What would you call this coat color/pattern on this husky? Would think he's a mix?

What would you call this coat color/pattern on this husky? Would think he's a mix?

Merle???????????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merle_(dog_coat)

Cool looking Husky though.

I knew there was a name for it, and I knew it was for a different breed - I just couldn't remember what it was!

Thanks Len!

Does this mean he's a mix?

Merle is not present in purebred Siberians. SHCA has a big post on it on the website.

Definitely Merle, but as Kristina pointed out it cannot be a purebred with the gene.

Would it be safe to say, since the Merle gene is found more in Australian Shepards, that this boy is a husky/aussie mix?

Reminds me of Raleigh:


I would just put mix, he looks mostly Husky but there are a few very unethical BYBs trying to bring Merle (and all the problems that come with it) into the breed. Once they bring it in it can be carried and pop up every now and then. Sara should have a few words to add I'm sure lol

Maybe some Catahoula in the back round?

Sterling does look very much like Raleigh!

I got the scoop on his background and I really think he should be considered a mix - mostly husky - but there is a little of something else in him.

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I will be happy to tell you what I know. I was looking for a good AKC registered female to show back in 2006, and I came across this absolutely adorable spotted puppy in Madisonville, TN. I wondered why I had never seen the coat pattern before, thinking maybe there was something off. The breeder was great about letting us visit, and while the mother (Cooper's Southern Shooting Star) was a normal black & white female, the sire to the litter (Cooper's Southern Timber) had faint spotting on his ears. She said she had purchased him from Stan Murrey supposedly a big breeder in North Carolina (I never found his kennel, so I'm unsure on that), and that Timber had darker spots as a puppy that had faded out when he grew up. Timber looked absolutely 100% Siberian to me, and me being a sucker for uniqueness went ahead and put a deposit on her. (Looking back on that now, I should've known better, and have kicked myself for it ever since).

At the same time, I have a breeder friend elsewhere in TN that - same as me - loved their uniqueness and bought a sister.

When I picked my puppy up, the breeder told me she had sent in Timber's DNA to the AKC because the coloring was so unusual and she wanted to see about it being recognized. I thought "cool" and went on...

Well - the day came and I brought her home and dubbed her Echo. I was all excited to get her papers. That was just before Christmas that year. Right after Christmas the AKC suspended Echo's registration and gave her a conditional registration instead. I was instructed by the AKC to contact the breeder. I had a complete total cow. I contacted the breeder and asked why. She went on to explain that Timber's sire on the AKC records did not match the DNA on file for that stud.

The AKC told me that Echo would never have more than conditional registration. To revert back to full/regular registration, Echo, and three more generations of her lineage would need to be DNA registered, and the line would be free and clear.

In the meantime, the breeder I purchased Echo from went belly up because of this. Stan would never return her phone calls, and she couldn't get any rectification for those of us who had purchased one of the puppies, and she gave up altogether after someone shot and killed Timber. Her reputation went down the toilet, which was too bad, because it wasn't really her fault. I chose to keep Echo and straighten it out through DNA with the AKC. Other breeders who purchased the other puppies in the litter had their dogs fixed and got rid of them, so to the best of my knowledge, Rain & Echo are it.

My breeder friend (who does not use AKC, only CKC) sold her dog to a breeder in Arkansas because she didn't want to fool with the whole mess. That breeder registered Rain and proceeded to breed her. Rain was only a little over a year old when she had her first litter. That breeder did do all the DNA registration and sold a whole bunch of those puppies.

That breeder kept several of the offspring, and Rain was then sold after about the 4th or 5th litter in a few short years (it was not long at all) to another breeder somewhere in Indiana/Illinois who continued to breed her.
After Echo was 2, I decided to go ahead and let Echo have a litter. I put her with the blackest, darkest male I could find, and even so, still ended up with one puppy with the same color pattern. She had 4 puppies - 3 black and one spotted one, and then I had her fixed. I kept her daughter, DNA registered her, and her daughter produced (again) 2 puppies with that coat pattern in a litter of 5. I still have two of those 5.

During all of this, Echo & Rain's breeder sold their mother (Star) to another breeder friend of mine, and she was nice enough to DNA register Star for me, so Echo's grandpuppies are the 4th generation instead of her great-grandpuppies.

With all that being said - is there an Australian Shepherd in the woodpile? I cannot say with 100% certainty that there is or isn't, but since Timber's DNA did not match, that leaves the door open for debate. It definitely looks suspicious. However, since the DNA has been done on Rain's and Echo's progeny, it appears diluted enough that all Siberian shows through - it's just that coloring remains. Even so - I still choose to do a spay/neuter contract on mine. In all honesty, Echo has never acted anything less than Siberian. She's stubborn, sweet, strong willed, sneaky, and has a great sense of humor. (Loves hiding our Golden Retriever's toys after she takes out all the stuffing.)

