Karen124 wrote:

That's what we're doing... starting from the beginning. But we're at the point where she HAS to be crated during the day. (Husky vs. Taxes... Husky vs. Spaghetti Noodles... Husky vs. bag of flour... Husky vs. dishes... etc.) She absolutely can't be left alone loose.

Is it counterproductive to train in the evenings, baby steps, and then just lock her up during the day??? I feel like it's not accomplishing anything!

lol I hear you!

Do you have any dog walkers you could hire? Or better yet a friend thats at home during the day that could stop by and take her for a walk?

Seriously, I am telling you right now that it was the greatest thing we ever did for Delilah. So many of the issues went away - I am so happy we got Cato and so is Delilah. She hasn't shredded anything since.

Have you tried covering the crate with a blanket of towel.??

I really don't have a lot of help Kerian loves the crate she goes into it all the time no problem she came trained that way just adopted her 3 weeks ago.

Now Blaze does not like the crate but he will go into his when we leave the house.

Kerian's crate is in the living room with a cover over part of it. she gets upset when she doesn't have access to it.

Blaze's crate is fold up and only put out when we leave the house. My husband works from home everyday so these pups have free access most days to house.

Definitely can't cover the crate with anything that she can pull into it. That's what happened to the shower curtain and at least three towels. I'm debating on trying the plastic crate.

If you haven't tried the plastic airliner crates first, I would do that and give it a try.

Otherwise I would really look into medication (comicalm) coupled with crate training... While starting at he beginning will help in time, you can't continue to have her work herself into a fit everyday. It's not healthy- mentally.

We tried crate training Trillion about 2 weeks after we got her,
and even still today she goes crazzy, she has separation anxiety really bad, and we have another puppy (my brothers dog gsdxstandard poodle) his dog, a perfect angel.
my dog...
tore apart every door jam she has ever been in contact with, tore up the carpet under the door of my room. shredded idk how many pillows, eaten my shoes. bit up the pots outside (for the flowers)
scratched apart (litteraly) the door to my boyfriends room and the door to his kitchen.
she's also riped up at least half of the linoleum in our bathroom.

We try crating at night, and i had a job for a month or two and we tried crating her for four hours while i was at work.

but it went horribly we had both types of crates, we also just tried having her quarantined to a room (the kitchen and bathroom)
she also would lay down in the crate to nap and go in just to eat an antler or something, but the second that door closes she whines then i leave and it's full on screaming the whole inside of her plastic crate is scratched up from her trying to dig out, and her teeth (puppy teeth) came out a few times from biting the bars, and her mouth was always bloody when id let her out.
i tried every trick in the book as well,
but now she's 6 months dosnt get crated at night cause she's potty trained but whenever i need to leave the house and she can't come with me she's a terror.
and i don't have a fence cause i live in the mountains, and even if i did we have a LOT of coyotes bears and wolves up here.

This is how kale was with the crate indoors. At one point i went next door to talk to the neighbor, was gone for 7 mins tops, and there was lake of drool and he chipped the back ok his canines on the wire trying to get out. Luckily he has no problem with his crate outside. He goes in there when i say crate and goes to sleep. I'd try moving the crate to a new location on a surface he cant destroy like tile like a previous poster suggested. (i feel your frustration, moving kale's crate outside was a last straw)

Karen124 wrote:

Is it counterproductive to train in the evenings, baby steps, and then just lock her up during the day??? I feel like it's not accomplishing anything!

It's because it's too sudden a progression, from baby steps to being thrown in the deep end.

The thing is that eight hours is really too long to leave a dog on its own, especially a husky since it's a breed that really likes company. That's why doggy daycare would really help. Some will collect the dog from its home and return it later, but obvoiusly that's more expensive. There must be a local dog walker who could take her out for a walk in the day, to break the time up? If you don't know of one, try the local ads or ask at the pet store. Or maybe a friend or neighbour could spend some time dog-sitting, or there is a sensible teenager who you could pay to take her for a walk before they go to school, on the days when you are working?

That's why you need a two-pronged approach, of training her to be happy in the crate, but also reducing the amount of time she is locked in there.

Doggy daycare isn't an option because of my hours and the fact that we live in the middle of nowhere. I'm trying to find a college or high school kid who can come by at least this summer and walk her.

Ugh, so frustrating!

Try the airline crate - our Frosti was also a separation anxiety nutcase and we got so much advice! one was the airline crate - cheapest on amazon.com (the Vari kennel ultra) - 36" for $99 or 119. Sometimes the noise makes it worse.

