I rotate with TOTW and Orijen for Ava's food. I don't know if its worth getting really upset over since she doesn't seem sick at all, but I will have to dig up the bag and check the code and stuff. Our next bag will definitely be Orijen or Acana. Sigh. I wish I could feed raw

Niraya wrote:

ECBeaches wrote:

why risk it.

Why risk it? Anything and EVERYTHING we do and consume comes with SOME risk.

I feed ToTW. It works wonderfully for Bella which is great because of heart problems. I've considered raw - where I live it is in no way a cheaper option so therefore I can't do it. Until my dog exhibits signs of an illness from the food she is on - I see no reason to be in an uproar simply because a dog 3000 miles away MAY have gotten sick on a different brand of dog food that just happens to be processed in the same plant that mine is that went into recall at the same time the dog got sick. Sure - it's highly suspicious - but ya know what? There are also a million other things that could have caused that dog to get sick or it could have already been sick and just started showing signs. Risks.in.EVERYTHING.

Does that mean that I am any less careful? No. My dog is not affected - I will watch her like a hawk to make sure she stays healthy but I think everyone sincerely buys into this paranoia WAY too much. They'd rather run around with pitch forks and torches beating down ANY company's door that has a recall rather than screwing their heads on straight and saying "I'll just be more careful around this time and really watch my dog and at the first sign I'll pull him off the kibble."

Of course there is risk in everything we do. Just walking down the street or going down a flight of stairs can be risky. But in the case of feeding a food from a manufacturer who has a well established track record of many recalls over many many years is probably more risky than opting for a smaller manufacturer whose track record is spotless or at least much cleaner. If you buy a product multiple times that consistently breaks or makes you sick, do you keep buying that product and supporting the company?

Kristina brought up another reason I don't support companies that use Diamond to manufacture their products. When you buy anything you are supporting the company and their practices. A company that has poor customer service, dishonest practices, and a lengthy history of periodic problems hardly seems like a company worth supporting and throwing your money at...well, at least I don't consider that something worth supporting. (This is why my list of recommended kibbles is very very short by the way.) But to each his own.

I am a firm believer in what works. If it works for Lance Mackey and 99% of mushers up here it's good enough for me.

But no, the wife decided that we needed to be more "organic" more "veggies", less "fillers"... Result is we bought TOTW. Expensive, generated lots of loose stools, so convinced the wife she should stick to organic in her diet and leave us out of it. The pack is back on Red Paw, it works, period.

siberian

Huskyluv wrote:

Of course there is risk in everything we do. Just walking down the street or going down a flight of stairs can be risky. But in the case of feeding a food from a manufacturer who has a well established track record of many recalls over many many years is probably more risky than opting for a smaller manufacturer whose track record is spotless or at least much cleaner. If you buy a product multiple times that consistently breaks or makes you sick, do you keep buying that product and supporting the company?

Kristina brought up another reason I don't support companies that use Diamond to manufacture their products. When you buy anything you are supporting the company and their practices. A company that has poor customer service, dishonest practices, and a lengthy history of periodic problems hardly seems like a company worth supporting and throwing your money at...well, at least I don't consider that something worth supporting. (This is why my list of recommended kibbles is very very short by the way.) But to each his own.

No, you're right. If the product you buy consistently breaks or makes you sick you don't continue to buy it. I haven't encountered such things with ToTW. My point was, however, that MOST of these people from what I've read (I don't mean specifically people here) have never personally experienced ANY problem with Diamond or Taste of the Wild and actively have said how GREAT their dogs are doing on it but they buy into all of the hysteria simply because someone else had one (not consistent but just ONE) bad experience and starts rumors - it doesn't even necessarily have had to have been in relation to any of this stuff now.

For me, personally, Taste of the Wild has done wonders for Bella. She's very healthy on it. I looked into previous recalls over the passed few years - I actually found very few Diamond product recalls and less brand specific (ToTW) recalls - found more Purina recalls than anything but I could also have not been looking in the right places.

Because of Bella's heart I really do watch her health closely. She hasn't done well on a number of other foods and Taste of the Wild was one of only two that she did well on. My dogs health is first and foremost and knowing that she does well on Taste of the Wild gives me more incentive to keep her on it UNTIL she shows ANY sign that it's not agreeing with her. I will rule out any health problems that might have caused her getting sick also not just saying "the food is making her sick because x x x and x all happened at once and the stars aligned so it MUST be the food!" as some people are willing to do (again not anyone on this forum but I do know of people like this X_X).

