You two have both been a major help! This just had me stumped! I have been successful with him leaving stuffed animals, slippers, and shoes alone and even keeping him off my furniture but the counter tops have just been a struggle. My husband would actually prefer Loki didn't enter the kitchen at all but that's where Amy's barrier idea might come into play. One step at a time right?

seattlesibe wrote:

(anxiously awaiting Amy's wise words for my check mate......)

Me?!!? I'm stumped! I often wonder how Jen does errands in NYC with Dizzy...The closest I have come is when Ami is in the laundry room with the cardboard in front of the door to the hall to our bedroom and front hall. His food is stored in a closet under the stairs diagonally across from the door to the laundry room. I've worked up to "stay" with the door partially open, while I go into my bedroom for laundry, come back, quick swipe of the hand into his food bucket and reward him with a few pieces of kibble. He sort of now stays there when I leave the room, waiting for his treat when I return.

I remember from my psyche classes way, way back that a reward had more power if it were intermittent, that is, the rewardee so to speak, does not know for sure if the reward is coming or not. So he keeps working at it knowing sometimes it will come...

With my two, Archer and Ami, I've found success with always having kibble in my pocket...do you remember your discussion of prey based training? I guess I am the prey, always a source of food

Hi Jeff

I was just reading this thread (OP you have some wonderful advice here!) and I thought I would throw my 2 cents in with how I got Orion to "hang out" while I go places
I use Stay and Settle. I had no success with Down and Stay because I found with Down he was still in "command mode" and waiting for something else from me so would be a pain in the butt if I tethered him and left because I hadn't ended the exercise with him so to speak, which is also why I ask for settle after stay.
Settle is basically my command for "it is ok to relax" it is a shaped behaviour that I worked on when he was little for when he would start getting too worked up but hadn't done anything bad so timeout would be inappropriate. I use it for all sorts of things, introducing puppies or small dogs, when we are around little children, When we are in public places etc. His Settle is essentially him lying down but on his side with his head to the ground - a natural sleeping posture for him.
By issuing the stay command then adding Settle Orion knows that he is to stay put but he can chill I don't expect anything else of him.

Do you have anything equivalent for Link? It surprises me sometimes how much nuances in command matter in the resulting behaviour with Orion, logically Down and Stay should work for scenarios with me popping into shops etc but it doesn't because he's not relaxed. Perhaps Link is the same?

Sorry for the hijacking Casey...

GeorginaMay wrote:

Hi Jeff

I was just reading this thread (OP you have some wonderful advice here!) and I thought I would throw my 2 cents in with how I got Orion to "hang out" while I go places
I use Stay and Settle. I had no success with Down and Stay because I found with Down he was still in "command mode" and waiting for something else from me so would be a pain in the butt if I tethered him and left because I hadn't ended the exercise with him so to speak, which is also why I ask for settle after stay.
Settle is basically my command for "it is ok to relax" it is a shaped behaviour that I worked on when he was little for when he would start getting too worked up but hadn't done anything bad so timeout would be inappropriate. I use it for all sorts of things, introducing puppies or small dogs, when we are around little children, When we are in public places etc. His Settle is essentially him lying down but on his side with his head to the ground - a natural sleeping posture for him.
By issuing the stay command then adding Settle Orion knows that he is to stay put but he can chill I don't expect anything else of him.

Do you have anything equivalent for Link? It surprises me sometimes how much nuances in command matter in the resulting behaviour with Orion, logically Down and Stay should work for scenarios with me popping into shops etc but it doesn't because he's not relaxed. Perhaps Link is the same?

Sorry for the hijacking Casey...    

Hmmm....I like this. Sort of like Glynda, the good which in Wizard of Oz...."Sleep....Sleeep..." or was that the bad witch with the poppies?

Oh and Casey, I just want to add in on your topic that I have successfully taught Orion not to enter our kitchen at all (unless specifically invited) using a variation of the technique Jeff outlined - out kitchen is totally open plan with no physical boundaries.

Respect based training can get you a very long way, be aware though that it will be a drawn out process. Totally achievable though so good luck!

