So I never thought I'd be posting here! Rediscussed raw with the boyfriend and he agreed to give it a go, so we've been feeding strictly raw for the last 3 days. He's been getting bone-in chicken thighs and has taken to them like a champ, bone and all. I do have a few concerns though:

He gobbles down the chicken like he hasn't eaten in a week. He did this with his kibble too; I was hoping transitioning to raw might slow him down but he still tries to eat it as fast as possible. We've been holding it for him until he gets used to this new way of eating (he has no concept of ripping or shredding the meat unless we do this, he will literally try to swallow it whole). He crunches on the bone and does chew it some, but definitely not completely. Tonight my boyfriend fed him and didn't hold it; I walked in the kitchen too late and Drogo had swallowed pretty much the entire thigh, bone and all. The bone in the thigh was small but I'm concerned regardless. Will he be able to pass the it?

I also bought a bone-in chicken breast which is substantially bigger than the thigh. I'm thinking maybe the thighs are just too small; maybe if he's given bigger pieces he'll be more inclined to rip, shred and not swallow things whole? His BM's have been pretty runny (they were also soft on the kibble but they had some form to them then). I've read that can be normal, so I'm not too worried about that.

I wanted this post to be completely positive and it would have been if tonight's mistake didn't happen. Any input from this lovely community would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Kimberly

That's great that you're trying raw for Drogo.

If his BMs are runny/soft form, then he's getting too much muscle meat and not enough bone. If his stool is too hard, then he's not getting enough muscle meat and too much bone.

Also, a raw diet will should include some organs to make it a complete and balanced meal. If you're not planning on giving him organs, you should supplement raw with a balanced dehydrated raw food, such at The Honest Kitchen, which is a versatle food that can balance out either a raw diet or a kibble diet. Keep in mind that because kibble and raw digest at different rates, we usually tend to steer away from feeding kibble and raw in the same meal. Some of us have on occasion without issue, but the preference is normally raw in a seperate meal from kibble. Other than THK, you can supplement raw chicken with bone with the pre-made raw that comes frozen. These come in a variety from being all raw (meat, bone and organ) or meat, organ, bone and fruits and veggies.

My 2 will take less than 2 minutes to eat a chicken thigh. I've posted a few videos of Ginger and Storm eating their raw dinner which is chicken. Storm gets 6 oz and Ginger gets 4-4.5 oz at dinner. And they will chomp on it pretty quick.

If you're still concerned, holding it for Drogo is good. I still monitor my 2 when they eat their dinner just to make sure they don't choke. I swear sometimes they will poop a chicken bone! It may only take a few chomps on the bone before they swallow but Drogo will be able to pass it OK.

Claudia covered most everything already. I'd also say to stick with one thing for the first few weeks. My boy can down chicken parts pretty fast too. Their bodies are built for digesting bone so I wouldn't be too concerned. I would continue to hold it if you don't feel comfortable with the speed that he's eating. He really should be chewing the bone rather than swallowing it though. My boy swallowed a big chunk of pork rib last week and he passed it just fine, no issues whatsoever. Diarrhea and loose stool is normal when switching to a raw diet so I wouldn't be too concerned there, extra bone and less skin might help firming up the stool some also. Chicken backs have a nice higher bone to meat ratio. Organs are essential to a balanced PMR diet but you won't have to start incorporating organs until at least several weeks/a month into raw feeding.

Yea, I read the raw guide on this forum and it went over things like sticking to one protein source for awhile and adding organs and such later on. I've been doing research on raw diets for a long time, months and months before I even aquired Drogo. I plan to do it 100%!

I have read a few people mention the supplement Nupro; looked it up and it seemed like a good thing. I would like to get it if it would be of some benefit to him. I just know over supplementing can be a bad thing, if he's getting enough from the raw I wouldn't want to overdue it.

Will keep everyone updated on how he continues to do. I've taken a bunch of pictures over the last few days of him eating raw; I might post them in the picture thread! He truly seems so happy eating as nature intended. I'm glad my boyfriend agreed to do this with me!

I supplement Nupro Silver to support joints as it contains glucosamine mainly because when we adopted him, he was very overweight and I wanted to make sure his joints were supported adequately. When we first got him, he seemed tentative in his hips/hind legs. We tried Myristin first, which is what we have our female on, but he did not like it and would eat around it almost every way we tried to give it to him. Since he was wasting the Myristin, we tried Nupro since a few others here use it. And my boy LOVES his Nupro! I tried to switch my female from Myristin to Nupro, but she doesn't care for it. So we use both. We got our female on glucosamine because she would have a big limp the day after she ran around the park for a couple of hours. Now, both my 2 show no signs of limping or tentativeness in joints.

