Was wondering (without me initially posting a picture of my dog/genetic info) what this banding looks like in terms of coat color. Excuse his dandruff! He had to be overbathed as a puppy due to some icky things he came to me with so we’re working through it.

Hard to tell from that pic without seeing the whole dog. So that banding looks from the little i can see to be agouti. But then i see some lighter colors with red points near the edges of the photos that make me think sable/wolf grey. More likely its agouti

So I didn’t share a photo (and will with some more opinion) because he brown/reddish. But he has a dark root even on the very red areas. Doesn’t carry recessive brown, and the theory is that it’s stained from red clay dirt from poor living quality from birth to near 8MO. He was a rehome so I don’t know for sure but his coat is abnormal against his genetic makeup. The undercoat is what’s coming out now and I’m curious what he’ll end up looking like when he sheds his puppy coat.

Might not be stain. I tried to wash out spiders copper highlights thinking it was dirt. Reddish brown base with black roots and tips is agouti. If you look at the pic i have under my name the one in the crate is agouti the one next to the crate is wolf grey. Both have banded hairs.

There are 16 genes in dogs responsible for color. Both agouti and wolf grey and other banded colors are variations on the recessive black. I dont understand how he could be abnormal against his genetic makeup unless hes 100% and the size of a chihuahua or a mastiff. Or maybe a genetic brindle.

He doesn’t carry recessive black. EE. I’ve sent his photos and panel to UC Davis and they literally replied with, “We can not explain this.” So I think it’s for sure hard stained from birth in likely a shitty byb facility. Also there’s a black base even where it’s super red. I’ll take a picture of his tail.

On mobile so I don’t see any pictures under your name?

He presented as charcoal and tan when I first got him. The brown and red came out as he grew.

Tail. Very red. Dark base and even some light banding in between. ‍�

If it was really stain the white markings wouldnt be so white.  Really unique color for a husky. Squirt went through a whole mess of color changes before she became black/tan agouti. From some areas on your pup id say sable.. from other areas id say agouti. Super cute tho. Genetic anomalies happen, i have a wolf husky that dna tests 78 wolf (mostly arctic) and looks like a badly bred husky and phenotypes as a low content.

What did the dna test say the color should be?

The white is new growth. He for sure doesn’t carry sable. DNA wasn’t agouti full. I’ve had some people say seal with agouti showing through. Experts can’t give an explanation so I guess I just have to wait on his puppy coat to shed. Just driving me nuts.

EE
Bb
DD
KBky
awaw
EE
NN
mm

Is he a pure husky? He looks like a Pomsky? Very pretty boy!! And I know how your feeling about colours my Boy Apollo was born brown then to white then to grey and now he’s like black ish beige ish colour. If you look at me scrap book (Apollo’s Scrap book) you will see!

He is 100% Sibe. Those colors came from Embark and have also done a test at UC Davis. He’s just a wooly.

You have KB so you should throw out awaw because it covers that up I'm pretty sure. The DD is a strong dilution and could throw you to light red or grey. Since you are a Bb and not a BB I suspect you are expressing to red. Based on that I'm leaning toward you showing a dilute red with black tips from the EE. So sable is where I'm leaning. With potential questionable background it could be that his puppy coat is damaged and when he sheds off you might be dealing with a dilute black. Won't really know until it happens. there are a lot of locus that embark don't test for also that could play into things.

My boy was

Ee
kyky
awaw
DD
Bb

I’m familiar KB throws it, which is why UC Davis can’t explain it. He’s expressing ky traits. He won’t express red. Bb expresses black or grey. He’d have to have ee or MAYBE Ee, but he’s full EE dominant. Sable would have to be ay to carry any sable at all.

And i thought lethal white foal syndrome was confusing

Disorders and mutations are a whole other ball game. Red coat syndrome has been tossed out at me as an possibility. ‍�

I had to look up red coat syndrome and there really isnt alot on it other then 1 study using very few dogs. But i does seem like a possibility. The one thing i did notice is that IF it is red coat syndrome a blood test should give you that answer. Also i was reading this https://embarkvet.com/resources/dog-breeders/science-corner-coat-color-genetics-101/ and fhere are several colors they cant test for yet also goes some into the limitations of what they can test. The real answer might just be time.

Everything that CAN be tested for that they don’t test (there are still things that no one can) I tested at UC Davis. So. Still nonsensical.