I'm sure you will do just great

amymeme wrote:

Hmmm....I like this. Sort of like Glynda, the good which in Wizard of Oz...."Sleep....Sleeep..." or was that the bad witch with the poppies?

Hahahaha I never thought of it that way Amy I love it! It was totally the wicked witch...

I may just have to start adding "my pretty" to the end of that command, settle my pretty settle...

I have actually enjoyed the 'hi-jacks'. Thank you all for the advise and encouragement. Please...feel free to continue your conversations.

Okay, I'm going to hi-jack my own thread.

Amy, what kind of harness do you have for Ami in the car? I have bought 2 now, and Loki had broke both of them. The first one, the plastic buckle snapped in half, the second one, the nylon strap broke.

caseysteffans wrote:

Okay, I'm going to hi-jack my own thread.

Amy, what kind of harness do you have for Ami in the car? I have bought 2 now, and Loki had broke both of them. The first one, the plastic buckle snapped in half, the second one, the nylon strap broke.

It's a Kurgo trufit with enhanced strength stainless steel nesting buckles.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=26241&cmpid=01csegpl&ref=6111&subref=AA&CAWELAID=530005150000008243&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=530005150000121344&cadevice=c

Things I like:  the buckles, while difficult to figure out initially, are really easy now and there is one for each side so no stepping into the harness.  Both Ami and now even Archer, stand absolutely still to put the harness on - you just slip it over the head, bring up one side, buckle it then the other side and buckle.  The nylon straps seem sufficiently strong.  Comes with tether for seat belt or, I use it on the child seat anchors on the rear deck - but you need an extra carabiner to do that - the instructions just say to loop it around.  Also, it's fairly inexpensive.

Things I don't like:  It sort of bunches up in the front but I may not have it adjusted properly.  It seems made for a wider chest than Ami.  Also, while this certainly limits his ability to climb in the front seat, safety tests have found the buckles deform in simulated accident conditions.  Also, Ami is 63 pounds and technically, the child seat anchors are limited to 60 pounds - at least the top deck anchors, the in seat anchors are higher rated.

Also, it has a front D-ring for leash attachment in addition to the back clip - I hated they way it jerked up his gait.

It certainly seems sturdy enough - both Archer's and Ami's look new (5 mos and 9 mos since new). Archer's stinks periodically but that's 'cause Archer is the stinkiest dog I've ever encountered.  Hand washing restores the freshness.

Hope this is helpful.  Again, I would not recommend this as a safety harness in an accident - the only one that passed crash tests is way more expensive and rather convoluted.  So I am silently willing the accident gods to be kind:)

Thank you Amy!

What size does Ami wear? 2 months ago (at six months old) Loki was 55lbs and 24 inches at the shoulder and I know he has grown since then as he is taller than my sister's German Shepherd now. I'm going to guess that he is probably a little over 60lbs now. I can't find my tape measure to save my life to measure him! I think I'll take him down to Car Quest tomorrow to have him step on their scale (You have to love small towns lol).

Ami has a large. Good luck measuring him...if Ami sees me coming with ANY tool, substance other than food, he runs for the hills. We have played more "Catch me if you can" around the kitchen table and island than I care to admit He even runs from the topical I use for heartworm And forget it if I have a brush...We won't even begin to discuss the dremel for toenails

Well since we are hijacking. ...

Hi Olivia

Link knows Quiet and Easy which are basically your Settle.  He hangs out in public at cafes and pubs just fine with us.

I just haven't been able to get him to wait outside quietly if for whatever reason he can't come in. Part of the problem for me is if I get him to start out okay and then he starts barking or talking,  well obviously , his motive is to be reunited so then if I return to him for a correction or an Easy/Quiet or just to leave,  then his misbehaving is rewarded because then his motive is fulfilled.  

I can have some success with hand signals (I rarely talk to him) from inside and then waiting for him to be quiet before returning,  but not always.

I don't get to practice enough. If I could stage this scenario better to practice I feel confident I could reach my goal, but that's not easy to do.  Seattle is so dog friendly I don't get to try often and every place that allows dogs has treats, so he expects to be inside with me as a default.

He's so bonded to me and has to "help" with everything.  It's like he can't handle missing out on something.  Lil buddy.