Nupro is a great supplement, I use Nupro Silver with Joint Support for my dogs. I never used to supplement until I started taking my dogs to a holistic vet who recommended supplementing regardless of how good a diet you are feeding (including raw) with either Nupro, Missing Link, or The Wholistic Pet. The way she puts it is that it fills in the gaps on nutrients that they might be missing in their diet and gives you that extra assurance, think of it like people who take a multivitamin every day. She just recently told me about The Wholistic Pet supplements last week and they look pretty good. I prefer Nupro over Missing Link, but I might now start rotating my pack between Nupro and The Wholistic Pet supplements.

Just wanted to give an update on Drogo! Still eating raw and loving it. His BM's are firm and TINY! Just wow. We stopped giving thighs and moved to breasts and chicken quarters since he can't inhale them in 30 seconds. He's been eating raw for about 2 weeks now; should I hold off another week before introducing him to organs?

Thanks for the advice about Nupro. I'm about to order some now, just not sure what size container I should get. Do you follow the daily feeding instructions even when feeding raw? As it stands now, I'd be giving him around 5 scoops a day. o_O Just seems like a lot.

Will update some pictures in the raw feeding thread of Drogo chowing down. ^____^

If his BMs are consistent now you can ease into organs. Some dogs can take to it very easily and others have nasty diarrhea initially. Start off with small amounts. The quarters usually will have a bit of organ meat on them so it won't be totally new. You can also start experimenting with different meats such as pork or beef. I feed mostly chicken and pork.

As for Nupro, i'm not much help in that area, Val is though. I'm sure she'll see this.

If you get a small container of nupro you give more scoops because it comes with a VERY small scooper intended for smaller dogs. The larger containers have the larger scooper. It's all the same just different sizing. I initially bought a small container when I started just to make sure he would take it. Frankie LOVES it and we went through that one very quickly.

Most people wait until the one month mark before introducing organs. However it is entirely up to you if don't want to wait. Like Kristina mentioned, ease into it with small amounts.

As for Nupro, I do not give the recommended amounts on the label. I give far less as I do find it a bit much. My sibe gets less than half a scoop of Nupro daily, that's just my personal thing since too much Nupro in his food will give him the runs or soft stool. Remember, it's just a supplement so you can always give less than the product label recommends.

Those of you who supplement Nupro, do you also give something for skin and coat, like salmon oil for example, or is the flaxseed enough? I thought I remember reading somewhere that dogs don't absorb flaxseed like fish oil, but I could be thinking of something else.

http://www.naturalk9supplies.com/Dog-Supplements/nupro-joint-support.aspx has Nupro on sale + code max15 gets you 15% off. Just incase you didn't order any yet, ends tonight!

toyszruskid wrote:

I thought I remember reading somewhere that dogs don't absorb flaxseed like fish oil, but I could be thinking of something else.

Flax seed oil is richer in Omega-3s, but it's in the inactive form (ALA.) ALA must converted into EPA and DHA before it is readily available for the dog. Fish oil is rich in EPA and DHA which is ready to use.

I buy regular human grade fish oil tablets. Sometimes they get the pills punctured and poured on the food, but if i'm making their dinner I just throw them in since i'm highly allergic to fish. Either way, they take it fine.

Kimberly, you really should not need to supplement something extra for skin and coat if you are feeding a raw diet and Nupro supplement.

I will say though that I do supplement extra virgin coconut oil for skin and coat for my dogs once a week.

A lot of people will recommend fish oil and it is a good supplement, however be aware that there are downsides to it as with anything. I personally would recommend extra virgin coconut oil or flaxseed oil over fish oil. Fish oil may have omega 3's more readily available however with fish oil there is the risk of mercury, PCBs, and other toxins that wild fish cannot avoid in their natural habitat. Maybe the level of toxins is low however if given every day over years and years it can build up to unhealthy levels.

I did a lot of research on supplemental oils when deciding what to use for my dogs as well as when I formulated a cancer starving diet for a family member whose dog has cancer. I did a lot of reading up on flaxseed versus fish oils. I recommended flaxseed oil as part of the cancer starving diet since it can help prevent tumors when combined with cottage cheese.

I'd never discourage the use of fish oils and have no qualms with those that recommend it or use it themselves. I just have done a lot of research on fish oil, extra virgin coconut oil, and extra virgin flaxseed oil and I personally would recommend either coconut or flaxseed oil over fish oil. That's just my two cents.

where have you guys found the best deal with shipping included for Nupro?

Last time I ordered Nupro was fall 2010 and I got the 5 lb jar from Entirely Pets I think. Shop around though, prices fluctuate all the time and coupon codes change around too. I think Jenn once got a really good price when it was on sale directly at the company website. Definitely shop around.

