Hey everyone,

Royce is 4 months old now, and we've had him since he was 2 months. The minute we brought him home, we've crate trained him. It was a rough road, but we're at the point now, where he will walk into his kennel, no problem, and go to sleep 5 minutes later. The only problem is, he usually wakes up about 3-4 hours later, whining and howling. 75% of the time, he actually has to go outside and use the bathroom, but the 25% is he just wanted to get out. We've literally done every trick in the book and he really doesn't seem to enjoy his kennel. Every time, before he walks in, we throw a few treats in, so he doesn't think it's a bad place. I'm not exaggerating when I say this, but I haven't gotten a full nights sleep in over 2 months.
I find this strange, because when it came to potty training, we went with the pee pad route at first, which he literally caught on to the 2nd day he was brought home.
Sidenote: I highly recommend NEVER using the pee pad for training. It might be fine the first few weeks or so, because the puppy will be so small, but as they grow, so does the size of their potty breaks.
Anyways, when we took away the pee pad, which we had used for a good month or so, it was about two days later, where he just stopped going in the house. Now, whenever he has to use the bathroom, he will walk up to the door and wait.
I don't understand why he won't stay or even enjoy his kennel, especially after 2 months. Like I said before, he will always go in quietly, but if he hears one of us move to use the bathroom or a few hours later, he will instantly wake up and bark and howl for as long as it takes. We've ignored it numerous times, which has worked, but we're at the point where he will just go in his kennel if we wait too long, so we're hesitant. It's funny, because he will bark and howl if he has to go outside, but will whimper and moan if he just wants to get out, so thankfully, it's easy to tell, but I still can't believe he does it.
When I wake up around 6ish to feed him, I take him out, so he can go potty, but then I'll leave him out of his kennel and go back to sleep for a few more hours. Ever since I've done that, he hasn't gone in the house once. I've even left him out, by himself, for 5 hours and miraculously, no accidents. Should I just suck it up for the next few months, until I know his bladder is fully grown and keep him in his kennel, or should I just leave him out from now on and risk having him go to the bathroom in the middle of the night and wake up to land mines and pee all over the living room?

Well, I might've spoken too soon. As you can see, I posted my first post at 3:00 am, because I was up with the dog. I had left him out, so I could catch up on some sleep, thinking I could wake up 6:30 (which I did), let him out and feed him. It was only 3 hours, so I figured that I could keep him out for that long, since he hasn't had troubles in the past.
I wake up, turn on the light, to see no pee or poop in what used to be his "go-to" areas. Nothing. I was pretty happy, thinking this might be the right step into thinking about just letting him roam at night time, but maybe 10 seconds after thinking that, as I head to the sink, I step in cold pee. I was so disappointed, because I was convinced he had his potty training under control and I had taken him out not 2 hours ago, to where he relieved himself. I don't know what to do now, as I'm growing weary.
Our main goal is to have him sleep on the bed with us, without us worrying about him jumping down and getting into things or going potty in the middle of the night. It doesn't look like it's happening any time soon.

Well no hard-hitting advice here, but glad to know I don't have the same problem! Seriously, at first I had Yuki sleeping with me. But then she kept peeing in the bed >< So I switched her over to the crate. She doesn't have any issues hating it, she'll go in and out whenever she wants to and I keep the door open during the day and will find her taking naps in there, but when its time for bed the same thing happens around 5, 6am, she HAS to get out. It's not that she has to pee or poop, but its like shes trying to dictate my schedule and she wants to get up and play NOW. Usually when I hear her whining I will let her outside just in case, and whether she goes or doesn't go we come back inside and I put her back in the crate, after lots of praise if she goes. And once she's back in the crate, that's when she will whine and howl and cry like a madman until its impossible for me to go back to sleep unless I let her out. Which means three to four hours of me trying to ignore her whining because I don't want her to win. I'll be watching this thread for advice on this as well, because it makes potty training her hard when I'm fatigued and haven't had a full nights sleep since I got her a month ago xD

We had very similar issues with our puppy. Once we got past the first week with him, he settled into being in his crate very nicely and comfortably. For some reason at around 4 months old he changed his mind and decided that he didn't want to be in his crate anymore at bedtime. My husband and I struggled with what to do. We kept worrying about going by the book, until finally we were so sleep deprived that we decided to just go with what we thought would work best. Qannik hasn't slept in his crate since then. He has slept on our bedroom floor soundly ever since.

