Alright, I've decided to switch Delilah and Cato to raw food. We were going to try PMR, as I think it is the most efficient and well explained raw diet I can find on the web.

First of all, Delilah ways 38 lbs, I would prefer her at 40, she is a little scrawny, but nothing seems to fatten her up. Cato is getting weighed on at his appointment, but I would peg him at 35lbs right now. We were going to start him on Friday after his weigh in and start Delilah ASAP, since she has the intolerance.

I think I have the ratio correct. At 2.5% of her weight she would need 1lb of food per day. Split into 2 feedings of 8oz. Am I correct on this?

Next question is, can I purchase food directly from the grocery store or should I use something like Oma's Pride or Primal Raw?

Is there anything that is completely toxic?

I'm sure there will be more! Thanks for the help.

As far as the Omas Pride, they have a Turkey 10lb brick for 26.99.

I know that Turkey and Chicken are very different, do you think Turkey is safe to try?

There are no meats that are completely toxic.

Feed real meat, bone and organs, not a preground "food."

Start with chicken quarters, expect liquid stools for a few days, with possible accidents. If they don't clear up in a week, try to trim some of the skin off the meat.

If your dogs don't figure out how to eat the quarters, you can slit the skin a little, to help them find the meat, or sprinkle some garlic powder on it, or even slip some cheese under the skin.

Some people recommend a starve day between kibble and raw. It isn't needed, but it will help make sure your dog is hungry enough to go for the raw food.

I wouldn't feed one dog kibble while feeding the other raw in the same house. When we were dog sitting for a friend, Isis went crazy over the smell of kibble and refused her food for almost 20 minutes before realizing it was all she was getting. Kibble is like dog crack.

Make sure your meat is under 100mg of sodium per 4oz serving. If it's not, it has salt added.

You should be able to get chicken quarters for around $1/lb. We also get whole chickens for $1/lb, which we cut into pieces. The only part the dogs don't get is the back (too much bone, not enough meat).

We also get pork shoulders (or picnic roasts) for around 1.69/lb.

Delilah can't eat Chicken. She has an intolerance.

Domingo wrote:

I wouldn't feed one dog kibble while feeding the other raw in the same house. When we were dog sitting for a friend, Isis went crazy over the smell of kibble and refused her food for almost 20 minutes before realizing it was all she was getting. Kibble is like dog crack.

I don't have a choice, Delilah has to start now. She will be fed outside on the patio. I don't see why a premade raw diet would be insufficient.

Turkey thighs would work as well, as long as she doesn't have a problem with turkey. The real issue is that you want to start with a single protein. Poultry is often recommended because it's a higher percentage of bone than most (chicken is ~36% bone), which helps with the initial loose stools.

Why can't you go ahead and start both dogs on raw together?

Part of the benefit of the raw diet is that it lets them think about their food and how to eat it. If you feed premade, ground raw, you are taking away the chewing, ripping, and thought involved with the food. It's not that you aren't getting the nutrition you need with it, you are just giving less interaction with the dogs, and paying more than you need to for it.

I don't have an exact weight on Cato - I don't want to over/underfeed him.

Delilah however, I do have an exact weight on. I would love ot take him to get weighed today, but I wont be out of work until my vet is closed.

While many "hardcore" raw feeders disagree.. personally I feel there's nothing wrong with pre-ground (such as primal, natures variety ect. ect.) it's easy to store and as long as you add RMB's for teeth work... it's fine.

You can purchase meat from just about anywhere. Prepackaged raw is easy... but you're paying for that and they will often add things such as veggie blends or some other meat source (which isn't a problem unless it's a protein you're trying to avoid.) Also- solely feeding that takes away a bunch of the obvious benefits of PMR.

Honestly for you if you want to get her off kibble right now i'd start with the premades and work your way into PMR.

Now I just need to get somewhere that has the premades - not the easiest thing to find out here.

mheath0429 wrote:

I don't have an exact weight on Cato - I don't want to over/underfeed him.

