Koda wrote:

Balonsmom wrote:

Tori, I am not missing your point, I already addressed your point by saying in my earlier post that of course I don't really know if he knows what he's doing, and of course you could be right, he may not know what he is doing. I mean they can't tell us or talk to us about it. I do understand that he may be reacting to my displeasure, makes perfect sense! Ruby does!

Fair enough. It just didn't seem like you understood what I was saying since you kept responding about you not yelling.

Sorry Tori I was at work using my iphone and I couldn't always see what I said so I am sure I repeated myself lol

Ok just got the results from the culture, it was negative, is it wrong for me to say I wished it was positive just so I could have an easy fix for poor Balon.

I am waiting for the vet to call me with her recommendations as to what I should do next! Will keep everyone informed. Maybe this will help someone else as well, who knows!

Sorry there isn't a quick fix. I feel for you, Char is a stop and pee dog no squating or lifting. He really doesn't show signs except that he freezes, but that doesn't give you time to react. Luckily for me he has been doing well with using his bells to let us know when he has to go. I hope you find a solution soon.

Charsmom wrote:

Sorry there isn't a quick fix. I feel for you, Char is a stop and pee dog no squating or lifting. He really doesn't show signs except that he freezes, but that doesn't give you time to react. Luckily for me he has been doing well with using his bells to let us know when he has to go. I hope you find a solution soon.

Thanks me too! Never had this problem before but there is a first time for everything. Good thing is I have insurance for him and I am not afraid to use it

I don't know if this helps but i had the same issue with Willow when I got her. I got so fed up with how often she had accidents that i finally turned to using a timer. I literally had to set a timer to take her outside every 15 minutes. She always peed when I let her out but she still managed to have accidents even after i started the 15 minute timer. Once she stopped having accidents in between the 15 minutes then I would gradually add 5 minutes to the timer until she finally "got" it. It took forever and I had never had such a hard time house training a puppy like I did with her. I want to say it was past 6 months of age before I could stop using the timer. Not once did she ever have an accident at night though AND she got to sleep out of a crate after the first two weeks of having her. Now she can go 4 hours + before she needs to go outside.

Everything you're saying sounds medical. Embry used to pee and not even realize he was doing it. He'd be laying in the car and was just start peeing, and would walk around the house and just start peeing. We just keep treating it as a UTI. The antibiotic makes it go away for 4-6 months.

My vet will not put him on an antibiotic when the culture comes back clear! Now tonight, no accidents at all. Not even one. Yes we took him out more, but that's why this is so weird, some days are good, some are bad? I am going to ask for a trial of antibiotics but I bet she'll say no!

I am going to talk to my vet tomorrow, she had an emergency tonight and couldn't call me back. But I remember her telling me when I asked about this problem before he was neutered that sometimes "the plumbing isn't connected right" what the heck does that mean?

She is the type that will do every test known to mankind and then some to find the problem lol. This can be good and bad! I usually have to start small with her.

Culture back already? Urine cultures take at LEAST 24 hours, if nothing grows in that time, we give them another 24 just to be safe. Those results are really fast...

Yes it was dropped off at 8am, and they called me at 5:30, the initial statement is negative, they will let it culture for all of today and give secondary results. Which the vet said will be negative as well.

I thought it was fast as well, but she said they were preliminary results and the second part will come back today.

He acts just like my lab did when she had a uti, that's why its wierd, and last night, he didn't do it it all which makes it so weird!

I would.suggest trying a different vet, but that's my opinion. Better yet, fedex your stuff to brooke

haha Megan, actually they are really good. There are two women vets, I love them both. One is a true diagnostician, she will do whatever to find the problem, of course that whatever will cost you plenty lol.

This is how they do the cultures, I remember from my lab, one call, late that day, then a second call in the morning the next day.

The whole thing is just so weird, how he does it like crazy one day, then like yesterday not even once??? I wish he could talk!

