and Several interesting things came out of the visit.

I've taken Sinatra to 4 different Vets in the last 3 years, because I never really found one that worked well with me and my boy. So we decided to load all the animals up and take a 40 minute trip out To Courtney’s Cat Vet. That is a story in itself. (1 big dog crying in the back, 2 small cats hissing from their cages, I car sick Joe trying to keep them apart and calm.)
1) He was the first Vet to not like Iams. He recommends Pedigree. And stated the ingredients are less important than the process the puts the ingredients together. And guess what, we (pet owners) don’t easily have access on how the stuff gets put together. But he says Pedigree does a good job of doing it. Biggest concern is the toxic processes “most” companies use to make the kibble.
2) We talked to him about BARF mentioned on this site. His response “Fad diet.” Specifically high fat diets are bad no matter if the eater is carnivore, herbivore, or omnivore. Lamb, Beef and Turkey are all high fat meats, daily eating of high fat food is unhealthy.
3) I’ve been using Revolution to prevent Heartworm. He said that animals on Revolution that need to have anesthesia have passed away during surgery. He recommended Heartguard Plus.
4) Sinatra’s head shaking and sneezing were most likely not diet related allergies but dust, mold, or pollen allergies. The Husky breed is one of the most prone dogs environmental allergies. And to bath Sinatra using Regular Selsun Blue Dandruff Shampoo (not medicated, not menthol) when the allergies are acting up.

Whoa lots of info in one trip.
What do y’all think of pedigree? Any responses to the Vet’s reply to BARF? If Revolution + plus anesthesia can kill pets how can it still be sold? Anyone else use dander shampoo to wash their Huskies? Other comments? The vet acted knowledgeable enough and was friendly to both Sinatra and I, if only it didn’t involve such a long road trip to see him…

TyphonInc wrote:

)
1) He was the first Vet to not like Iams. He recommends Pedigree. And stated the ingredients are less important than the process the puts the ingredients together. And guess what, we (pet owners) don’t easily have access on how the stuff gets put together. But he says Pedigree does a good job of doing it. Biggest concern is the toxic processes “most” companies use to make the kibble.

Vets are typically sponsored by certain foods - I have found that the "holistic" approach to kibble is the way to go... Evo, Innova, Orijen...these are all HUMAN grade food - which means YOU could take a handful and snack if you so choose! Honest to goodness you can! This is the store where we first started our pups on this kind of kibble. Our GSD/Husky can't handle the kibble but our Jack Russell and cats loved the new stuff. But we feed the all raw now which I'm going to next. http://louisespetconnection.com/Ourfoods.html

TyphonInc wrote:

) We talked to him about BARF mentioned on this site. His response “Fad diet.” Specifically high fat diets are bad no matter if the eater is carnivore, herbivore, or omnivore. Lamb, Beef and Turkey are all high fat meats, daily eating of high fat food is unhealthy.

As for the "fad diet" comment - I say he's full of crap! I know that technically the all protein thing is like the human Atkins diet, but humans go stupid and pig out on stuff like fried chicken wings, salami and other yummy, yet fattening foods! However, our GSD/Husky, Evo (not named after the food) eats a whole chicken a day and is in GREAT health. Our Jack Russell has always had skin problems and now has none! All our animals are on raw food and have the shiniest coats ever and absolutely no skin problems. There's less shedding, an excitement for meal time and I can tell you that poops are firm and don't have that awful stink that dog poop tends to have! And the litter box? We have 2 cats and you could go 2 weeks and not clean it and you won't even smell it! That's HUGE in my book!

We feed the animals 4% of their ideal body weight or if a kitten/puppy 10% of current weight. If you are doing your regular kibble you can find anywhere (Wal-Mart, Kroger, PetSmart) then it probably won't be cheaper. However, if you go to the Human Grade kibble - it'll cost you more, but you'll feed SO much less because the quality is SO much better. If you go to raw, then it'll cost about the same as the Human Grade kibble. We go to Sam's Club for the chicken and for a two pack of whole chickens, it's approximately $7-$9 depending on the size. The dogs get that - every now and again the cats will have a good gnaw on a wing or something. We occasionally get gizzards for the cats as well, chicken/turkey necks - they love all those! Otherwise, the cats get ground turkey. Everyone gets a raw egg (shell and all for those who will eat it), sometimes pumpkin to stop any occasional upset tummies or just for a change in flavor...snacks are a piece of carrot, an apple, organic and grain free treats, any veg we drop on the floor during cooking - they'll eat just about anything - watermelon included!