I let Nikko sleep in the bed with me, and he is 10 months old. However, he was about 6 months old before I started letting him. When I started letting him sleep on the bed I would close my bedroom door, so if he jumped down there was less to get into. Now I am at the point where I just put a gate at the stairs and allow him access to the 2nd floor. (I live in a 2 bedroom townhouse so the 2nd floor is only about 600 sq ft)
For the first 3 months he never jumped down from the bed, but lately he will jump to the floor and sleep under the window. I noticed that he does not get good sleep on the bed, and is always moving around, so I think he is happier sleeping on the floor.
As for crate training: When I first got Nikko when he was 2 months old I was getting up every 2-3 hours with him to take him outside. He would start howling and crying and for 2 weeks I got about 4 hours sleep. I asked my vet about this and he said the puppy was training ME! He said they can hold it throughout the night and should be sleeping. If you get them accustomed to being let out during the night they will expect it and it will be a hard habit to break. That very night I put him in the crate and didn’t let him out until 6am. I have been sleeping 7 hours a night since then!

When I got Yukon he would howl and cry when I put him in his crate. I had his crate right by my bed and would give it a tap and that would quiet him down for awhile. He also woke me up at 5am every day, and I would get up early with him, but I think it was because he just wanted out, or he was hungry. I had to train him that feeding time isn’t until 6, which took a few weeks.
Now his crate is in the other bedroom, so I will put him in there at night. If he starts howling I will ignore him or I will close the door. He sleeps in there fine, but will still get up earlier than I would like. This week I let him sleep in the bed with me and he has done great, and actually let me sleep a little longer! Nikko still prefers the floor.

What I would suggest if you want him to sleep in bed:

 Take the water away 2 hours before bedtime.
 Make sure he goes potty before bedtime.
 Keep him in the bedroom and just shut the doors to limit his access in case he does jump off.
 Tire him out! Make sure he has plenty of exercise and he hasn’t napped all evening so he will be ready for sleep.

I haven’t had it happen with either of my pups, but if you let him sleep in the bed, he might dislike his kennel even more and it might be harder to get over the SA.

It's a VERY slow process, but Royce is starting to get a little better. To be completely honest, I think he is not a kennel-dog. The past two nights, I have fought the urge to let him out of his kennel, but he will literally cry, non-stop for a solid 2-3 hours. The only reason I fall asleep, is because my body is literally so exhausted, that it just blocks out the sound completely, which wouldn't be so bad, if it didn't take an hour or so to get to the point. He still goes into his kennel quietly, but it's at the point now, where he starts crying an hour into being in his kennel. There are times (rarely) where he will sleep til about 3-4 am, then will wake up, but that's usually because he has to go to the bathroom (he rushes to the door and wimpers, until I let him out, then he goes like he's been holding it the entire day). After that, I have tried putting him back in his kennel, but literally the second I do, he howls, barks and cries, until I have to wake up anyways at 7 am. I find this very strange, because if I leave for the day (on rare occasions, do I go into the place I work. They send me all of my work, so I'm usually home almost all of the time), I put him in his kennel and he doesn't make a peep. And when I come home, he usually just stares at me, but it's when the other dog starts crying with excitement, that he perks up and will beg me to get him out of his kennel! Sure, that's a nice thing to come home to, but I don't understand why he won't act the same way at night.
Since he is doing excellent with potty training, what I have been doing, is letting him out of his kennel the second go around and put a gate up, so he only has access to the living room and kitchen (we live in a small apartment, so he doesn't have a ton of room to move around in). He stays completely silent for a solid 5-6 hours. I've done this for about 2 weeks now and out of those two weeks, he's only peed twice (both times were my fault, since both of those times, I was so exhausted, that I just let him out, neglecting to take him out). But I really have tried every bit of advice you have given me. I think I just have a stubborn puppy! I've even tried playing with him outside to the point where he waits and lays by the door, because he's so exhausted, but it still doesn't make a difference.
The reason we aren't letting him on the bed yet, is because 1.) We want to wait about a month of perfect potty training, so we don't have to be concerned about him going in the middle of the night in the bedroom and 2.) Our other dog, a 14 pound shih-poo mix, sleeps on the bed with us. The two of them get along, to a certain extent, but I would be writing pages upon pages of questions about that, so I'll save that for another time! In short, we're just concerned at this point, that they'll have a tough time sharing the bed.
I really do believe that Royce is just not a kennel dog. We've been at it for 2 months, and it seems to be more of a miss, than a hit. There has only been one night, where he miraculously slept through the entire night and we actually woke him up. I have no idea what to do, though, since he seems completely fine being in the kennel throughout the day, but just not at night.