I'm new here. And I'm afraid I'll get my butt handed to me (as when I posed this same question on another site). So, I'll preface this with the fact that I'm not *new* to snow dogs. But, I haven't had one in many, many years. And I have to ask that you play nice in my sandbox because the "other" forum treated me like a stupid, uninformed moron.

I have a nearly 3 year old Husky. She was part of a 3-dog-and-me family. She "happily" accepted her rank as the middle child. Then the Labrador (service dog) died unexpectedly, leaving me with the Husky and a 9-month-old Rott puppy who has been with us for a little over 6 months. With the death of the "Pack Leader", the Husky has become bitchy and snarky toward the pup. I AM the undisputed Leader, however, the Husky not only broke the No-Growling-At-Humans Law, but also went to bite when I tried to start grooming out the blow. She has NEVER shown aggression before but has, from time to time, had to put the puppy in "her place" and I allowed that. But the "puppy" now outweighs the Husky by 20 lbs and the playing field has certainly changed. In an attempt to rule out any underlying physical problems, we found Husky has crepitus in 1 rear knee and a sore opposing hip. We are treating medically for that and limiting interaction with the puppy.

I do believe the Husky is *grieving* the loss of her dog leader and best buddy. I am equally sure she is re-asserting her authority over the pup and testing my leadership. What I am asking here is -- has anyone dealt with GRIEF with their Husky that fundamentally changed their behavior? And If so, what did you do? Did it help to bring the Husky's behavior back to where it used to be?

(I'm a little gun-shy right now because I was accused of not knowing what I was doing; told I had no business owning a Husky; called "stupid" for trying to raise a Rott (for service work) with a Husky; that I should re-home the "poor dog"; was asked what I did *wrong* to CAUSE the death of my so-called service dog "at such a young age" -- as if his traumatic loss to CANCER at age 9 wasn't tragic enough, some faceless keyboard god(dess) actually accused me of neglecting and/or killing him?)

I'm here, desperate to make my once-happy Husky -- happy again. Please don't crucify me for trying to help my dog.

I don't think anyone here would crucify you. You seem like you have a level head and are open to advice. So sorry for the loss of your Lab. Two things:
1) I don't necessarily know if dogs feel "grief" in the sense that we know it, but I know that they definitely can be affected by a change in pack/family. So that could be part of it.
2) The recent diagnosis of hip and knee problems could be a contributor. If she is in pain, she could be showing that through the increased aggression. A member here has a girl who had a sudden change in behavior towards aggression and it turned out she had a slipped disc in her back. Once her pain was being managed, she got a lot better.

I think if it is behavior related to the pack change, it will take time to get back to "normal". And now you know about the medical issues and I'm sure you're treating that best as you can. Hopefully others can chime in with some more help! Good luck!

As mentioned the medical issues may be contributing to the behavior changes - but if you helping the husky that should help.

Grieving
#1) I had a GSD and 2 cats (Foxy shelter & Cocoa dumped into our lap by previous owner). Foxy and the dog grew up together - the slept together played together they were the best buds in the world. The dog passed away and the cat lost it and hard she went "dirty" peeing all over the old dog spots and everything the dog played with.
#2) My mom had a very sensitive loving male cat. He raised a litter of kittens, ducklings, rabbits - he loved everything. One day he killed a mouse on accident (The mouse ran into the wall & died) the cat cried and mourned for the lost of his mouse friend. He would go back to the spot and start crying - My mom ended up getting tranquilizers from the vet to calm him down.
#3) My dad just lost his female chocolate 14 yr lab a few months ago. His other dog who grew up with the female lost 15 lbs and refused to eat. He also had to take him into the vet and put him on calming meds. He is now doing okay but whenever the dog plays with another chocolate lab he gets depressed for a day.

In my opinion animals grief.

Sounds like you are having to re-establish the pack and that can come with some bites and bruises.

1. I'm sorry for the loss of your lab.
2. Of course you can train a rottie as a service dog (assuming she has the right temperament, which many, many of them do)
3. I do think that dogs 'mourn' the loss of a pack member. It might not be in the same way as humans, but it certainly can lead to behavioral changes. (same with adding pack members, as many of us can attest to). Her behavior toward the pup could be from the shift in the pack, but it might also be compounded by pup is getting older and less puppy. Some dogs feel a need to reestablish their hierarchy as pups get older. I usually let them sort it out as long as no one is getting injured. As for her behavior toward you, there are several posters here that give very decent advice on those things (and will hopefully post it here).
4. What was this other forum? (I want to know so that I can avoid them. They sound like a bunch of ass wipes.)

edited to add: 5. welcome to the forum!

