about Counter Surfing and I have tried many of the things suggested like putting baking sheets to scare him. My large pots are actually bent from Loki pulling them off the stove and actually out of the sink. He has also pulled off baking sheets. The noise doesn't affect him at all. My main concern is him burning himself on the stove top. If there isn't a plate or something to knock off, he tends to grab anything he can reach (paper towels, sponges, bottle brush, etc). If I catch him in the act, he puts he tail in between his legs and runs, so he knows he shouldn't be doing this. I can't really block off the kitchen. I don't leave the kitchen a mess, he waits for the opportune time. Any other ideas? Thank you in advance.

Have you tried the "Leave it" method?
Probably one of the most useful commands your dog should learn is “leave it.” It can be used for so many situations where your dog is going to pick up or interfere, or even make contact with an item, a smell, an animal or a place you do not wish him to be in contact with. It can also be one of the most important commands for a dog’s safety.

I personally use "That's mine" "Its hot" or just "hot" when Marlee puts her paws on the counter and she knows to stay away from it, it also works for dressers, hair straightener & when she is near the tv stand loll

I used "leave it" when giving them treats, and because Marlee is blind I didn't want her to be confused thinking when i say leave it she only has to stay away for a little bit and then she can look for the treat. Thats hot works well because she has bumped into the straightener a few times, she understands hot is bad

How do you respond when you see it happening?

Be specific and detailed, please.

The easiest way to train this is by using something your dog wants .. like a treat or a toy. Have a treat in your hand held between your fingers and thumb so he cant grab it, and let him see, smell, and even lick it. Then say, “leave it,” and move your hand away. If he tries to follow, close your fingers and do not let him get to your hand. Once he is calm, show him it again, say “leave it,” and once again move your hand away. If he follows your hand and attempts to grab it you can put him on a leash to show him what you are asking for by holding him back. When he does make a movement backwards from the treat praise him and give the treat to him. You can do the same with a toy or you could also use even better treat in the other hand and when the dog moves away from the first treat they give them the higher value one as the reward. This gives them the motivation to respect the “leave it” command to get the more desirable treat. Whichever way you choose remember the aim is to cut out all treats and have your dog “leave it” without any motivation other than pleasing and listening to you !

Once you get him used to that , put your dog on a leash and let him see you drop a treat on the floor. Control him on the leash so he cannot pick it up and then command “leave it” and move him away, even give him light pops with the leash if you need to, to get him to leave it. Sit him a little ways away from the treat and then pick it up and give it to him. You want his attention to come to you and follow you , so the treat or toy comes from you. If your dog will retrieve, drop a toy he likes to carry, tell him “leave it” and walk away with your dog, leaving the toy behind. When he is following you nicely (a few steps or so), turn around, ask him to sit, then say go ahead or fetch and let him go for it.
Some dogs will do all this and know the “leave it” command but in some situations where prey drive or instinct comes into play, they cannot control themselves, and will not leave the tempting place or object. In these instances you can go back to the leash work and use it where the temptations are greater or you may create a stronger distraction or interrupter to gain his attention, such as dropping an object (a paperback book or a coke can with pebbles in it) at his feet. This makes him think, “When I go for that object, something falls around my feet from the sky.” You do not indicate in any way it came from you – you say “leave it” and encourage him back with a smile, calmly. Leave the object “that fell from the sky” there until later.

Great Leave It instructions, but if the kitchen is always available and there's always desirable things on the counter then the temptation and opportunities to surf are going to always be there when there's no supervision.

Leave It is great in the moment, but it requires supervision and interaction. A huge part of the problem here is constant access, constant temptation with rewards on the counters, and no sense of boundaries or respect for space.

I'm going to be honest and say Loki is my first dog. We don't really have any other issues then the kitchen counter. If I catch him, either one of two things happen.

Scenario 1: I walk in and he hasn't had the chance to grab anything or there isn't anything to grab. I firmly say "No". He gets down and I say "Out" and he gets walks out of the kitchen. I say "lay down" and he goes to his time out spot. He knows he is in trouble and acts as if he knows it.

Scenario 2: I walk in and he was able to get a hold of something. Before I can even respond, he runs with whatever it may be. He jumps over the baby gate and down stairs. Most often than not, his tail is down. I go downstairs, tell him "no". Loki will give me whatever he has and I bring him back upstairs and he lays down in his time out spot.

Please give me advice on what I could be doing better.

Also I wanted to add, he only jumps up onto the counter if he isn't directly supervised. He usually won't even take a step into the kitchen if I'm there.