Because he's a baby still can't get control orit happens so fast he doesn't have time to tell you.... cato was a challenge to but now he does fine.

I know he's young and I also know some puppies just take longer, if that is all it is I'm fine with that I just don't want anything to be wrong with him ya know? He's my baby'.

Of course I know! I'm neurotic and worry about EVERYTHING. But, I would just watch him and make sure he isn't straining. What did the culture say?

I think you answered your own question... you took him out more. Why is that so weird? That doesn't mean it can't be something medical. When Hailey had a UTI (and she's had them several times unfortunately), she wouldn't have accidents in the house because we'd take her outside more often so that she didn't have a chance to.

Nothing you're explaining sounds "weird." It sounds like an undiagnosed medical problem coupled with him being a young puppy that needs to go out every 5 hours anyway.

ETA: Just because he may not realize that he has to pee SOMETIMES, does not mean that it has to be that way all the time. There's no rule on that

I guess I would find it heard to believe given my experience with these very issues that this problem would come and go like this if truly an infection. These types of infections (if in fact it is an infection of course) would likely not get better on their own without treatment. That being said without further study I still have no idea whether this is an infection , or something entirely different. Why I said it was "wierd" is because taking him out the same amount of times from one day to the next and one day he is having tons of "accidents--which of course may or may not be accidents" and the next day he has none I found to be "wierd" for lack of a better word. Actually I have never gotten to a point with Balon where I could wait every 5 hours to take him out.

I just got off the phone with the vet and she realized that they sent the urine for stick test only (how right you are Brooke lol). So tomorrow he is going in for a culture where they actually have to take the urine directly from the bladder! Next up would be a dye study for around 600.00 my vet thinks he probably has a birth defect where his plumbing is not connected properly. She said that if this is the case surgery almost never corrects it and he would be peeing in my house his entire life. SIGH this just really sucks. She told me that siberians have this problem more then any other breed thought it is rare. So tomorrow the culture for 150.00 and that will take 3-5 days to get results from, next would be the dye study. I'm going to go cry now....

I read through this entire thread and I'm sorry to hear you're going through this with the poor boy .

Though I'd like to touch on something - I've never actually heard of Siberians having any kind of urinary type disease/illness that is "common" within the breed. Since Siberians are a relatively healthy breed in terms of hereditary diseases...something like that confuses me. As I spend the majority of my time speaking with breeders and learning about the breed and talking with veterinarians and not once has anything ever come up about them having such an issue and it being "common" or them being "more affected than other breeds". I'd be interested to learn/hear more about this and what your vet has to say about it.

I am by no means a Siberian Husky expert. However, I have been on forums for about 5 years now and been an incredibly active member. In my time, I've read thousands of threads and come in contact with tens of thousands of members most likely. I have NEVER heard of a Siberian Husky hereditary defect that causes urinary incontinence. So take that for what it's worth.

And please don't take this the wrong way, but your posts don't seem to indicate that you ARE taking him out consistently the same times, everyday, the same intervals apart. You just said in a previous post that you had taken him out more often that day.

Again, I am not trying to be mean, I'm not trying to place "blame", I am simply trying to help... but do yourself a favor and REALLY be honest with yourself. Are you taking him out that often CONSISTENTLY? And not just from one day to the next, but over time.

Further, for what it's worth, I don't think it's an infection. I think it's urinary incontinence. I know what I just said too... just because I don't think Siberians have a problem in general, does not mean I don't think Balon couldn't have this issue. Like you said, an infection would get progressively worse or stay the same. Incontinence or another problem, however, would not necessarily. ESPECIALLY if this is a combination of factors such as a medical issue and his youth, which I have said a few times that I think it is.

By all means, take Balon to the vet and get it figured out, but I'd ask your vet to produce some studies on this "widespread" problem in Siberian Huskies. I just find it hard to believe (even if it is rare) that so many of us have NEVER heard that before. I have always read the same as Ceara.