You will probably have a detox period from the purina/Iams/pedigree and have some diarrhea but it will stop! Use some canned pumpkin (not pie mix) or sweet potato for fiber. No biggie. You'll have some orange poop but that's always amusing!

My MIL's dog had cancer and the oncology vet told her that grains in the kibbles can cause it. Apparently, grains are a nasty thing for our four-legged family. Also, my husband and I did some research on what goes into regular kibble and it wasn't nice. Here are some we found: http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359 ; http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/DogFood ; http://www.naturalnews.com/012647.html

I hope this doesn't turn you off too much but I will tell you the main thing that convinced my husband and me that this was the right way to go. After losing our GS/Mastiff after only 10 years, we stumbled in to Louise's Pet Connection (web address near the top). As we were talking to one of the owners, one of the 9 cats who live in the store, came up looking for a cuddle. The cat had the shiniest coat we'd ever seen and we asked what the cats were being fed. She told us raw food and then told us about her cat who had kidney failure and was told by her vet to just put her down. She refused to listen and found a vet who suggested raw food. She did what was suggested and that cat is still alive 9 years later! That was enough to sell me! And now, our Jack Russell who was on Thyroid medication, was just taken off them because the raw diet has corrected the problem - not to mention that she no longer has skin issues!

Sorry this went on so long, but this is just something my husband and I feel very strongly about and wanted to share! Hope it helps!

Jessica

I would say that opinions regarding diet are a personal choice and everyone is entitled to their own.

We personally have found a BARF diet to be an excellent choice for our dogs - they enjoy their food, have good stools, glossy coats, clean teeth and very healthy active dogs. Our main choice of meat in their diet is Chicken - they occasionally have beef, lamb or offal. They also have bones from the butchers, vegetables, and treats. What I like most about this diet is I have control over every ingredient that I feed to my dogs.

As to it being a 'fad diet' I personally don't agree with this, as in my reading about the BARF diet it has been around for many years. I think that perhaps with the dawn of a lot of Dog Forums like this one, it has now become more widely known about as people are recommending it as a good thing for their animals.

I know there has always been a lot of information written about various types of diet; dry food, wet foot and raw and sometimes its like wading through treacle trying to take it all in and decide whats best for your dog but I am of the opinion that as long as your dog is eating like he is enjoying his food and is happy and healthy its all down to personal choice.

Well I can say with certainty that I don't like this new vet you went to one bit. lol

First off, Pedigree is junk and would be better off in the ground than in any dog. Second, "high fat" MEAT in a raw diet is a million times better than corn (I believe that's what makes up the bulk of Pedigree) any day.

I have never heard any such thing about Revolution having any affect combined with anaesthesia. However, I will say that I don't recommend Revolution either, nor does my wonderful holistic vet who promotes raw feeding. Too many dogs have contracted heartworm even on Revolution to make it worth the risk to me. Plus, when my chihuahua came to us she was on Revolution and she still had fleas. I'd recommend Heartgard Plus over Revolution any day. FWIW, my sibe is on Iverhart Max and my chihuahua is on Interceptor for heartworm prevention.

Never heard of those bathing solutions either. However based on the rest of the vets 'advice' I wouldn't be too likely to follow the Selsun Blue idea either. JMO.

I don't have much to add other than most vet's know absolute diddly squat about food and diet. Val and Cath are right and vet's are normally sponsored by a particular brand of food.

My thought process has always been what is good for a wild dog is good for a domesticated one. That being said, I don't have the money or the time (mostly because of my current location) to feed BARF, but I think it's the best diet I have ever heard. What do we think that dogs ate at the turn of the last century before dog food became mass produced?