I may get some flack for this but here goes...

Since this is happening when you are not in the room, may I suggest you think about the pawz away barriers from Petsafe.  The whole electronic collar thing, to my mind, is a lot more humane than letting a dog get hit by a car or burn his paws.  I am able to let my son's dog have full access to the back yard because of the electronic collar...Ami no longer needs a prong and can walk in a harness and I am not face first in the ditch...the dogs are just about trained sufficiently so that they will have the run of almost 5 acres with lots of woody/brushy areas to dig, sniff, etc, (out of chain link only with supervision)

Gotta go, husband wants me to mop up the mud the critters and I dragged through the house

Thank you Amy. I actually ordered (haven't got it yet) some barriers for outside. This version only make a high pitch sound, so I will see if it will even work. After writing this, I see they make indoor barriers triggered by the same collar. If the sound ones don't work, I may have to look into the ones you are talking about.

Right. That should tell you two things: one is that he's learned to fear your reaction, and two that he has no sense of boundary in your kitchen.

The reason Leave It won't work, besides that it requires direct interaction, is because "it" is always there and he doesn't respect a boundary of his space and yours.

You need to teach him boundaries, spatial respect. It won't work if he learns to fear you or loud noises, especially since he can always access the kitchen and there are things always on the counter.

I can help you with teaching boundaries but I need to not be on my phone on a bus.

Stay tuned.

How old is Loki and do you ever , honestly, give him human or dog food in the kitchen?

That was in response to you saying he only does it unsupervised. ....just for clarity.

Jeff,

Loki is 8 months old. I don't feed him in the kitchen. His food and water bowl also is not in the kitchen. He has learned however that my one year old drops food for him when sitting in his high chair or that he can find food on the floor under the high chair. I try to keep Loki outside when my son is eating and clean up the floor before he gets let back in.

Thank you for your help!

I don't know about the pawz away with collar (I have the yard max fence system - it's collar also works with their different barriers) but the collar Ami has gives him a warning beeping first.  He now turns around with alacrity when he hears the beep.  Using the educator ecollar on Archer when he was in the back ard (before I put in the fence system) I was able to keep him away from the pool just by using the "tap" setting - a vibration like a cell phone.  The down side of this is you have to see his transgression - or better yet, see that he is considering a transgression.  Sort of like the time my sister was here with her 3 girls.  13 yr old girl was trying to get on a float in the pool and kept falling off, kept at it, trying to get on.  14 yr old girl was 50 ft away on a swing, watching the whole thing.  Mom was watching both of them.  14 yr old, after seeing that 13 yr old finally got on the float and was relaxing, went into the big sister analogy of husky prey mode and started to quietly head toward the pool.  Mom saw her coming at 30 ft and  hissed:  Emily, don't even THINK about it   14 yr old feigned innocence with the ubiquitous "what?"  Which is sort of what Archer would do when I would buzz him   Gradually, I no longer even had to buzz him more than once or twice a visit.  Now, with the yard max fence, both dogs just ignore the pool (Ami used to like to sit on the diving board over the deep end - drove me crazy!  If he fell in with pool cover on, he would drown, no question about it.

For what it's worth - after the initial frenzy with Ami and the counters, first with the cookie sheets and pans, then, maybe 3 or 4 times with the ecollar on "tap", progressing to me just saying "nose" in a warning voice when he approaches the counters, he now stays away from them. He has even been sleeping in the kitchen at night on a blanket under the kitchen table. Unsupervised. The really funny thing is the boundaries to the family room and the front hall are nothing more than large sheets of cardboard...Now, I do not leave butter, cheese or meat on the counters just to keep him honest I no longer even put the ecollar on him in the house.

I'm guessing, since loki is only 8 mos. old, you have a while before training will be reliable. Maybe a taller gate than the baby gate? Or make some temporary, movable "walls" with 1x1 and chicken wire? Don't know your kitchen set up but you can be creative.

Just to clarify, the baby gate is for the baby to keep him from going down the hallway to the stairs. I would have to make it really high lol. Loki will jump onto my son's loft bed! The kitchen, dining room, and living room is open space. Just to give you an idea with what I'm dealing with.

Ok  now that I am on my computer....  (warning: I'm verbose)

 I am fully on board with Amy's suggestion of physical barriers.  Something has to be possible.  You have an extremely dynamic household of stuff going on with a human toddler and an adolescent Husky.  The latter, especially, is on the verge of making your life even more difficult and stressful through the teenage phases and he is going to start challenging you and pushing your buttons and testing his limitations all the time for the next year.  