Right now, her anxiety is reinforcing her anxiety - I know, it sound redundant. You need to get her to a place where she is calm in the crate without you. Start with 5 minutes away, then 10, then 15. It's frustrating but so worth it! We couldn't leave the house with out her for SIX months - our social life was nil unless we went to an outdoor cafe. Now we've left them up to 5 hours alone with no incidents. Good luck and hang in there! BTW - hubby needs to chill. Mine did too - they don't help with their lack of patience.

Unfortunately, what you are experiencing is the result of trying to crate train a husky during the "teenage rebellion" time and right in the heart of it. Just judging by her "I love my crate during the day but hate it when you are gone," it's pretty easy to tell. Sucks.

Try the plastic crate and getting someone to let her out during the day is going to really help.

However, like Sam said, it's the anxiety making the anxiety. So, I would take a weekend day and start working on the separation anxiety (this WILL take almost a whole day). Start by figuring out what sets her off. Is it picking up your keys? Leaving the house? And go from there. It sounds like it might be the leaving part that does the trick, so here goes....The trick is to be CALM about this entire process. Almost as if she wasn't there. Don't react to her.

1. Put her in the crate (give her a treat just like you were leaving-- whatever it is that you do).
2. Walk to the door. Pause.
3. Turn around, take her out and do what you do for five minutes.
4. Put her in the crate (same with the treat).
5. Walk to the door. Open it. Pause.
6. Turn around and let her out, relax for 5.
7. Put her in the crate (treat).
8. Walk to the door. Open it. Walk through. Close behind you. Pause.
9. Turn around, let her out, and relax for 5 mins.
10. Put her in the crate (treat).
11. Go through the door. Shut it behind you. Pause for 5 mins.
12. Turn around, let her out, and relax for 5 mins.

I'm hoping you get the point. This should continue until you are out the door/house for 10 mins. 20 mins. 30 mins. 1 hour. So on and so forth.

It's a huge commitment, but doing this once, sometimes even a couple of times should help desensitize her.

The trick is that she's good going in because you are there. She's good coming out... because you are there. It's the in between that she's freaking out (like you said) and the problem is: you aren't there. So you need to show her that it doesn't matter HOW long you are gone... you are her people and you are coming back. You will ALWAYS come back.

Not to guilt you or anything, but if your husband is still thinking of giving her up, that's the absolute WORST thing you can do. A dog with separation anxiety is petrified that it's going to be abandoned. And well, giving her up would completely play into her fears.

So take a few days, take a weekend, to really work with her on this. I think you'll see some results fairly quickly if you do.

Koda wrote:

Unfortunately, what you are experiencing is the result of trying to crate train a husky during the "teenage rebellion" time and right in the heart of it. Just judging by her "I love my crate during the day but hate it when you are gone," it's pretty easy to tell. Sucks.

Try the plastic crate and getting someone to let her out during the day is going to really help.

However, like Sam said, it's the anxiety making the anxiety. So, I would take a weekend day and start working on the separation anxiety (this WILL take almost a whole day). Start by figuring out what sets her off. Is it picking up your keys? Leaving the house? And go from there. It sounds like it might be the leaving part that does the trick, so here goes....The trick is to be CALM about this entire process. Almost as if she wasn't there. Don't react to her.

1. Put her in the crate (give her a treat just like you were leaving-- whatever it is that you do).
2. Walk to the door. Pause.
3. Turn around, take her out and do what you do for five minutes.
4. Put her in the crate (same with the treat).
5. Walk to the door. Open it. Pause.
6. Turn around and let her out, relax for 5.
7. Put her in the crate (treat).
8. Walk to the door. Open it. Walk through. Close behind you. Pause.
9. Turn around, let her out, and relax for 5 mins.
10. Put her in the crate (treat).
11. Go through the door. Shut it behind you. Pause for 5 mins.
12. Turn around, let her out, and relax for 5 mins.

I'm hoping you get the point. This should continue until you are out the door/house for 10 mins. 20 mins. 30 mins. 1 hour. So on and so forth.

It's a huge commitment, but doing this once, sometimes even a couple of times should help desensitize her.

The trick is that she's good going in because you are there. She's good coming out... because you are there. It's the in between that she's freaking out (like you said) and the problem is: you aren't there. So you need to show her that it doesn't matter HOW long you are gone... you are her people and you are coming back. You will ALWAYS come back.