It's true, some dogs do great on Iams and Pedigree, etc... but huskies are normally different and diet is no exception. Personally, when Koda has snuck my parent's dog's food or anything else not of his kibble, he gets ill. I have found that my dog does best on a fish based diet (Kibble or raw) without grains. When he was eating grain, he was getting soft stools.

Like Cath said, diet is a personal choice and I think that it depends on the owner and individual dog... not every dog is the same, but finding a food that works for your dog, keeps him healthy and happy as well as keeping YOU happy is more important than any vet's opinion.

I also think this vet is not worth your time or gas money. Have you looked around your area for a holistic vet?

Hey Hey,

Sorry I havn't been able to reply. Doing the BIG move this week. (Sad note: this is my last night with Sinatra, for a while now.)

I knew when I posted the Vets responses the Diet Issue would be big reply topic. I think I want to continue to research on my own whats what with diet. Hoping to get a chance to read these links:

http://louisespetconnection.com/Ourfoods.html
http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359
http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/DogFood
http://www.naturalnews.com/012647.html

Revolution: Snatra came back negative for heart worm and I already bought my supply for this year, so I'll will be sticking with that but plan on changing stuff up next year.

Dandruff shampoo? We already bought a bottle of that as well, and guess what his sneezing is about 1/4 what it was. So.... Maybe this is working?

TyphonInc wrote:

I think I want to continue to research on my own whats what with diet.

It's nice to hear you're going to look a bit more into it yourself. I wish more people did this rather than just asking on a forum what people recommend and never doing the research to find out why people say one is better than the other. Kudos!

Quote :

I knew when I posted the Vets responses the Diet Issue would be big reply topic. I think I want to continue to research on my own whats what with diet.

And this is precisely why I stated am of the opinion that diet is personal choice for both dog and owner

Glad to hear Sinatra has tested negative for heartworm and that his allergies are better.

I do agree that diet is a personal choice and as long as it is suiting your dog then i see no reason to change ..by suiting i mean , good firm stools , great body / fur condition suffiecient energy and so on.

All i am going to add is that what a vet knows about diet i could write on the back of a stamp !

Lets have some facts on dog food that no vet will tell you .....Dog food persay wasnt really around until after the second world war so circa 1945.
What were dogs and cats fed on before then ?
Table scraps and raw bones that were readily available from butchers at a very low or none cost.
That speaks volumes to me in itself.
Having a problematic puppy that simply could not digest the additives in the dog food i had to look for alternatives.
And yes they do put a lot of additives in the pet food which is why it has the colours and flavours it does and the reason why it has a long shelf life.
In my search i also decided that the best course of action was for me to do a pet nutrition course to better understand not only her condition but why certain things were affecting her so badly and by far the worst food on any market anywhere in the world is pedigree.
As i dont feed kibble or pet foods i have let that side of the course go by the by as i have no need for it so im not up on what newer foods are out there or which is the best to feed now.
What i will is ..a lot of allergies can also be solved by a change of diet but there are some that require other methods.
For grass pollen allergies ( sneezes , earache and sore eyes ) then a simple human grade anti-histamine is a great tool for combatting this if you feel your diet is otherwise serving you well.

I feed barf and have done for 6 years..i have raised 6 litters on this diet and all are doing great.
Like Cath my dogs are healthy weights , great condition with beautiful fur clean teeth and none smelling breath , bright glossy eyes but most importantly have good energy levels without being hyperactive and they havnt had a tummy issue in years..even with a whelping mother i had no tummy problems.
Shadow would have been dead before her first birthday had i not switched her to barf so i am thankful for that.
I do agree that this diet can be fattenening if you dont know what to feed ( my diet is in the barf section to show the correct variation )

Heartworm is not something we have to deal with in the uk so the medication for that is beyond me.