Quote :

(I'm a little gun-shy right now because I was accused of not knowing what I was doing; told I had no business owning a Husky; called "stupid" for trying to raise a Rott (for service work) with a Husky; that I should re-home the "poor dog"; was asked what I did *wrong* to CAUSE the death of my so-called service dog "at such a young age" -- as if his traumatic loss to CANCER at age 9 wasn't tragic enough, some faceless keyboard god(dess) actually accused me of neglecting and/or killing him?)

Yeah we're generally a bit more level headed than that.... That's ridiculous.

I'm sorry about your lab. It is never easy losing a pup.


Grieving is normal for pups as well, though they tend to get over it faster than we do. Remember though, any animal can sense emotions or feelings a lot better than we can, and they feed off it. If you are still grieving your pup will be too.

When it comes to a leadership change, there can be other factors that cause behaviour changes. A follower suddenly going into a leadership role after years of not being one is a hard change to make.

It is "normal" for them be annoyed or act out more so than usual as they try and work out exactly what this new position means. Over reactions should be expected. Retraining what is acceptable behaviour would be something I would start doing personally.

Quote :

2) The recent diagnosis of hip and knee problems could be a contributor. If she is in pain, she could be showing that through the increased aggression. A member here has a girl who had a sudden change in behavior towards aggression and it turned out she had a slipped disc in her back. Once her pain was being managed, she got a lot better.

If it is a recent diagnosis, I agree 100%. You could have just touched the pup in a way that triggered that reaction. Something as small as a broken tooth, or too many fleas, can cause a dog to lash out an bite. Making sure pain isn't the issue would indeed be one of my priorities.


Time; to me that's the answer. I would think if you spend some time re-bonding, and understanding each other in the new roles you have both taken it will get better and fall into place in due time.

I'm sure there will be more miss steps before it gets better, but I'm pretty sure it will if you work at it .

Best of luck, and if you need to vent you're more than welcome to do so on the boards

~Chris~

THANK YOU..... for not biting my head off! And it was a major faux pas on my part not to mention that Paddy only died 3 weeks ago (March 8th) and I am completely overwhelmed by my own grief. I'm sure it's transferring to the girls and that's why I'm battling my own demons in an effort to make things right for THEM. (In three short years I lost my Husband to cancer; His 13 year old Heart Dog to cancer; and now my Paddy -- also to cancer so I'm a little rough around the edges).

I did not "name names" because to do so would lend to them a credence they don't deserve. I will say that I was absolutely stunned and shocked at the callous disregard and petty name-calling that was completely undeserved and unwarranted. Not one person offered even a CRUMB of advice. They were too absorbed in the brow beating and bullying. AND, quite frankly, I deserve some anonymity after being told what a piece of crap I was and should not even be "allowed to have dogs if you're disabled". And because I didn't like the "truths" about Huskies being aggressive by nature I should "find some other site that will coddle you the way you want"... REALLY??? Any wonder I was a bit hesitant?

But I must say you have redeemed my faith somewhat. That there are Breed forums who care about the DOGS without some unfulfilled need to be judge and jury. For that, you have my heartfelt thanks.

I recently watched a Cesar Milan episode dealing with a very similar situation- and I wish I could remember which one. But basically the owners' grief at losing the other pet was causing the dog to be confused and started acting innappropriately and out of charachter with its former pack status. Cesar worked with the family to re-establish the relationship. I know it was on Netflix under "best of the dog whisperer." A lot of people don't care for Cesar or his methods but personally I think the guy knows his stuff. Hope you get some results with your dog soon, and welcome to the forum!

Quote :

And because I didn't like the "truths" about Huskies being aggressive by nature I should "find some other site that will coddle you the way you want"

My "aggressive by nature" Huskies apparently never got the memo.








Ignorant people who don't take the time to research and just spout nonsense make me fear for the world some days.....

Either way Welcome.... You're amongst "somewhat" more sane people here I would think

~Chris~

I'm so sorry for your loss, and the way you were treated on the other forum. That is flat out ridiculous for people to act that way. It's such a shame that all that has happened to you, and then careless people feel the need to make you feel worse. They should all be slapped. I don't have any advice to offer, but I wish you the best of luck! Welcome to the forum!

Welcome I have not advice to add.
I think you will find this a good bunch of husky owners that know their stuff.
I have l;earned alot by reading several topics.
I have learn so much about my huskies since I got my first one about 20 months ago.
At the time I had no idea what I was getting into.

Now we have two they are like potato chips you can't just have one.

Sorry for how you were treated on the other forum! No clue if it will help, but maybe give each pup some one on one time. Take your husky out and about and do something fun and the same with the rottie pup at a different time.

And that's so silly about raising a rottie to be a service dog with a husky. I know a lot of rotties who are or would make great service dogs and there are a few husky service dogs on this forum! You don't often see husky service dogs, but they do exist!