Delilah however, I do have an exact weight on. I would love ot take him to get weighed today, but I wont be out of work until my vet is closed.

No reason to be that worries about an exact weight. As long as you have an estimated weight, you're fine. The 2.5% is only a starting point, after that, you'll need to adjust based on how much your dogs really need. Isis eats almost 3.5% of her bodyweight, to maintain weight, because she's so active, while Dante eats around 2.5% to maintain.

Slightly underfeeding to start with is better than overfeeding, as gives them a chance to adjust to the food without getting loose stools from overfeeding.

Do you have any specialty pet places around you? Usually that's where you can find them in stores. I know wag.com is now selling premades.

arooroomom wrote:

Honestly for you if you want to get her off kibble right now i'd start with the premades and work your way into PMR.

I certainly don't want to start an argument by any means, but do you have a reason for why you'd suggest starting with premades?

Domingo wrote:

arooroomom wrote:

Honestly for you if you want to get her off kibble right now i'd start with the premades and work your way into PMR.

I certainly don't want to start an argument by any means, but do you have a reason for why you'd suggest starting with premades?

Because she is obviously uncomfortable and uncertain with what/how to feed. So- I feel premades triumph kibble 100%

I'd rather her start with premades and then dive deeper into PMR.

And i'm all up for argument

I gotta agree Kristina, we are gonna take a trip to a store about 30 minutes away that sells Omas - I can get the turkey for 26.99/ 10lb which I think it incredibly reasonable considering the price of high quality kibbles and freeze dried food.

It looks like a decent food. Do you think the Turkey is safe?

arooroomom wrote:

Domingo wrote:

arooroomom wrote:

Honestly for you if you want to get her off kibble right now i'd start with the premades and work your way into PMR.

I certainly don't want to start an argument by any means, but do you have a reason for why you'd suggest starting with premades?

Because she is obviously uncomfortable and uncertain with what/how to feed. So- I feel premades triumph kibble 100%

I'd rather her start with premades and then dive deeper into PMR.

And i'm all up for argument

While I agree that there is fear when it comes to jumping into PMR, I still think it's the best way to go about it. Premades are more expensive (leading to a higher chance of going back to kibble), and much harder to find/get than regular meat. Most areas have grocery stores open 24/7, while specialty pet shops are short hours and limited days of the week.

I also think that suggesting premade hurts people's confidence. There will always be an inherent fear when switching, that you're going to do something wrong. There's nothing wrong with that fear, but it is one that you'll have to get over. Premade just encourages that fear, and reinforces the theory that so many people have, that says we can't formulate a balanced and healthy diet for our dogs using meat, bones and organs.

Premades are better than kibble, but I'd suggest taking the "black box" out of your dogfood, and really see what you're feeding (and doubly so when you're talking about looking for food sensitivities). Maybe the allergy isn't to chicken, but is to something else included (a veggie, a color, etc) in the kibble. Even a preground food will have more ingredients than store bought single protein meat.

I wouldn't call it a fear, and I don't feed only kibble. The reaction wasn't even to a kibble product, it was to a freeze dried chicken. I'm pretty well aware of what my dogs eat, I read religiously and I am not scared by PMR, but I want it to be done right and with the right amount of time to do the research that is required to do so.

If you think I'm feeding poor quality that is silly. The premade died is actually CHEAPER than the kibble/freeze dried food I was feeding.

Fear is not an issue, being undereducated is. I had a huge scare and taking a risk with Delilahs diet has to be done with the right amount of education involved. Hence why I am not jumping into everything.

As far as Cato goes, I will start him Friday. The two will do just fine and he will get his freeze dried food like normal. I don't really want to debate it, because I am not comfortable starting him without talking to my vet first (who can give me full details for feed a puppy, since she advocates raw).

Domingo wrote:

arooroomom wrote:

Domingo wrote:

arooroomom wrote:

Honestly for you if you want to get her off kibble right now i'd start with the premades and work your way into PMR.