That said, the boundary training I would normally suggest here is going to be so much more difficult with an 8 month old as opposed to a puppy or an adult.  You'll have your work cut out for you, no doubt.  

So the problem you're seeing is constant temptation in the kitchen.  If he is only surfing the counters while you are away then 1) he has no sense of boundary, and 2) it is going to be rewarding every time he does it if there is actually stuff on the counter to get to.  This was my point about Leave It above:  "It" is always available and tempting and rewarding.  In other words, your dog isn't set up for success in the kitchen.  

I know it can't be perfect, but I am pretty sure you can make the counters less desirable. Let's say they're at a level 7 of desirable now, you can take it down to a level 4 and still have a practical, functioning kitchen.   Drawers, cabinets, cleaning, no food whatsoever exposed will all do you some good.  

It is very good that his food and his water isn't in the kitchen.  Keep that up for sure. You also didn't mention if you give him human food while cooking or whatever, but if you do, stop now and don't do it anymore.  Any food whatsoever given to him in the kitchen is hurting your chance of meeting your goal here.  If you don't do this already, then +10 for you.  

It's just that right now it is kind of a free for all in the kitchen unless you're around, and then he doesn't try anything because he fears your reaction.  Again, this is evident because as soon as you are gone, the free for all resumes.  

So, boundary training.  This takes a lot of time commitment and repetitiveness as well as 100% commitment by you and your family, but it works, and it works by teaching him to respect your space and your boundaries and this will transfer to when you aren't around as well. In other words, it teaches him to respect you.  

Here's what to do.  

Put desirable things on the counters in the kitchen.  You want him to be tempted to go up for them.  Sit down on the floor with him and have treats in your pocket but *make sure he doesn't know you have them*, so pocket them in advance.

The goal is here is complete focus on you.  As for the desirable things on the counter, no looking, sniffing, jumping, lunging, talking, nothing.  When any attention whatsoever is given to the counter, correct him and block him.  No words are necessary here, just use body language, energy, and physical blocks like with an arm or your body.  You can correct with any non-word noises, a quick clap, or just a redirect of focus with your hand or body.  

Focus on the counter is bad, focus on you is good. So, when the counter is focused on, disapprove with your own body tension.  When you are focused on, relax and be calm.  Any eye contact with you gets a treat.  Any sits or lying down gets a treat.  You want to treat focus on you and relaxation every time.    Keep this up.  

The goal is for the kitchen A) to not be a big deal, so just relax, and B) to be seen as your space, not his.  Claim it as your own.  It is not there for him to be stimulated and focused on and used as a free for all playground or food storage.  It is yours and he needs to learn that.  

Once he gets the hang of it for a while, grab something off the counter that he can have and have him sit with eye contact, and give it to him.  Let him have it for a while, go get it, go back in the kitchen and put it back on the counter.  Now, once again, if he so much as looks at it or sniffs at it, correct him and block him.  After a while, offer it again and repeat.  

Get the drift here?  You're teaching him that you are the filter through which good things are gained and in doing so you will teach him that the counters are off limits.  

On a daily basis, if he so much as looks or sniffs at the counter he needs to be corrected and blocked, and then redirected to something appropriate through you.    All No's should have the subsequent Yes right after, so correct/block, then redirect.  

This type of training is the foundation for your dog respecting you and your space and ending the free for all mentality he currently has.  

I hope this made sense and that it helps.    Good luck.

Haha, and P.S.

you can use this exact same training to stay off the loft bed

I don't give him human food while cooking, but I can't say if my husband does or not.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to ask a couple questions here:

1) I sit on the floor of the kitchen and do this?

2) When I give him something off the counter, am I now in the kitchen or a different room? Do I let him see me take it off the counter and put it back?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I try this. I greatly appreciate your help.

P.S. The loft bed thing isn't normal lol. I was up there and I called him to see if he would actually attempt it. It took me off guard when he actually made it up there!

Jeff has really good step by step...if I digest it properly, it really comes down to anticipating his behavior, as in "don't even think about it, buster!" Which come to think about it, I've said on multiple occasions to Ami as he glances towards the counter. A good tactic to remember when your toddler becomes teenager

That being said, I think I have violated most of Jeff's instructions - Ami gets little tidbits while I cook, he gets fed little tidbits (from a cocktail fork, no less ) by my husband while we eat. But always, always, he must sit and wait. Pawing, nudging or nosing will get him nothing. He must be patient. And what he gets is itsy bitsy pieces, slightly more than a sniff. except for his scrambled eggs...I love scrambled eggs, husband doesn't so I never made them just for myself. Now that I have Ami, I make some for him and me. A few times a month. He's just so appreciative, grateful when we feed him that it becomes very rewarding for us.