Though I switched away from TOTW earlier this year for no particular reason other then rotation of the diet all these Diamond recalls make me leery about returning in the future.

Dog and people are similar, some do well on one brand others don't.

Me for example back in the 70's I did quite well on a diet of mostly pizza and beer. The only side effects I had were an occasional hangover and ballooned to well over 200 pounds. Now I eat plenty of brown rice, tofu and drink one beer a day. Results are 175.8 pounds and no hangovers, but still getting old.

harrise wrote:

Raw is confusing and I have yet to find a way to make it cheaper. If it was easily made cheaper I would look into it more seriously. Then I would need a dedicated freezer and have to figure out all that portioning and supplemental rigmarole I can't even read through. Not for me.

I find it interesting that everyone comments on the cost of it. It has actually been WAAAAY cheaper to do raw than kibble. We were buying Solid Gold Wolf Cub 50 bucks every 2 weeks.

My chicken for 5 dogs costs me 12 at the MOST a week, (The grocery store puts 10 pound bags of chicken on sale every weekend for 5 bucks ) and then the occasional RMBs.

But then I do understand that some people do not have the cheap source of meats.

I will say though that it is confusing on portions etc. I just feed mine until they don't eat anymore, and sometimes they eat it all, and sometimes the barely eat anything.

I really want to switch mine off of TOTW, Zoey has such a sensitive tummy and TOTW she thrives on, but I am nervous about keeping them on it. I know they do great on THK but I can't afford that right now for 2 super active Huskies. I spend like $45 every 3 weeks on TOTW, anyone know of good dog food in that price range?

Okay well I just ordered the dogs a 10lb box of THK Keen. I used a wag.com code. Put in my moms address and paid with paypal :p got it for $41! WAGNY25 I got free shipping and 25% off my order!

Jennet&Embry wrote:

I really want to switch mine off of TOTW, Zoey has such a sensitive tummy and TOTW she thrives on, but I am nervous about keeping them on it. I know they do great on THK but I can't afford that right now for 2 super active Huskies. I spend like $45 every 3 weeks on TOTW, anyone know of good dog food in that price range?

I've seen Canidae in the $45 range. It's supposedly really good.

To put simpy no company would stop shipment of a product "Just to be safe"... Dogs had to have been getting sick (more than one)...to cause enough concern to test and pull the product. It costs the company too much money otherwise. For them to say such a thing is not being honest. I understand this is not a nationwide problem. But we, as loving pet owners, should know which batches raised the concern and which states they were sent to. Even store owners can't allow the consumer to make the best choice because of the companies dishonesty. When I found out that one of my doggie customers "Fritz" got sick off a bag of the buffalo TOTW formula and the product codes matched the one the company gave her...and I had them on the shelf I felt awful. Why didn't the distributer mention product codes to me? No, they simply told me "We are stopping shipping, just to be safe". Total lie on their part. I switched to Earthborn...no more TOTW drama for me.

Quote :

I find it interesting that everyone comments on the cost of it. It has actually been WAAAAY cheaper to do raw than kibble. We were buying Solid Gold Wolf Cub 50 bucks every 2 weeks.

My chicken for 5 dogs costs me 12 at the MOST a week, (The grocery store puts 10 pound bags of chicken on sale every weekend for 5 bucks ) and then the occasional RMBs.

But then I do understand that some people do not have the cheap source of meats.

I will say though that it is confusing on portions etc. I just feed mine until they don't eat anymore, and sometimes they eat it all, and sometimes the barely eat anything.

How you come up with Raw being cheaper than dry is beyond me. NEVER have I seen good quality raw cheaper. First of all, Raw is the healthiest way to feed your dog, and that comes at a price. My only guess is that you are buying people food rather than dog food. And there is a big difference. While doing the people diet for your dog can be made healthy...Raw diets such as Bravo come complete and balanced for your dog. Therefore getting the maximum nutrition. When people think of Raw diets for their pets, they are not thinking people food. I would love to feed my dog the raw complete and balanced diet for my dog....but she would eat my bank account dry lol. I don't choose to do the people food diet either, because making sure she has exactly what she needs isn't easy. So I do the holistic dry, with some all natural canned mixed in. Freeze dried treats are good to...

Huskyluv wrote:

Niraya wrote:

ECBeaches wrote:

why risk it.

Why risk it? Anything and EVERYTHING we do and consume comes with SOME risk.