All in all i would say to ditch that vet and try to find an holistic vet if possible.
Any vet that tries to push either pedigree or science plan is not worth his money in my honest opinion.

lol. So maybe I'm the only one who will find this funny.
But due to Sinatra’s sneezing we changed up his kibble. I was reading on: (www.dogfoodanalysis.com) that Iams contains beet pulp, which isn't the best because of the high sugar content, and a potential food allergy, hey lets do a little research try something else. 3 things that Iams had that was important to me was one the top ingredient was an actual meat (chicken,) the total “meat content” (which I define as Protein and Fat) was the AAFCO recommended 40% (26% Protein, 15% Fat) and the cost was less than a dollar per pound (40lbs bag sells for 30 bucks at Andersons.)
After a couple days of research, the First Kibble we wanted to try was California Natural Lamb and Rice. (1st is Lamb Meal, 21% Protein, 11% Fat, 10 dollars for a 10 lbs. bag) I wanted to do Herring and Sweet potatoes, but it was higher than a dollar per pound and the Lamb was not. It was sold just down the street and looked really basic, to see if the sneezing was caused by foodstuff, but low on meat content. We took a week to switch him over, and waited a couple of days. He loved the new food, but the sneezing continued, so let’s look into something else. (I know we needed to wait a lot longer to make a more accurate assessment, but I’m losing him tomorrow and wanted to send him off best I could.)

Next we researched and tried Canidae Chicken & Rice (1st Chicken Meal, 26% Protein, 15% Fat, 22$ for 15 lbs.) OK we exceeded my price mark, but Andersons has sells so I think we can get down where I want it. Took a week to switch him over, he didn’t tear into it like he did with the California Natural, but he was still eating it, and still sneezing.
Ugg what to do? Lets try the vets recommendation and wash him with Selson Blue. Sneezing has lowered big time. Woot!
Ok lets take another look into this food thing. First link: http://louisespetconnection.com/Ourfoods.html
And the First two products they recommend… Canidae and California Natural. Double woot! I choose wisely. Lol. And the Kibble I’m sending him off with is: Base food 1 cup twice a day of Canidae, with a little treats of California Natural. He loves to dig into the “treat” laden kibble, is getting the meat content I want, and with sells, at the price mark I want also. Good stuff. Now everyone wish me luck in finding our dream home at the right price so I can get my big fur ball back.

joe

I work for Ohio State and can prolly crash this seminar for free: "Small Animal CE Series: Feeding for Canine Growth" it's a 2 hour continung education course for Vets and Vet Techs to instruct them on canine nutrition. Interesting, the sposor for the class is Iams, Eukanuba, and Proctor and Gamble.

https://vetmedce.osu.edu/ceactivities/conferences/index.cfm?action=coursesview&eventID=38975

Anyone else think it's worth my 2 hours?
Joe

That's awesome. If I had the opportunity and had nothing better to do I'd go purely to see what they're teaching vets and vet techs.

Huskyluv wrote:

That's awesome. If I had the opportunity and had nothing better to do I'd go purely to see what they're teaching vets and vet techs.

Val I agree!

I'd be there in a second, if I could - but I'm not one who could keep my mouth shut, though! Would love for you to go and then report back to us! And so glad that you are researching for yourself! Way to go!

Yay, yay, and yay to everything I've read here! (Except boo to losing Sinatra )...

Totally agreed... personal choice and dog's preferences are really what drives a pet's diet. But I am SUPER glad you're doing your own research. That makes me very happy as well

Also- I would ABSOLUTELY sit in on that course. Yay for working at universities

For those who are really bored. I found a couple of pamphlets that made for good reading:

Safety of Dietary Supplements for Horses, Dogs, and Cats (2008)
http://dels.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/satety_of_dietary_supplements_final.pdf

Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats (2006)
http://dels.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/dog_nutrition_final.pdf

Acronym Alert:
BANR - Board on Agriculture and Natural Resources: The reporting arm of the NRC for Agriculture including Pets. http://dels.nas.edu/banr/index.shtml

NRC - National Research Council: Nonprofit institution that provides science, technology and health policy advice under a congressional charter signed by President Abraham Lincoln
http://sites.nationalacademies.org/NRC/index.htm

AAFCO - Association of American Feed Control Officials: These guys take the scientific reports released by BANR (issued through the NRC) and break it down into standardized practices for animal feeds including pet food. http://www.aafco.org/

The biggest thing of note I saw here is the claim that dogs are omnivores, not carnivores (like cats) this is evidenced by their grinding molars, and highly adaptive digestive system. Neat.