1) Yes, just sit in the kitchen.  Hang out with him.  Be casual. You're trying to teach him that the kitchen is a casual environment when he is to focus on you, not a stimulating environment that grabs his attention.   You want the kitchen to be as banal as the hallway, but someplace that deserves your respect.    Right now for him the kitchen is either Exciting when you're not around or Stressful when you are.    You want to make it casual and relaxing.  Your space. You call the shots and run the show, not him.  

2) The point of this is that YOU invite him to the object and offer it, teaching him that just because he desires something doesn't mean he gets it.  You want to teach him here that  you must be the filter.  This is a form of Nothing In Life Is Free training.  So it doesn't matter where you give it, so long as he gets the point that YOU gave it to him.

He needs to learn to defer to you, which will build his respect for you, which will then enable him to respect your space.

I would also check in with your husband, because if he gives him even one piece of food in the kitchen then your whole project here is over.

Haha, the big difference Amy is age of your respective dogs and precedent

seattlesibe wrote:

Haha, the big difference Amy is age of your respective dogs and precedent

Oh yes! I am forever grateful we got a year old dog and not a young pup. 3 days a week with now 10 mo old Archer is plenty, thank you very much Just 15 minutes ago that damn pup snatched a bone Ami was working on and was trying to gobble it down as fast as he could. I was afraid of surgical ramifications and little squirt would not let go of the bone. Had husband bring out some turkey from dinner, still wouldn't let go and was trying to gulp the damn bone half chewed so I had to hold onto his collar really tight with one hand and under his jaw with the other. I felt awful for being so physical with him but I did not want him to swallow those pieces whole. Finally a piece big enough to pull on slid out the side of his mouth, I grabbed, husband gave him the turkey and I ran. Ultimately, it was mostly connective tissue but still some of the bone pieces might have been a problem.

So looks like I have to teach "drop it" to the little squirt.

Drop It for bones is some advanced stuff, but you're more than capable of teaching that.

The one thing I haven't *yet* been able to teach Link with success is -hang out out here quietly while I run in and get coffee-. That just seems to go over both his and my head

That's like the final piece on the chess board I need to capture for check mate and I just can't.

Sorry for the meander Casey.  Amy and I get chatty every so often

Anyway, I guess to reframe my whole approach it is really just contextualizing the kitchen in a different way.  

Me and my best friend Jen, on here as wpskier222, are super into respect-based training and I think your issue has a lot to do with respect.  Since it is more of a philosophical approach, in a sense, than say training how to Sit or Stay, it can take a bit to warm up to and get comfortable with, but once you do it's golden.  It starts with you and your mindset with the understanding that what you think and feel will trickle onto your dog, who takes on your reflection like a mirror.  

This is what the hanging out in the kitchen part is all about: changing Loki's perception of the kitchen and learning to defer to you and get rewarded for relaxation.   Once you crack away at the stimulation of the kitchen, your goal is nearly sealed and done.  Just fine tuning from there.

Casey - I was reflecting on your situation as I am doing dishes. It occurred to me that Ami did not even have minimal house privileges when we first got him. He was supposed to be an outdoor, crop protection dog (deer) and, as he is a husky, I was extremely tight on keeping him contained. He had to earn every little bit of his freedom. To begin with, he was only off leash first thing in the morning out of his crate in the outbuilding and last thing at night before going in his crate in the outbuilding. It is large enough that we could play in there - he still likes to go in there though he hasn't slept in there since last May. We wouldn't even take him in the car without the travel crate (which was a major pain, it only went in sideways and disassembled )

It may be difficult at this point, but is it possible to either tether or crate him in the kitchen?

I am using Jeff and Jen's technique very slowly with Ami and our outdoor cat...I never let him focus on her. As soon as he sees her, it's "no.o.o...kitty's not on the menu." We've progressed to me being able to go out the front door with Ami on leash, with a dish of cat food, kitty on the steps behind the open storm door, put the food down and shut the inside door all without Ami lunging at kitty. Lately, not even that much of a tight leash. I think it's been about 3 mo since I read their approach, and though I am consistent every time we see kitty, it is not something that gets a 3x daily training (I'm not sure kitty would sit still in the kitchen for this )

(anxiously awaiting Amy's wise words for my check mate......)