I'm writing this very tearful message unwillingly, but I'm desperate for any help/advise I may get. Last night, around 11:30 pm Hayden (possibly Nicky too, but I'm not 100% sure) attacked Maddy my seven year old 3 pounds Yorkshire Terrier and she passed away almost immediately.

They have never had any problems in the past, only if they entered into the kitchen (that's where he solely is fed and is very territorial of it). We have corrected this and had several trainers helping with this situation.

This is what happened, we were all getting in bed as we usually do and I heard a strange knocking on my floor. I went halfway down my stairs to see if I could see something. Maddy is my shadow and ALWAYS right behind me, so that's where I thought she was. Not even 30 seconds had passed since I left my room and I heard Nicky and Hayden get in a little scuffle behind my bedroom door (it was halfway closed) and I yelled at them "break it up, go to bed"! That's when I looked and I pulled back the door to discover her lifeless body trying to hold on for dear life. I screamed hysterically and everyone came running in to try to help, but not even 3 minutes had gone by before she passed.

My heart is absolutely broken right now ... I have no idea what to do at this point. I've been trying to figure out what could have caused him to do this, but their was no toys, food, or any reason for him to have done this. I never leave them alone together, because she is ALWAYS right next to me or behind me.


I'm at such a loss, because I'm mourning my sweet little baby, but at the same time I'm so mad at Hayden! My family is talking about what we should do with him and even though I'm absolutely devastated by the whole situation more than anyone, I still love Hayden despite what he did and don't want him going anywhere. I'm going to have to convince my family now to give him a second chance, but at the same time I'm crushed about this whole thing ....

I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine what you are going through. I also can't offer any advice on the situation. I don't know what I would do. Very sorry for your loss.

I'm so sorry Kelly. RIP Maddy.

I'm so sorry. It's so hard to lose a beloved pet to another.

Heartbreaking.

I'm extremely sorry for your loss.... I wish I could offer or do more Sadly there are no words

Without being in the room and seeing exactly what happened I couldn't begin to guess what triggered the altercation...

If there were no warning signs prior to this and they got along fine I would assume it would have been play or wrestling gone too far, and an accident happened.


I don't see how it could have been anything else, but again I'm not privy to this whole situation.


Again I am terribly sorry for your loss, and if anything like that happened to any of my animals I would be mortified as well

Best wishes to you and yours and may Maddy run free.
~Chris~

my little shadow

I think you probably know I went through something similar about 3 weeks ago with Titus grabbed a toy poodle about 4lbs and killed it almost immediately. Well that was because he was tethered to a bench and the toy poodle was possibly trying to take the dog treats out from my bag which is beside Titus. I put that down as an overprotective instinct because he is always skittish and will get some training on.

If I remember correctly, Hayden is a just over a year old. I would think that a puppy at that age will not have an instinct to kill another dog that has been living with him. Titus was really nice to Lycan even when I first got him and Lycan was just a handful of fluff. Considering the size of Maddy, I would think that this is an accident caused by the rough play of huskies. Without being there myself, I couldn't be sure of it but that is my closest guess. It is possible that Hayden and Nicky were playing with Maddy and got a little too rough. Is there any punctured wounds on Maddy?

I wouldn't blame everything on Hayden just yet as we did not saw what happened actually. Try keeping an eye on him and see his behavior around other dogs. If he is fine with all the other animals, there is a high possibility that it was an accident. Accidents happen when big dogs plays too rough with little ones.

I hope you feel better soon. Please keep us updated if you feel up to it.

I am so sorry for your loss!! I lost my yorkie a few years ago and she was my 'shadow' as well. It's heartbreaking.
I wish i could offer you words of advice about hayden, it sounds like it was play gone wrong, but its hard to tell.
I'll be praying for you and your family.

She looks precious, so so sorry for your loss . I can't even imagine.

I think Michelle gave you some excellent advice. Don't be too quick to judge (or have your family judge) Hayden.

I think everyone here can tell you it's the risk we take when animals of very different sizes are in close proximity. We often forget dogs are driven by instinct not reason.

My dog Blaze was sent to the shelter for supposedly killing a cat. He is a wonderful dog and gets along fine with my other 3 but I just don't let him around small animals.

Kelly, I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds like maybe Maddy got between Nicky and Hayden when they were scuffling and it was an unfortunate accident. But, hard to be sure when nobody witnessed it.

Titus&Lycan wrote:

I think you probably know I went through something similar about 3 weeks ago with Titus grabbed a toy poodle about 4lbs and killed it almost immediately. Well that was because he was tethered to a bench and the toy poodle was possibly trying to take the dog treats out from my bag which is beside Titus. I put that down as an overprotective instinct because he is always skittish and will get some training on.

If I remember correctly, Hayden is a just over a year old. I would think that a puppy at that age will not have an instinct to kill another dog that has been living with him. Titus was really nice to Lycan even when I first got him and Lycan was just a handful of fluff. Considering the size of Maddy, I would think that this is an accident caused by the rough play of huskies. Without being there myself, I couldn't be sure of it but that is my closest guess. It is possible that Hayden and Nicky were playing with Maddy and got a little too rough. Is there any punctured wounds on Maddy?