Not to guilt you or anything, but if your husband is still thinking of giving her up, that's the absolute WORST thing you can do. A dog with separation anxiety is petrified that it's going to be abandoned. And well, giving her up would completely play into her fears.

So take a few days, take a weekend, to really work with her on this. I think you'll see some results fairly quickly if you do.

Awesome advise! I think I'm going to have to give this a try as well. Thanks Tori

Karen124 wrote:

Is it counterproductive to train in the evenings, baby steps, and then just lock her up during the day??? I feel like it's not accomplishing anything!

Depending on how bad it is and how far you get with a desensitization-intensive weekend, the answer can be yes. I really stress to take a full weekend and do the program Tori outlined, starting all the way back at any "I'm leaving" triggers. Find some really good treats she likes too. But if by the end of the weekend you still can't leave her for more than a few minutes without her acting out in terror (not boredom) then the progress you made will likely be erased once you leave her for 8 hours straight. The best solution is if you can go the whole training time without leaving her alone (doggy daycare/sitter/work from home/etc.) but this just isn't always possible. The next best thing is to have a second home-alone place. So, if you go the airplane crate route, maybe put the old crate in a totally different room. Only leave her in the airplane crate for the periods of time she's been adjusted too.

She is young and I'd imagine a decent amount of her issues are due to being a teenager and hopefully it's not full blown separation anxiety. If you can get her reallllllly tired out in the morning before each day of training you'll be setting yourself up for training success. Good luck!

i didnt read all the comments so i dont know if someone already mentioned this, but i was told that when you put her in the crate, walk out of the room, close the room door and wait right outside until she starts acting up. when the screaming and destruction starts, hit the door pretty hard, but make sure its closed or that your standing where she cant see you because if she knows its u doing it, she'll learn to fear you. the bang will startle her and she'll stop. when shes quiet for about thirty seconds, go in and praise her and give her a treat. then walk out again and listen by the door again and repeat the same steps until shes just quiet all the time.

thats what i did with jinx and now shes an angel when shes in her crate and she does not fear being in it, most of the time she chooses to be in it when were all in the room together.

lizzyduhh wrote:

i didnt read all the comments so i dont know if someone already mentioned this, but i was told that when you put her in the crate, walk out of the room, close the room door and wait right outside until she starts acting up. when the screaming and destruction starts, hit the door pretty hard, but make sure its closed or that your standing where she cant see you because if she knows its u doing it, she'll learn to fear you. the bang will startle her and she'll stop. when shes quiet for about thirty seconds, go in and praise her and give her a treat. then walk out again and listen by the door again and repeat the same steps until shes just quiet all the time.

thats what i did with jinx and now shes an angel when shes in her crate and she does not fear being in it, most of the time she chooses to be in it when were all in the room together.

I am not denying that this would work, as you've already had success with it. However, I would be concerned that something like that would increase a dog's fear of the crate. If you don't want her to see you because she would learn to fear you, what's keeping her from translating that fear to the crate?

I would honestly try with a method that was a little less harsh and a bit more calming, at least at first.

i just offered it because jinx was almost the same way and it worked.

lizzyduhh wrote:

i just offered it because jinx was almost the same way and it worked.

I have often learned that just because it works with one dog, doesn't mean it would work with another. It's best to get at the psyche of the dog. WHY is it freaking out? It's panicked because it's being left alone. It's scared. Imagine being locked in a small dark room (most people wouldn't like this) and then someone bangs on the wall. You'd jump right? And you'd stay quiet but not because you are calm, but because you're petrified. This method, while it has the potential to work, also has a STRONG potential to backfire and fail. I personally try to do my best to set my dogs up to succeed, which is why I suggest a calmer, more positive method first.

Of course, if the positive methods fail, I believe in doing what works. But I try to exhaust positive methods before resorting to something with negative reinforcement.

If it's true separation anxiety then loud scary banging noises will very likely make it worse. Although, I've heard people having success with a walky talky and a firm, but gentle "quiet" or "no" when there's ruckus. It's a dog, knowing it's psychological motivations is a bet of a guessing game but I would definitely exhaust positive and calming methods first for separation anxiety.

True story: When we went through horrible shelter-dog induced separation anxiety our vet/behaviorist said coming home and getting mad at her for eating something would cause her to fear our return and make the SA worse. (Not that we were like screaming and hitting her.) Instead we had to come home and say, in the nicest, baby-doggy voice "How did you suck this into your crate and destroy it? You are such a little jerk." lol.