Just my

I've been kind of quietly following this thread just because Storm seems to have a medical issue with drinking a lot and then peeing a lot. His symptoms are different, but I was curious to follow as to what Balon's diagnosis will end up as.

In trying to figure out what Storm has, we went through tests, and some re-tests with urine samples and sterile urine samples, and bloodwork. And we've been looking at this issue since March/April - so at least 5 months now - and a lot of things came up that remotely could fit some or one or all his symptoms and not once was it mentioned that it could be what your vet mentioned. Like I said, Storm's symptoms are different, but we looked at everything possible because his urine and blood tests came back negative.

I'm curious to hear what your vet diagnosis ends up being just for reference and education.

Saber has incontinence issues. About 2 years ago, he started leaking urine and I has some tests run on him and even a second opinion. The only thing that was found was a slightly enlarged prostate, which isn't normal for neutered dogs. Long story short, he's been on medication since and it's helped tremendously. The only difference is, Saber was 11 years old when this started, not a puppy. He also knew when he was leaking because he would lick the urine as it was coming out. This is just my experience with an incontinent dog.

Tori,

Honestly I can absolutely say that Balon is taken out above and beyond what would be considered normal for a puppy. No I do not set timers, no I don't count the times, but every time he moves he goes out, plays,eats,sleeps,whines,goes to the front door, he goes out. More than any other puppy I have ever had, and Balon is far from the first puppy I have raised in my 53 years! If I have not been consistent on stating that I don't see where, but if so I digress!

That being said urinary incontinence does not just happen there is always a reason, whether it be a immature or poorly developed sphincter, or some other birth defect, there is a reason. I find it hard to believe that you have not heard of this problem affecting Siberians when it pops up plain as day when I googled "puppy peeing in house"! And my vet is one of the top diagnosticians in this area. She is incredibly well regarded by her peers. Just stating fact, not saying anyone said my vet wasn't good. Below is what I found and also the same she read to me out of the medical book, which I posted way earlier in this thread


"Young
animals may have a birth defect
causing incontinence. The most
common birth defect that causes
incontinence in young dogs is
ectopic ureter(s). The ureters carry
urine from the kidneys to the
bladder. If one or both ureters
by-pass the bladder and connect to
an abnormal location such as the
urethra or vagina, the puppy may
drip urine. Siberian Huskies
are most often affected."

Calling the problem "widespread" is your word not mine! What I said is my vet said that it is considered to be rare but that it occurs more often in Siberians then any other breed.

I am quite sure that a dye test will be necessary to figure this all out it will definitely show whether he has the above referenced problem or not, and I will have it done! But I must do this in the steps and tomorrow will be the culture.

I am grateful to all of you for listening to me and trying to help with all your opinions and experiences which are of course helpful. I am hoping that this turns out to be something that can be corrected.

Claudia/Ceara I will definitely let everyone know when I find out what is wrong, and I believe if you research the above paragraph you will easily find the studies. There is actually a lot out there about this problem.. For what its worth under huskies it states Labradors and a few other breeds! My vet said she has only ever seen 2 cases in her practice, one was a Siberian, the other a lab. Go figure!

There really isn't anything else to report so I will let everyone know when I have some results. Love your dogs!

No one said we haven't heard of urinary incontinence. What Tori and myself said is that among the many people we both have talked to - Tori and her extensive time spent on forums and dealing with people (many more than I have) and my time spent talking with breeders - who have anywhere from 20-40+ years in the Siberian Husky breed alone - have not heard of any urinary genetic/hereditary disease/illness that is "most commonly found" in the Siberian Husky breed.

NOW - that isn't to say your vet is wrong or right or that we are wrong or right - but I think we are misunderstanding each other. When I hear the words "common problem in..." I think of things such JC and PRA that are KNOWN within the breed and there are a high occurrence for those things to be found. They then become known as a common problem and one of the ones we warn about, along with hips, when we speak about the breed. But when you say "they're at a higher risk" or it is "more commonly found in" you don't mean it in the same way that I am reading it.