Since there are so many of Rain's progeny out there, you may start seeing them more often now that AKC reverted their registration status. I know at least 4 breeders now further out west using those decsendents. The rescue you now have is (almost positively) descended from Rain, and I would also bet that someone paid through the nose to get him.

I hope that you find a good home for him. My Echo and her daughter and grandaughters are some of the sweetest and most loveable dogs I've had the chance to know, even with the headache of their paperwork.

Oh what a responsible puppy buyer and breeder! That makes me so angry. Just what we need Merle in Sibes!

I know of those breeders she's talking about in the email. Here's pictures of their dogs

Also when they register, they register them as piebalds so that might be why they've been okay with AKC. They are also DNA'd

Storm:


Knox:


And from a breeder in KY, Twister:


Storm and Twister are sisters. Here's them together


And a past puppy of Storms

wow what a mess! Poor Rain being breed and passed around so much.

Knox is beautiful though!

Fascinating thread, thank you! And he's adorable - look at that expression on his face and that cute little tongue!

Yep...I was reading the story and thought, 'OMG, NO!'

I do have to admit - Sterling is very cute. And because we are a rescue, and it's to no fault of his own, we will help him find a furever home.

cmanding wrote:

Yep...I was reading the story and thought, 'OMG, NO!'

I do have to admit - Sterling is very cute. And because we are a rescue, and it's to no fault of his own, we will help him find a furever home.

Thank god for rescue like yours Claudia.

I can't fathom how someone could treat a dog like this.

I'm glad you can help him. As you say, the breeding isn't his fault. I think he's cute.

That kennel - is the reason the SHCA released their statement on Merle Siberians. They were/are able to be registered as purebreds because the papers were falsified - not because of how they register the colors. They only register the dogs as piebalds because it's a recognized per the standard and the dogs are sold as "rare". That's all people see is "rare" and "unique" and think jackpot.

cmanding wrote:

Would it be safe to say, since the Merle gene is found more in Australian Shepards, that this boy is a husky/aussie mix?

Many breeds carry the merle gene. For example: Australian Shepherds, Border Collies, Cardigan Welsh Corgis, Chis, Poms, Doxies and Sheltlands to name a few.

Can you show that kind of a dog, Ceara?

A merle Siberian? None have been in the AKC rings as far as I know - I did hear that UKC had a few merles in their rings though.

Yeah, AKC opened the flood gates withe their rule change in 2005 to allow Conditional Registration.
http://www.akc.org/reg/conditional_reg_info.cfm

Pretty much there can be a DNA mismatch, as in they don't know who the sire is, and the puppies get a conditional registration if the breeder claims the sire was the same breed. So they pretty much take the breeder's word for it and if no one tries to claim it's a mix, then they get away with it. My guess is the first breeder kept their mouth shut and SHCA didn't find out until too late hence their statement on merle which was written in 2011 when they realized the problem. So with a conditional registration you need three generations of puppies before you can go back to regular registration and then it's like it never happened.

I have heard that the first breeder with merle puppies was a crappy BYB who sold siberian huskies and, what do you know, aussies! So it's a no brainer there. And since then, BYB's have been fascinated with the color and how "rare" it is and how it can draw in big $$$. So now there are several merle huskies out there (notice how I won't call them siberians anymore) and it's no surprise that they are ending up in rescue since these breeders are probably only in it for the money.

Oh and don't tell the breeders they are breeding merles! To them, they are breeding piebalds! They won't admit that these dogs are merles, because they know the SHCA's stance on it and if you mention anything to them, they get really, really pissed at you. I know from a conversation I'd had with the owner of Copperhead. Oh she flipped a switch on me! But you would too if you were selling these "rare" colored huskies like hot cakes and someone was trying to ruin your "business" (her word not mine).

wow what great information, I myself like the merle pattern, I think its different and pretty, but on the right breed for which it is allowed.

Honestly, if these breeders would stop calling them purebred and be more like that huskita person, it wouldn't bug me nearly as much.

SaraB wrote:

Honestly, if these breeders would stop calling them purebred and be more like that huskita person, it wouldn't bug me nearly as much.

quoted for emphasis AND truth!

Niraya wrote:

SaraB wrote:

Honestly, if these breeders would stop calling them purebred and be more like that huskita person, it wouldn't bug me nearly as much.

quoted for emphasis AND truth!

ditto!!