NadirCs wrote:

If it's true separation anxiety then loud scary banging noises will very likely make it worse. Although, I've heard people having success with a walky talky and a firm, but gentle "quiet" or "no" when there's ruckus. It's a dog, knowing it's psychological motivations is a bet of a guessing game but I would definitely exhaust positive and calming methods first for separation anxiety.

Agreed.

For what it's worth, the idea behind my comment of "getting at the psyche" was more to be preventative and not reactive. WHY is the dog doing what it's doing? What could I, as the owner, do to prevent it and reinforce good behavior? Instead of saying "You're doing this, so I'm going to do this." Negative reinforcement lets the dog fail, then tries to correct; and while that is sometimes necessary, for something like separation anxiety, by the time the dog "fails" and exhibits signs, it's often too late to try and communicate with the dog to train out of it. That's why medicated calming aids work. Not because we're drugging up the dog, but because that induces the dog into a calm state that allows the training to sink in.

If you read Heather's post... the medication wasn't needed forever. The medication was a temporary aid to help Koda relax enough that her continued training would work. Once he was reassured that the crate was nothing to fear, the medication was no longer necessary. This is the entire reason that reactive training doesn't often work when you're dealing with separation anxiety.

Koda wrote:

For what it's worth, the idea behind my comment of "getting at the psyche" was more to be preventative and not reactive.

Oh no, I was agreeing with you on the psychology end! Ohhh how my parents would make fun of us for specifically taking our dog to a vet who was a trained behaviorist. We had to fill out a 6 page questionnaire about her activities/mental state/etc when dealing with the SA. She basically had her own doggy psychiatrist.

And we used meds too. Basically the distinction is, after the "trigger desensitizing" if you can NOT get her to be calm for even a minute in her crate (she starts freaking out as soon as you shut the door, every time) you might need to pursue the med route. She needs to reach a calm state to start learning.

Tip: Set up a webcam so you can actually leave the house. (We used UStream.tv and watched her from our cellphones!) Dogs generally know if you are just hiding in a different room.

Koda wrote:

Not to guilt you or anything, but if your husband is still thinking of giving her up, that's the absolute WORST thing you can do. A dog with separation anxiety is petrified that it's going to be abandoned. And well, giving her up would completely play into her fears.

So take a few days, take a weekend, to really work with her on this. I think you'll see some results fairly quickly if you do.

I agree with all of Tori's advice. And with this (above). Frosti was owner surrendered to the rescue TWICE for her sep. anxiety - and I believe that's partly to blame for how bad it was. We seriously thought she would have a heart attack or kill herself trying to get to us. She was covered in scabs and injuries from previous attempts, and mysteriously missing one toe each on her back toes (Vet still can't confirm if it's from an escape injury or born that way).

Also ask the vet about Valerian root drops to calm her down - our doggie daycare owner suggested it when Frosti was at her worst. We never had to use it (we accidentally figured out that having her brother in his crate next to her solved part of the anxiety,plus thundershirt, plus yummy kong - plus small interval crate training) - but it may help in calming the anxiety in the crate - and reinforce that it's a good thing.

Hang in there! *hugs*

FWIW, I would never use a loud noise to offset insecurity in the crate. Delilah would just get louder if that ever happened, not be quiet. She had horrible separation anxiety and the only way to deal with it was a lot of patience and positive reinforcement.

mheath0429 wrote:

FWIW, I would never use a loud noise to offset insecurity in the crate. Delilah would just get louder if that ever happened, not be quiet. She had horrible separation anxiety and the only way to deal with it was a lot of patience and positive reinforcement.

+1

We also put on the TV (we don't have a radio) so that it drowns out the sounds outside and makes her feel like people are in the house. We also leave the lights on.

so did we. Either a fan or TV, typically something we would normally watch. LAw and Order SVU marathons are a must at our house - so it was a soothing sound for Delilah.

The banging on the crate/door method would have scared the literal $#it out of Cheyenne and I don't think she would ever step in a crate again. Odin- we tried everything to make the crate "OK" but the crate wasn't the problem. He just didn't want to be in it. He would bark for hours during the night just waiting to get one of us up. So finally we had to use noise to get him to stop. It was gone after that. It really does depend on the dog and what is making them behave like that. If the dog is drooling that much and panicking- banging on anything to make them settle isn't going to work.