I feed ToTW. It works wonderfully for Bella which is great because of heart problems. I've considered raw - where I live it is in no way a cheaper option so therefore I can't do it. Until my dog exhibits signs of an illness from the food she is on - I see no reason to be in an uproar simply because a dog 3000 miles away MAY have gotten sick on a different brand of dog food that just happens to be processed in the same plant that mine is that went into recall at the same time the dog got sick. Sure - it's highly suspicious - but ya know what? There are also a million other things that could have caused that dog to get sick or it could have already been sick and just started showing signs. Risks.in.EVERYTHING.

Does that mean that I am any less careful? No. My dog is not affected - I will watch her like a hawk to make sure she stays healthy but I think everyone sincerely buys into this paranoia WAY too much. They'd rather run around with pitch forks and torches beating down ANY company's door that has a recall rather than screwing their heads on straight and saying "I'll just be more careful around this time and really watch my dog and at the first sign I'll pull him off the kibble."

Of course there is risk in everything we do. Just walking down the street or going down a flight of stairs can be risky. But in the case of feeding a food from a manufacturer who has a well established track record of many recalls over many many years is probably more risky than opting for a smaller manufacturer whose track record is spotless or at least much cleaner. If you buy a product multiple times that consistently breaks or makes you sick, do you keep buying that product and supporting the company?

Kristina brought up another reason I don't support companies that use Diamond to manufacture their products. When you buy anything you are supporting the company and their practices. A company that has poor customer service, dishonest practices, and a lengthy history of periodic problems hardly seems like a company worth supporting and throwing your money at...well, at least I don't consider that something worth supporting. (This is why my list of recommended kibbles is very very short by the way.) But to each his own.

All I can say is...have Belle get sick once. Have her go to the bathroom blood and end up in the hospital. Then tell me it was worth the risk.

ECBeaches wrote:

How you come up with Raw being cheaper than dry is beyond me. NEVER have I seen good quality raw cheaper. First of all, Raw is the healthiest way to feed your dog, and that comes at a price. My only guess is that you are buying people food rather than dog food. And there is a big difference. While doing the people diet for your dog can be made healthy...Raw diets such as Bravo come complete and balanced for your dog. Therefore getting the maximum nutrition. When people think of Raw diets for their pets, they are not thinking people food. I would love to feed my dog the raw complete and balanced diet for my dog....but she would eat my bank account dry lol. I don't choose to do the people food diet either, because making sure she has exactly what she needs isn't easy. So I do the holistic dry, with some all natural canned mixed in. Freeze dried treats are good to...

Raw premade diets are grossly overpriced and are "filled" with unnecessary things such as carrots, broccoli, and blueberries. I would 100% rather feed my dog human grade meat than meat purchased for consumption by dogs.

We have done PMR (prey model raw- meat, bones, and organs) for over 2 years. There is no "secret formula" to canine complete nutrition. And the fact that some idiot in the AAFCO can call crapola like Beneful and Science diet "nutritionally complete" eases any discomfort I have about making sure my dogs diets are "nutritionally complete." As long as you provide some sort of rotation of meats and the inclusion of organ meats... You are doing your dog beyond justice.

Feeding raw straight from the markets here I could feed 5 Siberians on $35 a week. That is CHEAP- for human grade meats! We are doing grinds from a company now because the amount of meat we had in the freezer (and the amount of space it took up) got crazy. As such i'm still paying significantly less /dog than a quality dry kibble (such as Acana or Orijen)

Sorry for the tangent... I just don't get the whole "nutritionally complete" thing. Dogs didn't run around in trench coats in laboratories figuring out the exact amount of ingredients they needed to have a nutritionally complete diet.

ECBeaches wrote:

How you come up with Raw being cheaper than dry is beyond me. NEVER have I seen good quality raw cheaper. First of all, Raw is the healthiest way to feed your dog, and that comes at a price. My only guess is that you are buying people food rather than dog food. And there is a big difference. While doing the people diet for your dog can be made healthy...Raw diets such as Bravo come complete and balanced for your dog. Therefore getting the maximum nutrition. When people think of Raw diets for their pets, they are not thinking people food. I would love to feed my dog the raw complete and balanced diet for my dog....but she would eat my bank account dry lol. I don't choose to do the people food diet either, because making sure she has exactly what she needs isn't easy. So I do the holistic dry, with some all natural canned mixed in. Freeze dried treats are good to...