We should want anyone and everyone to feel free and comfortable enough to come on here to ask questions and request advice. If anyone gets out of line and attacks you for trying to get help, the rest of us should police this board and "banish them from the island" by getting the moderators involved. I know I have little tolerance for negativity. When you have a nice and welcoming community, the last thing you need is a bad seed to ruin it for everyone else. I have yet to see any negativity on this board, and hopefully we can keep it that way.

Wow, sorry you were treated badly on another board. Really sorry to here of the loss of your lab, it's never easy no matter when it happens! Animals do grieve, and yes our grief can spill onto them as well. Without meaning too, or trying to we change our demeanor. My dogs know when I am sad and they always come up to me and help in their own way.

And yes the husky could be also reacting to her pain, so you are right to be checking into that as well. Good luck to you and again so sorry for your loss.

I have the female with a slipped disk and it does get better. She had been in a lot of pain and I read it incorrectly and I still feel bad about it. Regardless, managing the pain will help. Please do not punish her when acting out due to pain - the growl is a warning. if you punish her for it you may not get A warning next time. I just leave delilah in her bed or on the couch when shes hurting and dont crowd her or excessively pet her. my girl is a sweetie, but she has bad moments if she hurts.

Sorry about the loss of your pup

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's awful to lose a dog you've had for a long time, especially to cancer.

Good gracious, someone must have eaten those other people's bowls of sunshine... -_- That was awfully rude of them to treat you that way.

I don't have much to add to what's already been said but I do want to say that I'm sorry for your loss! I just lost my 7 year old lab to cancer last fall. There's an old quote that goes something like "A dog's only fault is that he doesn't live long enough" - how true that is!

Plus, I want to say, I'm on a lot of forums and this one is the nicest out of all of them. Some of the nicest people, friendly atmosphere...you won't find any of those grumps here... lol

I'd brought Zoe (the Husky) to the vet last week (3/25) to rule out any underlying physical issues and that's when the knee/hip issue came to light. She was put on Prevacox and I was advised to limit her interaction with Mia (Rottie pup). Also, in an effort to give Zoe more "space" took down the baby gate between the Living Room and the "front room" and she took up residence in Ed's old, ratty recliner (that I should have gotten rid of long ago but simply can't force myself to trash it). Zoe seems quite content to spend most of her days in that chair, poking her head into the Living Room from time to time to check on things and, occasionally, hopping up on the couch with me for some snuggle time. She has not had the opportunity to squabble with Mia because, much to the pup's chagrin, I won't allow "play" to progress beyond a simple tug-o-war.

Prior to Paddy's death, we always played as a group. Actually, since Paddy was a very reserved gentleman, it was more a case of him and me watching the girls play Hide-N-Seek and Mutual Chase.... with the occasional "battle" over a tree limb here and there. Now, since Zoe got snarky, I take each one out in turn for extra-long walks and one-on-one playtime. Zoe might well be uncomfortable or in pain, but she shows no sign of lameness (nor did she when I initially took her to the Vet). But, because the Prevacox must be taken on a full belly of food, the medication has been hit and miss because she hasn't been eating well/right since Paddy left.

The puppy never had, nor does she seemingly now have, any problem being low man in the ranks. But she HAS discovered she doesn't have to put up with Zoe's crap anymore simply because she's no longer smaller and weaker. By the same token, Mia is not *aware* that she could and maybe DID hurt Zoe in one of the initial squabbles that I maybe allowed to go too far (yup, there's the guilt popping up again... that this is ALL my fault, right down to Paddy's death -- 'cuz had I NOT authorized surgery to look for a *possible* bowel obstruction, the tumors would have remained undetected and I wouldn't have been forced to make the decision I had to make). So the dogs aren't the only ones struggling with the new dynamics in the household; my own grief and guilt are negatively affecting their world. And it's *killing* me that my once happy and well-adjusted Husky has been thrown into a mess that I can't seem to fix.

I'm out of ideas and continue to welcome any and all suggestions.

We just lost our lab of almost 10 years to cancer a few months back. I just wanted to say how sorry I am. It is still hard on us. Just tonight my 7 year old son asked if genies were real so he could wish for Kodi back sorry you had to deal with such rude comments while you are still grieving...or anytime...UN called for. I hope your husky starts feeling better soon. I have found this place to be full of wonderful helpful people.

I can't add to the topic, BUT I had to share you are not dumb about training a rott for service work! My great Dane is my service dog, and my very dear friend s training her rott pup (2 yrs old) for Service work

I came across the article on how animals grieve. I have not read it entirely. was hoping it might give you some insight and understanding.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201304/how-animals-grieve-saying-goodbye-family-and-friends

MelCole wrote:

So the dogs aren't the only ones struggling with the new dynamics in the household; my own grief and guilt are negatively affecting their world.

