So I have to come to my husky fam and let it all out and vent.

Bruiser and Frankie had a full blown out, straight up dog fight tonight.

I'm am so upset over so many things in this whole situation. As some of you know already, Bruiser is a very fearful dog for the most part. In the past few weeks (months maybe?), Bruiser's fear has increased as well as his guarding behavior. Every morning, bruiser has been scared about something and we can't figure out what. He refuses to eat in the morning and then hides under the bed and refuses to come out. I noticed that his play with Frankie has seemed to escalate as well and he is more chasing Frankie from something than playing. It started off just guarding my mom when she would come home, but lately he just seems to chase Frankie away from an area. Usually Frankie runs away and starts barking and giving a play bow, but I noticed Frankie starting to get scared when Bruiser does this. I have talked to mom and dad about this and they just kinda blow it off. I did talk to my trainer not too long ago who wants to come back out to observe but scheduling with the holidays and such was tough. Plus, I thought it was getting better so I didn't push it. I did try to get video to send to him, but everytime I pulled the camera out both dogs stopped.

Anyway back to tonight. We have company, my aunt with her nasty little chi who sends Frankie into a tizzy because he puts all of his efforts restraining himself to stay away. But the chi was nowhere near and had nothing to do with it. While we were playing Monopoly, Bruiser got into the kitchen trash and pulled out some napkins. Frankie went over and Bruiser just went bolistic on Frankie. Initially Frankie tried to run away but Bruiser persisted and got him. I guess Frankie had enough and actually fought back. I was not able to separate them on my own (which has NEVER happened when their play escalates). My dad came in and grabbed Frankie and I grabbed Bruiser by the back legs and he turned and bit me then went back at Frankie and bit him in the back when he was trying to walk away with my dad. I got so pissed off when Bruiser did this and tried to snap at me again, I nailed him with my leg into the wall. I feel so incredibly horrible about my reaction toward him. I am usually the one who remains calm, cool, and collective. I just never expected it to get that bad. While it probably lasted less than a minute, if felt like forever. They were both biting and not letting go.
I am very concerned that Frankie fought back. I never saw him do anything like that before. Now I believe he was defending himself, but it still scares me.
I am also a little worried that I have to work most of the weekend and leave them with my parents, aunt, and uncle which could be disaterous. Especially since my parents refuse to see Bruiser's behavior as problematic. They usually feel it's frankie's fault.
I will be calling my trainer first thing tomorrow and see how soon he can come out.
The worst part of it all was that my son was right there to witness all of it (including my reaction to Bruiser) and was hysterical crying.

Sorry this was so long. I literally feel sick to my stomach over this. Thanks for letting me vent.

Human reaction, when bruiser turned at you again, instinct kicked in and shit happens. Dont beat yourself up over it. Explain it to your son. Can you keep them seperated by rooms still you can get help from the trainer?

Like Jill said it is our human reaction, dont worry about it. I guess I would be worried that your son would somehow get in the middle of the fight. I have a friend that their black lab was really sweet and then just started acting very weird and mean and it ended up being he was seeing a ghost in the house and was terrified by it. I would definately try and keep them seperate and get help right away. Have either one of them been acting sick or in pain? I only ask because maybe they are acting out do to not feeling well or eye sight or hearing goes and they get startled. Have them checked out and good luck. We have all reacted at one time to our dogs.

libbybell74 wrote:

Have either one of them been acting sick or in pain? I only ask because maybe they are acting out do to not feeling well or eye sight or hearing goes and they get startled. Have them checked out and good luck. We have all reacted at one time to our dogs.

With any other dog that would probably be my intial thought. However, Bruiser has always been on the fearful side. My mom has been through a few trainers with him, the last being my trainer who worked with Frankie. My mom saw such a turn around in Frankie that she hired him (this was before we lived together). My trainer is straight up honest and tells it like it is. My mom had hard time with that, but she tried to follow through. She has a very hard time establishing any form of leadership with him and inadvertanly reinforces some of his fearfulness and resource guarding. When he gets possessive around Frankie, I intervene as necessary but Frankie is typically submissive so it never turned violent and I rarely have to intervene. Frankie kind of had no choice but to fight back tonight as bruiser had him and wouldn't let go.
I am curious about the ghost thing though. I am a strong believer, but we haven't had any strange occurances around that I am aware of. Hmmm. I wish I could get into bruiser's head.
Thanks for the kind words. I feel a little less like a monster.

Your reaction was instinct and guess what so was Frankie's. When something latches on to you and it hurts like hell you react a whole lot different then you do when it is even aggressive play.