For many, feeding raw IS cheaper if you can do a little bit of work. As Kristina said the premade frozen raw is insanely expensive but most raw feeders do either PMR or a BARF diet which costs significantly less. I buy human grade meat for my dogs and it is cheaper for me to do that than it is to feed a high quality kibble like Orijen. Joining a co-op, purchasing in bulk for bulk discounts, and stocking up when meats go on sale are some of the ways that you can make raw feeding very affordable. I'm saving money by feeding raw, but I'd be in the poorhouse if I fed frozen premade raw for sure.

Feeding raw isn't an exact science and it's really not hard to do. You achieve balance over time and you can always add a supplement to the raw diet like Nupro, Wholistic Canine Complete, or Missing Link to give you a little extra peace of mind.

ECBeaches wrote:

All I can say is...have Belle get sick once. Have her go to the bathroom blood and end up in the hospital. Then tell me it was worth the risk.

Here's some insight for you. My dog has a congenital heart defect called Subaortic Stenosis and she also has an irregular heartbeat - meaning her heart actually drops beats. EVERY day my dog is at risk of dying, or not leading a full, long and fulfilling life. EVERY day I live knowing that my dog could die today, or the next day, maybe if I'm lucky I'll get another year with her. Maybe she'll live to see her second birthday, may be not. EVERYTHING that I do with my dog is more of a risk than what you do with a healthy dog. I can't run her without thinking "Is this too much for her heart?" but she loves running. I am VERY aware of my dogs health. She has an excellent cardiologist that she sees and she has an excellent vet. She DOESN'T do well on a lot of foods.

So, yes, I WILL take the risk - because my dog BREATHING is a risk to her. But you can be damn sure that at the first sign of ANY problems - she goes to the vet and if the food is ruled the primary source you can bet she'll be pulled from it.

They stopped distribution on their products because salmonella, while still a threat to pets, is more of a threat to HUMANS.

Um..I hate to jump in while things are hot, but I've got Blaze on Kirkland's Signature Puppy Formula food through Costco (made by Diamond) and I have seen no problems. They also offer a grain-free called Nature's Domain that is one star-level below TOTW on dogfoodadvisor.com. Puppy is $14/bag and ND is $36/bag.

I am in Delaware , Not to create panic , However due to lack of disclosure from the company its only fair to tell what I have seen / experienced , with my current bag of TOTW , I suspect it May be a salomenella related issue , 1 day after sashas feeding , I went to get her food bowl , a few moist nuggets left behind , she does not eat the food dry , does not like the hard dry version (lazy) anyway her 2 cups of food gets approx 1/2 hour soak in water before she recieves it , it doubles in size after absorbing the water , ..... "Under the remaining nuggets stuck in the bowl , Growth , green moldy as well as an opaque pinkish slime " .this is an indoor bowl , in the house , no flys or other insects present at this time of year (not yet) ... Yes she loves the food and has never turned her nose up at it as has for others , After starting this fresh new bag of food her stools have taken a 50% decrease in density , not quite loose or runny , but certainly not the medium firm stool she usually deposits . While Salmenella , is bacteria related , I at present am going to treat it like you would eggs ..... Her food with the water is now getting a 4/5 minute cook or boil , as I hope this will decrease , if present , any chance of the bacteria entering her gut . Its just a caution on my ,part , as yet cant prove if her upset is stress related , weather , the green grass , or the dog food , If it is from the food I hope to do some part by boiling it and hope to killl the bacteria , just as would happen with cooked eggs ......... BestRegardsAll.

Diamond Expands Voluntary Recall (as of 5/4/12):

http://diamondpetrecall.com/diamond-expands-voluntary-recall/#more-210

I am disgusted to be honest. We all trusted them. Now I'm wondering if the reason Cato had diarrhea is because our bag is on the recall...At least we switched to Acana

Well, we'll be switching to Acana and Orijen then. Such a shame :/

Hmm, Faolan eats Taste of the Wild and we are already over halfway through out current bag and he has had no issues so I guess we are fine. I probably won't be switching foods since he loves TOTW. I'll just make sure the next bag we buy isn't part of the recall.

Diamond has expanded the recall to include Kirkland dry dog food from Costco also.

Kirkland recall info is also on the link: http://diamondpetrecall.com/diamond-expands-voluntary-recall/

Huskyluv wrote:

Diamond has expanded the recall to include Kirkland dry dog food from Costco also.

For those looking for another grain free dog food, a few suggestions would include:
Acana
Orijen
Fromm
Great Life

Of course there are others, but just a few suggestions.

Also, if you want to see what foods have a recall history, you can check the fda site:
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/newpetfoodrecalls/#Dog

More confirmation for feeding Raw.

yep, I agree.