Though - for the record I wouldn't be able to take the word of a vet who has only seen two cases (one being a Siberian and one being another breed) and be able to blindly say I believe it is "common" or "the breed is at a higher risk". That's no slight at your vet or her education or anything - but I would never blindly follow or believe or reiterate something like that with having only seen two cases.

It would be like me saying that because Bella has a hereditary heart condition and that my vet has only seen 5 total cases - 2 of them were Siberians and 2 were CKCS and the other 1 was a Golden that Siberians are a breed that are higher risk for heart conditions (this is an example but I hope you understand what I'm trying to get at with - Siberians are in no way a high risk heart condition breed). I just think in reality - just like with anything - that there are problems that can pop up that are so far off of the radar that no one sees something like this. Like with Bella's SAS or with the possibility of Balon having EU but I also think it should be by no means considered "common" within the breed.

(as an aside I am hoping to hear back from several breeders for their stance on this just so that in the future if it does come up I can say with any amount of certainty that it either is or is not a "commonality" within the breed. I like to keep facts straight and I try not to spread misinformation)

Ceara, I did not say that no one had heard of urinary incontinence. And by stating what my vet has said and research I have found I certainly wasn't spreading misinformation for goodness sakes! Since when is letting people know what a vet thinks may be the cause of a problem spreading misinformation? I like to think something read straight out of a medical textbook on dogs that vets use would in fact be fact.

For the record no where did I state that it is "common" or a "commonality" within the breed. What is stated in the research I read is that while the condition is a rare one, and apparently really rare, and even more rare in males, when it is seen, it is seen more often in Siberians. IT DOES NOT state that many Siberians, or most Siberians or even 10 out of 1000 have the problem. I believe you are reading into what is stated. And again, I am only stating what my vet said, and what I myself read when researching this problem.

I am doing much research on this topic, especially now. I am finding more studies, some don't attribute it to any breed, some stating female labs, which is what my vet said, but also toy poodles and goldens, and some still stating our breed.

If someone has gotten offended by what I posted my vet said then I am sorry. I thought by keeping everyone informed it could help someone else, that was my intent. I can't be the only person with this problem. And how could I know that no one else had ever heard of it.

In fact most of the studies I am reading really state how really rare it is for males of
any breed, maybe this will be good news for Balon who knows.

For the record if I didn't think you guys knew your stuff, I wouldn't have posted for help here!

Again, I will post results from the fresh sample culture that is being done by my vet tomorrow, though it will take 3-4 days to get good results.

I sincerely appreciate each of you taking the time to respond with your experiences, or help, or just to tell me to keep my chin up!

I'll preface this by stating that in none of my posts have I been offensive, aggressive, rude, or attacking you - but you really seem to be getting defensive over what I consider a very civil talk as I'm trying to learn and get information straight.

Quote :

I find it hard to believe that you have not heard of this problem affecting Siberians when it pops up plain as day when I googled

That's what you said - "you have not heard of this problem affecting siberians" which translated to in my mind that you were taking the things we said as having not heard of it. It could have been how you worded it or it could have been just my misunderstanding - text is sometimes hard to read.

And I said everything about it being "common" was in fact me misunderstanding what you were saying which is why I posted what I did - to get a better understanding. As I'm taking your posts - it seems you're getting very defensive (again, text is hard to interpret).

Per my edit on the misinformation portion - that's for -me-. I was not saying YOU were spreading misinformation but as I cannot have a sit down talk with your vet extensively on such matters you'll have to excuse my seeking outside reliable sources to confirm or not (goes with my belief of the saying "not everything you read on the internet is true" type thing) the validity of whether or not Siberians are among the more affected for this genetic disorder so -I- do not spread misinformation. Just to clarify.