Grief is one thing. Everyone grieves in their own way in their own time. If you let them they will help you through this as you help them. Thats one of the best things about dogs, they don't judge and they won't hold this against you.

But please do not feel guilt over any of this.

It is not your fault that you made the worst of discoveries and hardest of choices for Paddy. It is a tragedy. Plain and simple. There is not blame to be had here.

It is also not your fault that an injury may, or may not, have occured during a squabble. These things sometimes happen. Sometimes we know how they happened and other times we have no clue. Even the best pet parents, or for that matter parents in general, miss things. We call them accidents for a reason.

The fact that you are looking for help is all the proof I need that you are being the best pet parent you can be.

As for advice, I'm afraid I don't have much. I know that our community has a support group that meets at the library every week for people who have lost their pets. Maybe see if there is something like that available in your neighborhood.

Thank you all, for taking the time to help. My previous spitz-type dogs were "only children" (single dog household) so I've never experienced Doggy Grief or such a disruption of the pack dynamics.

I brought her to the Vet today for a blood draw to run a full metabolic panel. I'm happy to report she was much less growly, no snapping or even lip-curling as she was poked and prodded... and grudgingly allowed her nails to be trimmed. I'll have results on the blood tomorrow.

A benchmark, I think -- Zoe hasn't been eating very much at all since Paddy left (only about 800 calories per WEEK). She and he used to eat side by side in a raised feeder. Tonight, I decided that since I'm in the kitchen while the puppy eats anyway, I might as well go ahead and try to put the girls together at the feeder. A single correction to the puppy, Zoe came to the table and ate her food (YAYYYYYY). Of course, it wasn't a "full meal" because she's NOT eating and I've been offering only 1/2 meals to her to avoid tummy issues (and waste). But she ATE! I'll know in the morning if it was a fluke or a solution.

If I can re-establish some of her routine, I'm hoping (barring serious medical issues) I'll get some semblance of my happy-go-lucky doofus back in the near future.

Thanks again for your kind words, wisdom and caring. You're helping to get me thru a pretty rough patch and mere "thanks" seems very inadequate.

Hi Mel!

I'm glad that she is doing better! I am sorry for your many losses as well.

My first family dog was named "Codi", and he was a yellow lab. He actually saved my dad's life--who is struggling with heart disease. (He had a tripple bypass at 32.) My father was told by the doctors he was supposed to have "one year left" 21 years ago. He couldn't even walk from his recliner to the door without being out of breath. Our family friend had yellow lab puppies and gave us one, and since my Dad was the only one home he was forced to take care of him during the day. He would take him outside for a short time... and going potty turned to a small walk to the next door neighbors, until a few months later he was able to walk Codi the corner. Codi actually saved my dad's life! We lost him to cancer a few years back as well and it was one of the hardest moments we've all had to get through.

Like others have said too, this forum is full of amazing people that are always willing to give input or lend an ear or suggestions. They're all some of the nicest people I've had the pleasure of meeting over the internet!

My only advice is (and its not advice, just a thought): any dog can make a great service dog! When I found out I could train Kouda, our new baby Husky, to help me I was overjoyed!

I do wish you the best of luck with everything, and please keep us updated!

So glad to hear that things are improving. Keep up the great work and remember we are all rooting for you!

Okaaaaaay..... so I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. But Zoe's bloodwork came back absolutely, positively perfect. Liver, Kidney, Thyroid, "Lady Hormone", Lyme, Anaplasmosis, blood sugar, cholesterol, -- you name it, it's NOT the problem. So, in a nutshell, I've got a poorly-bred Husky (I'm sure) with crepitus in a knee and some level of hip displaysia, who doesn't want to eat very often and remains untrustworthy around the puppy.

Moving on....... yes, there's a *small* physical basis for her behavior. But it's seemingly more a "mental" issue. Pat's only been gone 4 weeks so I have to keep that in mind and give it more than a little weight in the equation. It's hard for me to imagine that something went quirky in her brain at the same time the pack dynamics took a dramatic shift. So giving her the benefit of the doubt, we're going to continue to limit her interaction with the pup; I'll continue to spend a good amount of one-on-one time with her -- taking her for walks and playing to try to stimulate her mind.....
I've been working with Mia almost as much as Zoe... trying to modify her annoying puppy behavior which is what Zoe is not willing to tolerate. She has the ability to "escape" the pup now simply by walking into the front room (where Mia is not allowed).
This morning, THIS:

helped my heart immensely! As long as Mia didn't annoy, Zoe seemed to be okay with the pup napping next to her. It's given me a little bit of hope that they will -- someday -- once again be able to peacefully co-exist.