I'm going to order some extra virgin coconut oil too, thanks for the info! And Entirely Pets has free shipping with coupon code NUTRASPRING. Cheapest I've found so far!

thankyou

So I finally received my Nupro and Coconut Oil so I'm about to try both of them in a minute. I'm having a REALLY hard time finding the 5% secreting organ that I need for my raw diet. I called 2 local butchers and neither of them have organs? o_O I've never heard of such a thing before. I don't know what to do. ;_;

As for the liver, they sell both the frozen kind (in a little plastic cup) and refrigerated livers wrapped in plastic like all the other meats they sell. The latter seemed like a fresher option, so I got those. Not sure if that was correct or not. I assume you just pull what you need for a couple of days and freeze the rest?

He's been eating chicken exclusively but I figured I could start slowly introducing another protein source into his diet. I found some boston butt roast (pork) on-sale for $1.80/lb (originally $3.23/lb) so I decided to pick that up as well since it was a good deal. I could cut off a small piece (and maybe a piece of liver too) and feed both to him as he eats his usual chicken quarter and see how that works. Unless someone has another suggestion that might work better?

I do have a question about chicken quarters. They have a lot of bone in them, especially in comparison to their meat muscle content. I think he's getting more than 10% bone. If his BM's aren't too firm, should I worry much if he's consuming more than 10%? I also picked up some gizzards since they count as a muscle meat - maybe I can add that in down the line to even out the % of muscle to bone if it's a problem? Right now he's getting around 1.2 lbs per day (he weighs 26 lbs). His weight seems to be maintaining nicely.

the 80/10/10 is kind of a guideline...you really just pay attention to their poos and if they are looking how they should i think you're just fine. you'll DEFINITELY know if there is too much bone in the diet and likewise if there is not enough

As Shannon mentioned, the percentages are a guideline to work off of. Each dog is different and will require different amounts of bone in their diets. You really have to just pay attention to your dog and adjust amounts accordingly. With bone it is really easy to tell if they're getting too much or too little. Too little bone results in soft stool and too much bone results in constipation and/or difficulty defecating. If his stools are not too firm or too soft then I wouldn't be concerned about a slightly higher bone ratio.

When I buy any meat or organ I split it up into smaller portions and freeze it in multiple smaller containers. This way I just pull out whatever small amount I need when I'm ready for it.

You generally want to split up the 10% organ into 5% liver and the other 5% a secreting organ such as the kidney. Some people feed organ as a meal unto itself once a week, others prefer to just mix smaller amounts with several other raw meals throughout the week. Either option is fine so long as you get organ into their diet on a regular basis (weekly). I'm one who likes to mix organ in with muscle meat and bone. My dogs eat it just fine but I'll admit I've never tried feeding them a meal of just organ so I couldn't tell you how that would go.

Thanks Shannon and Val. I might back off just a small bit on the bone. His stool normally looks fine though today it felt harder than usual (and it looked like he was straining some). Maybe I'll try removing the muscle meat from the quarter and just give him that every other day instead of an entire quarter each day.

I'm not sure what to do about the secreting organ since the butchers around here are weird and don't carry any. Maybe I can order that kind of stuff online? Not having much luck so far - just finding websites that sell livers, hearts, necks and gizzards. ;__;

On a side-note, he LOVED the Nupro AND coconut oil! Yay!

toyszruskid wrote:

Maybe I can order that kind of stuff online?

Check out Hare-Today, they have a LOT of excellent stuff you can order online. You can also get some novel proteins from there as well that you might not otherwise have readily available to you locally.

Here's their website: http://www.hare-today.com/

Thanks Val! I will definitely use that website if it's my only option. I found a butcher in Aiken, SC that I'm hoping will carry organs. *fingers crossed*

So I've FINALLY found a butcher willing to cut me some deals on chicken quarters and backs. Like 65-72 cents a pound (opposed to the $1.19 I have been paying >___<) I was so thrilled today that I bought 45 pounds of quarters without taking into consideration how much space it would take up in my freezer. It all fits, but now there's not much room for our food. XD So I'm off to buy a chest freezer later today.

Anyways, I have a question about the safety of partially unthawing chicken then refreezing it. Is there any danger in doing that? My boyfriend swears it's not safe, so I figured I'd ask here. Unless we portion and skin all that meat tonight (organs included), we will have to unthaw chicken at a later date in order to pull from the bags and portion daily feedings into small bags (like we normally do). I only had ginormous freezer bags at the house, so there are at least 7 quarters per bag (and around 10 bags T____T).