Not necessarily. All it means is we dont know everything and based off what is known this makes no sense. Doesnt actually mean it makes no sense, just under current understanding. I guess what makes the most sense is think about it like merle. Its not just the genetic expression but the length of the expression. They can test for the M allele but the actual length they need to do very specific testing because the length would determine the degree of the merle (and health issues) .

If you base things off the merle model the longest dominant allele is going to be what you see 90% of the time

And now my brain hurts. Havent done that much looking at color genetics since i bred my quarterhorse

Well obviously, lol. I didn’t mean my dog makes no sense in the whole context of the word. Was referring to the available testing he’s been through and what we can scientifically deduce right now.

I, generally, consider myself reasonably intelligent on a wide variety of topics (comes of being a computer programmer) but you guys (er, gals) have completely blown away anything I thought I might know ...
And, while I admit ignorance, I don't admit to the curiosity to find out what it y'all are talking about. Sounds more confusing than I'm interested in trying to figure out ...

I have spent the last four months basically breathing it.
The Embark link above goes into it.
This site is also super helpful. http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/
And Embark breaks down definitions on dogs, so here’s Grey’s: https://my.embarkvet.com/members/results/share-center

sable is a coat color not a genetic trait marker the last I recall. Agouti is what is carried and you have that. Your pup looks like a dirty faced sable agouti to me. When you talked to UC Davis did you actually talk to their coat color division, not the lab that runs the standard dna tests? UC Davis has an actual coat test that is more accurate than the embark stuff. Breeders often use Optimal Selection, mydogdna, or laboklin for their coat testing. Especially in huskies. Huskies don't express like a GSD or lab. Embark is still learning a lot about coat expression in northern breeds because they express more similar to wolves. So standard genetics like for other breeds you have to mildly toss out the window. awaw will often not be completely masked which can be why red gets expressed at the same time black points can be expressed which make the sable coat color. But the S locus that controls pattern that isn't tested for can do completely different things which is the belief of what happened with my dog who should not be pure white and yet he is. Coat color is not the same as genetic color since so much more than we test for or understand goes into genetics, while coat color can be seen and is what it is regardless of what the small testable portions of dna may suggest. I did the deep dive years ago when I had my boy tested but it's been too long now. While embark is the gold standard for breed testing it has a lot to learn and perfect when it comes to coats still. Especially in northern breeds and wolf mixes. Wisdom Panel has actually outrun them as of late, though still shaky in northern breeds. There is a facebook coat genetics group where people with more experience and knowledge than us could mull over your results as well if you wish. It's called Coat Color and Genetics. They can get pretty in the weeds with explanations.

I never said sable wasn’t? I think you must have misunderstood when I relied regarding the horse condition.

I had my information forwarded to their color specialist and one who knew huskies. I tested his coat color with them and Embark and then contacted UC Davis who had me in touch with a specialist who said “they had no scientific explanation.” Call me incorrect but he would have to carry an ay gene to be sable. If he is agouti that’s also referred to in some places as “wolf” sable/grey, sure. Not the same as sable. Driving so sorry this is all over the place. The color group on FB was all over the place on guesses. I don’t feel most are specific enough to the husky breed.

Basically you want someone that wanted to do what i had planned before i broke my back. You want a canine geneticist that specializes in huskies.

@twisterII all wolves and most wolfdogs are genetic agouti regardless of how its expressed,even white phase ones. What confuses me is with wolfdogs and wolves you can see hundreds of bands if you use a good magnifying glass or a microscope. Im not sure if huskies have that type of banding, spider does but i have husky mutts.

It definitely depends on how high content you go with wolfdogs. With huskies it’s just triple banding. I’ve reached out to the husky color website admin. They confirmed agouti but stopped replying when I updated his red shift. Spoken to UC Davis color specialists, and reached out to the color genetics group on Facebook. No solid luck, and it’s been changing as he does.

Spider went from black to dark grey to white and then the colors started coming in. Her copper points came in last. Her hair has 4 visible bands white then cream then light copper then black. Realistically i dont know where she phenotypes because the content phenotyping is based off grey wolves and her dna test came back more arctic then grey. Also her mom was an f7. She has 1 blue eye and 1 yellow eye which in my mind makes her low content even though dna test puts her at an upper mid lower high. I blame most her issues on the husky side though its Maybe on the extreme side of husky problems.

Ive always found it fun to guess what color animals will become. Most of my horses were bay but my qh was smokey black so her babies always made for fun guessing games. Id really like to see how he progresses.

Back to overbathing.... did someone use iodine shampoo on a regular basis. That would explain alot. Pyoben also will dye a coat. Chlorhexidine will turn a white dog blue.