Frankie fought back this time because even he knew it had to be done to save his own behind. Will he become aggressive, highly unlikely. But I'm sure he'll be more then willing to stand his ground from now on unless Bruiser was trashing his ass during the fight.

When Tinola attacked Adobo last year I, after I separated them I had to put a foot to Tinola's behind to make her snap out of it. Its not loosing control of your senses, its taking control as needed.

Just like animals, when a human feels threatened (or feel that their family is threatened) the reaction is fight or flight. We are no different in our instincts than our dogs are. 1) Bruiser went after you and the fight was not backing down, and 2) I'm going to wager a guess that had he NOT already bitten you, your reaction would probably not have been as strong. Although we can't communicate with them directly (meaning speak or rationalize with our dogs) that does NOT mean we can't hold them accountable for their actions. In the thick of a fight that was not settling, I don't know anyone who would NOT have used force after a while to get an animal's attention and calm him/her down. You did nothing wrong. Overreaction or something to be ashamed of would be if you threw Bruiser into a wall and started wailing on him after he had snapped out it. But that doesn't sound like the case here. Don't beat yourself up over this. You did nothing wrong.

I would definitely consult with your trainer though. I do think that as animals get older, their personalities change, just like ours. If your parents are reinforcing his behavior, you had a recipe for disaster waiting to come to a head like it did. Sounds like your parents need another bout of tough love and Bruiser needs some more boundaries.

I would also consider separating the dogs while you are working. Baby gates or something, just to keep the isolated and keep your mind at ease.

I agree with everyone. Denise- don't beat yourself up. You tried to separate him from Frankie nicely and that didn't work. You did what was necessary to end the fight and to get both of them away from each other. Whatever you had do to w/ Bruiser was a much safer than to let the dogs fight it out.

You can only push them so far until they (human or canine) is going to fight back. Don't worry about Frankie, he was just defending himself.

I do think however that things are going to become increasingly difficult until Bruiser gets his fair share of the training. You gotta get them onboard

I'm sorry you went through that Denise. It's scary as shit! I'm pretty sure that you read the post that I posted on FB last week about Kody and Mya getting into a nasty fight while on a walk? I've never seen Kody so vicious! Over a damn piece of bread on the street...ugh. He's totally back to normal though. Still being very submissive to Mya and letting her play her alpha roll. I don't think Frankie will become aggressive. It was just something that happened at that moment. He had to defend himself...any of us would.

I would just ask your parents to be extra careful with leaving anything out that they might get into a fight about. I do this, every day, 24-7...lol. Mya is totally a guarder also so I need to cover all angles to avoid a fight. Or her attacking Kody I should say.

Were either of them hurt? Have they been together since? Is there a way to block off that area that Bruiser chases Frankie away from? Oh, and btw, YOU DID NOTHING WRONG!

Thanks guys! It's nice to have a place to come to. I think I have resolved my feeling about my reaction to Bruiser. Tori just like you said, I did not conitunously hit him or anything. It was a one shot to kind of snap us both out of it. I guess it worked because that was the end of it.
I am just still so uneasy about the situation itself. Bruiser went totally "red zone". And the excuses being made for it are driving me crazy. "Frankie has been challanging him" "Frankie didn't intially run away this time" "Frankie is getting in his space" yadayadayada....
While all of this may be true, I don't think it's an excuse. I am willing to see Frankie's role in any of it, but at the advice of my trainer not my family. Bruiser usually does a bite at or nip and release. This time he bit and no release. He was completely in a red zone while Frankie was more than relieved to be "saved".
Melissa- No one got hurt real bad. Frankie had a superficial mark on it's neck but no gushing blood. I got some scratches on my hands, and Bruiser is fine as far as we can tell. They have been together, but Frankie is scared of Bruiser. Bruiser made a feeble attempt to play and Frankie ran away. I just took Frankie with me because I am too on edge to deal with it. My uncle just got up which usually illicits a romp around. I heard a growl and jumped up and got Frankie. So I know I am NOT in a good place right now.
Bruiser had actually lifted the lid of the trash can and pulled out some napkins from dinner which is what started this whole mess. So we are just trying to keep them out of the kitchen and reinforced the trash can.
I am waiting to hear back from my trainer. In the meantime I need to try to relax myself. I know my tension doesn't help so I am trying to stay away rather than add any fuel to the fire.