I wouldn't blame everything on Hayden just yet as we did not saw what happened actually. Try keeping an eye on him and see his behavior around other dogs. If he is fine with all the other animals, there is a high possibility that it was an accident. Accidents happen when big dogs plays too rough with little ones.

I hope you feel better soon. Please keep us updated if you feel up to it.

Thank you Michelle. Yes, there were puncture wounds and I fear it was not out of play. I heard Nicky and Hayden get into a fight and apparently it wasn't between the two of them, it was with Maddy. I'm not sure if they ganged up on her or what. I'm not sure if Hayden saw Nicky playing with Maddy and thought she was attacking and he joined in aggressively or what....I'm just in a really tough spot, because my mom is saying he's a dangerous dog and doesn't want anything to do with him. I'm so upset about this whole thing that I can't even keep it together for a couple minutes before breaking down and my mom is expecting me to make immediate rash decisions as to what to do with Hayden. I'm just not knowing what to do right now.

I am so sorry to hear this. I have a little 8 year old, 4lb yorki-poo who is always at my side. I can't even imagine life without her. I would be heartbroken if she was taken from me and even more so if it was by one of my other dogs. My condolences are all I can offer. This is a devastating situation for you to be in.

Kelly I am so sorry for your loss. Just take it one day at a time. I would think about it for a day or so before making any rash decisions just make sure your mother does the same. Remember emotions are very high so just give her time. She might forgive Hayden in a few days. You and your family will be in our thoughts.

I'm am so sorry for you. That's the situation we always fear with our two cats. I would not let your mom make any rash descisions about it. Let things calm down first.

I think it's a point of perspective. After Titus case, my mum actually told me to send Titus over to Malaysia where she can take care of him before I go there in January. Titus is leaving on the 12th November.

I still wouldn't say Hayden is dangerous yet before a behavior test as there was no prior incident to this. From what I know after Titus case, a fully grown dog can control the force of their bite but a puppy can't. That's why there is no puncture wounds on the poodle that Titus killed because Titus is 18 months old, he can control his bite force but cannot control the weight he put on the poodle. We often heard people saying that their puppy bites hard when excited. As Hayden just turned one, he is still not fully grown and may not be able to control how hard he bites when he is excited.
Put it this way if a one year old Yorkshire Terrier was playing excitedly with a seven year old husky and accidentally bites the husky. A puppy nibble can turn out to be really hard when they are excited. Considering the size different, that bite will not cause much damage and most people will just laugh off about a big dog being bitten by a little one. However if a big dog injures a little one, that dog will most definitely be deemed as vicious, dangerous etc.

I have small dogs at home too but all dogs work on instinct. They won't think about whether to bite or to nibble. Have a think about it. Hayden is still a puppy and there were no prior incident to this. He was never aggressive and have lived together with Maddy for some time. If you think he might do it again, you can try on some specialized training. There is no need to send him away. Nicky will get depressed too.

I'm so sorry for your loss
Take one day at a time and really think about what to do, in this case if you were to turn him over to a shelter with them knowing what happend I think he would be put down. this sounds like a freak bad accadent since you have not had issues in the past

Titus&Lycan wrote:

I think it's a point of perspective. After Titus case, my mum actually told me to send Titus over to Malaysia where she can take care of him before I go there in January. Titus is leaving on the 12th November.

I still wouldn't say Hayden is dangerous yet before a behavior test as there was no prior incident to this. From what I know after Titus case, a fully grown dog can control the force of their bite but a puppy can't. That's why there is no puncture wounds on the poodle that Titus killed because Titus is 18 months old, he can control his bite force but cannot control the weight he put on the poodle. We often heard people saying that their puppy bites hard when excited. As Hayden just turned one, he is still not fully grown and may not be able to control how hard he bites when he is excited.
Put it this way if a one year old Yorkshire Terrier was playing excitedly with a seven year old husky and accidentally bites the husky. A puppy nibble can turn out to be really hard when they are excited. Considering the size different, that bite will not cause much damage and most people will just laugh off about a big dog being bitten by a little one. However if a big dog injures a little one, that dog will most definitely be deemed as vicious, dangerous etc.

I have small dogs at home too but all dogs work on instinct. They won't think about whether to bite or to nibble. Have a think about it. Hayden is still a puppy and there were no prior incident to this. He was never aggressive and have lived together with Maddy for some time. If you think he might do it again, you can try on some specialized training. There is no need to send him away. Nicky will get depressed too.

I read this to my mom and it sort of changed her mind. We are turning one of our spare small rooms into Hayden's room and he'll stay there during the day while we work. Thank you! I also contacted a behaviorist and I'm waiting for their reply.

I'm so very very sorry for your loss. RIP little Maddy. Run free.

Was the door closed? Where are the dog beds in the room? I'm wondering if Maddy got off her bed (wherever it is) to follow you, but the door was shut or mostly shut and she had to pass by Hayden and Nicky while they slept or was falling asleep? Could they have felt that Maddy was invading their safe space? Or Maddie woke them up and frightened them?