I certainly don't want to start an argument by any means, but do you have a reason for why you'd suggest starting with premades?

Because she is obviously uncomfortable and uncertain with what/how to feed. So- I feel premades triumph kibble 100%

I'd rather her start with premades and then dive deeper into PMR.

And i'm all up for argument

While I agree that there is fear when it comes to jumping into PMR, I still think it's the best way to go about it. Premades are more expensive (leading to a higher chance of going back to kibble), and much harder to find/get than regular meat. Most areas have grocery stores open 24/7, while specialty pet shops are short hours and limited days of the week.

I also think that suggesting premade hurts people's confidence. There will always be an inherent fear when switching, that you're going to do something wrong. There's nothing wrong with that fear, but it is one that you'll have to get over. Premade just encourages that fear, and reinforces the theory that so many people have, that says we can't formulate a balanced and healthy diet for our dogs using meat, bones and organs.

Premades are better than kibble, but I'd suggest taking the "black box" out of your dogfood, and really see what you're feeding (and doubly so when you're talking about looking for food sensitivities). Maybe the allergy isn't to chicken, but is to something else included (a veggie, a color, etc) in the kibble. Even a preground food will have more ingredients than store bought single protein meat.

While I will always advocate PMR (as I have feed that without the aid of grounds in the past and include it now with the addition of ground meat/bones) I would rather someone feel comfortable and confident in feeding a raw food than having them constantly wondering and second guessing themselves because they feel they're doing it wrong or that the dog is "missing" something.

When I started PMR I literally read a few things online, and then went to publix and bought chicken quarters. It was shaky at first and I was nervous about only feeding meats.... How much? What? How much of this particular meat? How important is this? ect. ect. ect. because all I was getting from the other side of the fence was how horrible and comparable to kibble premades were. While I still feel they are completely overpriced and most do not deserve their sticker price especially because they are sometimes packed with up to 20% veggies... I feel for those who are looking for an immediate "go-to" easy switch to raw feeding.... they are a good stepping stone.

I would hope that in time and with more research Megan will feed PMR, and I will support that... I feel that at this point in time i'm more happy that she's ditching kibble.

I'd try the Turkey Megan, Rodeo can eat that just fine and he has a chicken intolerance

Thank kristina. I was hoping you would address the turkey. I think it will be easier with the remade right now simply because baby girl had a history of resource gaurding and I wont have to worry about. What happens if she gets a bone or.something she can't have from the meat. Cost isn't a huge issue. I just need to do what's best for.her

Since Luka is allergic to pretty much every meat you'd find at the grocery store, I do a lot of ordering from websites. Here are two I've used...

www.hare-today.com
www.mypetcarnivore.com

Price? Well unfortunately exotic meat is a bit expensive.

You can also find some different meats at Asian and Mexican grocery stores.

Holy crap what a huge help! Mypetcarnivore delivers down the street

Wow that place is awesome, wish I could get a cheap supply of whole turkey necks... Megan- That would be a good option for D to get the benefits of dental work with bones. They can eat that whole thing.

mheath0429 wrote:

Holy crap what a huge help! Mypetcarnivore delivers down the street

They come to our city too, love not having to pay for delivery!

Alright. I'm all over that. I'll get the 10lb of premade for the next week - then I'll have them deliver next week. I don't have a drop off location available until July 26th. So, until then I'll pay the shipping for the necks and whatever else we decide. Its impossible to find things like that around here. Thank you.

So, I made the 30 min drive, which wasnt too bad and we ended up with -

Oma's

2 10lb bricks of premade turkey raw. 26/each

2 5lb bags of duck necks 13.00/each

1 bag of freeze dried lamb lungs as snacks

2 Achilles tendons as chews

and 10 duck feet.

Now, Chris and I are getting our list around for the order of the bulk meat via mypetcarnivore.com

We are also going to buy a freezer!