Don´t blame yourself, you did what was necessary. You should definately seperate them from each other the for the next time, atlest when you ar enot home. I don´t want to be negative, but if something like this happes it can happen that they will never be friends again. Even if everything seems to be normal again, keep an eye on them.

Frankie just defended himself, don´t blame him for it, just like you he did what he had to do.

My trainer is coming out tonight. Yay I am very happy he could get here so soon since I know he is booked.
Things have been pretty good since that night. They are back to normal. We had one minor incident of Bruiser growling over a treat and to my surprise both my mom and dad handled it very well and followed through. I still want professional guidance on how to handle the guarding behavior, bruiser's ridiculous fears, and Frankie's annoying little brother behavior.
My mom is real nervous about the trainer coming over. He can be pretty hard on her, but he is truthful and helpful. I think she is purposely trying to avoid being home when he comes tonight
He just doesn't sugar coat it for her. And the fact remains that Bruiser is a pit mix with one strike against him. Another strike for him will put him in the "vicious" dog category or possibly PTS. I know she thinks that I don't care for Bruiser, but I love him very much which is why I want to work on this. I want to protect him and I want him to be happy and enjoy his life with us. Fingers and paws crossed that all goes well tonight.

Good luck Denise

Good luck!!! Sending positive thoughts your way!

I hope things go well for you tonight Dee! I can understand why you'd be so distraught over the situation; I'd definitely feel the same. I've only been in the middle of a dog fight once and it was very scary. A pack of pit-bulls rolled up on me and one grabbed hold of my pant leg and shook me so furiously I almost fell down; I was 15 at the time. I ended up having to kick him in the side in order for him to let go. Granted it was technically my fault. He attacked my dog and I provoked him by rushing towards him screaming at the top of my lungs.

Hopefully your mom and dad will get on board and everyone will be on the same page. It's critical all parties involved remain vigilant and consistent throughout this process.

Fingers crossed for you! Please keep us updated.

Thanks Guys!!

So I am totally shocked!!! The trainer comes in and sees Bruiser for the first time in over a year. He was so surprised at what a different dog he is! He said he was very impressed and that we are doing a great job with him.

His overall assessment is that they are fine. He actually thinks that they have a great relationship. He said we handled the situation well and after watching the two of them together, he believes that they have a very good understanding of one another. He really doesn't feel that we need really need to intervene because they overall are very good at working it out with each other. He said he thought he was going to have to be really hard on us and we would have alot of work to do, but was pleasantly surprised that we are doing everything we should. He did not recommend ongoing training again. He just said to keep in touch if I need anything.

As far as the actual incident, he doesn't think we have much to worry about. He said it happens in a pack and if it was really a true case of a red zone agression there would have been blood shed and would have conitnued longer than it did. Apparently my reaction was not overboard, he said his would have been much worse. He specializes in aggressive dogs, so I trust his judgement. He also said it was very good that we did not try to keep them separated after. Well we tried but failed which turned out to be a good thing.

He gave me some tips on the fearfulness. Such as constantly play loud sounds in the background throughout the day on the computer, start off with the sound low and gradually increase the sound as he becomes desensitized. He recommended we record my mom sneezing and do the same with that sound since he is afraid of my moms sneezes He had some sounds of fireworks on his phone that he played for a little bit and in a short time Bruiser forgot about the sounds playing so this may work for him.

As far as the guarding, he said not to intervene between to the two of them with the toys and showed us when to correct if food is involved. He said it's not bad since people (especially my son) can take anything from either of them without a reaction.

So overall it went really well and I am completely at ease. My mom wasn't here because she admitted she was worried about what he would say to her, but she was relieved when I told her how pleased he was with how both dogs were doing, but especially Bruiser. I was also pleased that my dad stayed through the whole session and was very receptive.

It was so worth it to have him come and assess the situation. Not only does he know dogs, but knows my dogs from their CRAZY days. I know I'm a total worry wart with these darn dogs. But it was worth it just to put my mind at ease.

Thanks guys for the contuniued support throughout my craziness

BFFs again. At one point it looked like they were holding paws



sorry for the choppy cell phone pic

Awwww Adorable pic! Glad all is well now!

I'm so glad things are back to normal and that the trainer wasn't too concerned! I"m sure it was a total relief to get his input.

I love the pic BTW...they're adorable!

Maybe Bruiser finally realizes that Frankie isn't the wuss he thought.

That's awesome Dee! Great news!

That´s great. Sounds like a trainer that prefers real talk, that is good

Here4thePics wrote:

Maybe Bruiser finally realizes that Frankie isn't the wuss he thought.

agreed!