I don't think a puncture wound indicates that it was an intentional kill. Not at all. So please don't think that or let your family think that

Koda wrote:

I'm so very very sorry for your loss. RIP little Maddy. Run free.

Was the door closed? Where are the dog beds in the room? I'm wondering if Maddy got off her bed (wherever it is) to follow you, but the door was shut or mostly shut and she had to pass by Hayden and Nicky while they slept or was falling asleep? Could they have felt that Maddy was invading their safe space? Or Maddie woke them up and frightened them?

I don't think a puncture wound indicates that it was an intentional kill. Not at all. So please don't think that or let your family think that

The door was partially closed and Hayden sleeps on the bed and Maddy was under the bed going to the door to follow me I'm assuming. Hayden and Nicky both were on the floor near the door. Nicky lately has been pestering the crap out of Maddy pinning her down playing and maybe Hayden saw her trying to do that and joined in. Only thing I heard was a snarl/fight break out (I honestly thought it was Nicky and Hayden going at it) and then discovered Maddy. She didn't even make a sound ... which is odd, because she's usually very vocal and if someone is pissing her off then she does a high pitch yippy bark.

My mom said she had a pretty deep gash under her armpit on her front leg and was also bleeding from her mouth and nose badly.

Oh my goodness Kelly, I'm so so so sorry for your loss. I can't even imagine what you're going through. I'm so sorry

Hayden_69 wrote:

Titus&Lycan wrote:

I think you probably know I went through something similar about 3 weeks ago with Titus grabbed a toy poodle about 4lbs and killed it almost immediately. Well that was because he was tethered to a bench and the toy poodle was possibly trying to take the dog treats out from my bag which is beside Titus. I put that down as an overprotective instinct because he is always skittish and will get some training on.

If I remember correctly, Hayden is a just over a year old. I would think that a puppy at that age will not have an instinct to kill another dog that has been living with him. Titus was really nice to Lycan even when I first got him and Lycan was just a handful of fluff. Considering the size of Maddy, I would think that this is an accident caused by the rough play of huskies. Without being there myself, I couldn't be sure of it but that is my closest guess. It is possible that Hayden and Nicky were playing with Maddy and got a little too rough. Is there any punctured wounds on Maddy?

I wouldn't blame everything on Hayden just yet as we did not saw what happened actually. Try keeping an eye on him and see his behavior around other dogs. If he is fine with all the other animals, there is a high possibility that it was an accident. Accidents happen when big dogs plays too rough with little ones.

I hope you feel better soon. Please keep us updated if you feel up to it.

Thank you Michelle. Yes, there were puncture wounds and I fear it was not out of play. I heard Nicky and Hayden get into a fight and apparently it wasn't between the two of them, it was with Maddy. I'm not sure if they ganged up on her or what. I'm not sure if Hayden saw Nicky playing with Maddy and thought she was attacking and he joined in aggressively or what....I'm just in a really tough spot, because my mom is saying he's a dangerous dog and doesn't want anything to do with him. I'm so upset about this whole thing that I can't even keep it together for a couple minutes before breaking down and my mom is expecting me to make immediate rash decisions as to what to do with Hayden. I'm just not knowing what to do right now.

Run free, Maddy.

Please don't make any permenant decisions based on temporary reactions. Emotions are running high right now and I don't want you (or your mom) to make the wrong choice.

As many others have said, it sounds like a freak accident. About a month ago, a yorkie owner brought her toy yorkie to the big dog side of the dog park (supposed to be 20lbs or more at least - there are signs!). Long story short, a lab played too rough with the yorkie (I think it got pushed around too much). He passed on the way to the hospital.

I understand there are puncture wounds... Maybe Hayden and Nikki were playing with each other and Maddy stepped in at the exact wrong time and interfered as they were biting each other.

You are doing the right thing right now to separate Hayden and seek a specialist.

I'm very sorry for your loss. I wish I could help. I hope my input helped a little bit.

I just called the vet and the tech told me it was internal bleeding and given the size different between the two it's no surprise it was quick.I'm just glad she didn't suffer.

I am so sorry for what happened Kelly.

I agree with the above, when everyone has calmed down a bit, you can approach the topic. If there was no bite marks, it might have been just a wrong place wrong time thing.

I wish you luck with working this out and all my sympathy.

Run Free Maddy


Kelly

Again, I still think accident. If Maddy had gotten out from her spot and was walking towards the door, and Hayden and Nicky were playing... she could have EASILY gotten in the way. Or perhaps they thought she was coming to play when she was just going to follow you. Again.. easy mistake to happen.

I agree in that puncture wounds (regardless of how deep) don't indicate intent. Think about it. If Nicky and Hayden were playing, they are used to biting each other--HARD. If Maddy got in the way and it was an accident, it makes sense that the puncture wounds were deep... because Hayden thought he was grabbing Nicky or used to grabbing Nicky and didn't control/think.

Does that make sense? Don't look at the bite marks and immediately think that because they are deep, there is necessarily some major problem.

However, I agree that separating Hayden and seeking a behaviorist is the best course of action right now... if anything, I think it will just reinforce that it was an accident.