So, Soshanna is now an adult. Shes checked out healthy, and is going to be bred. Her littermate, Blewett also checks out, and is ready to breed. He is gorgeous, and both have wonderful temperments.

Originally, my plan was to breed to a Kelpie. As time has passed, though, Ibevfound the dingo concentration is nice, and that I would ideally rather let Blewett stud the litter.

So, my question is, in a situation where we arent dealing with linebred/inbred pedigrees, and we've got a mixed breed, is it going to hurt to breed the two best siblings too each other? I dont know much about breeding, and I know a few members on here are genetics masters

Thanks!

Inbreeding puts dogs at risk to birth defects, genetically inherited health problems, and they're predisposed to many other physical/behavioral issues. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me at all.

No responsible breeder would ever intentionally breed litter siblings or even separated full siblings. You're risking doubling up on a lot of the same flaws, the best of the litter or not. This is not the same theory that goes behind breeding a father back to a daughter or son to dam when you are stamping your line and/or proving eye health.

AKC honers it, but..... they say to only do it if you are an experienced breeder. it being your first time I would say no till you know what is best. OFA certifications are highly needed for this! and doing it every year! and years of mentoring to make sure your dog and the other persons dog doesn't have health problems. Now, she maybe fine... but 5 years from now? Who knows. I would stay away from it and find a different male. There are tons of studs for huskies.

Okay, I know a lot of you are too new to know me.
Worked in Alaska with Malamutes and Mckenzies that worked as bear dogs for the plant workers in NakNek.
Came home, got certified to train at a training academy, by a behavioralist, who breeds champion IWS
Worked a few kennels. Made close friends with a great vet.
Now am supervisor at a pet care facility. Train handlers, dogs, etc.

Now for Soshanna.

Soshanna isnt a Husky, nor would she be bred to one.
She has a papered Colby Pitbull for a dad, and a Dingo for a mom.
Shes OFA certified. Her fathers side health and temp is good way back
Her mom is perfectly healthy at 6, but no prior papers. 10 puppies in her litter so far have no issues except for one being timid.

This isnt a standard breeding of an already messy purebred. Which is why I wanted the advice of one of the people on here who have very advanced knowledge of genetics. I know enough to breed a couple AKC papered dogs with each other.

Personally, I would avoid breeding the siblings together. Doing so could still bring about hidden health issues even though they aren't "messy purebreds".  You should also still do proper health test on the dogs to keep records of what could be carried over to the next generation, and maintain testing if you plan to ever breed any keepers.  I'm hoping that your plans for breeding involves a desire to fulfill a job and not just to make more pets, there are plenty of mixed breeds and pits out there that could use a good home.

Either way, you're better off breeding to a parent or breed representative that better suits what you are looking to see in the litter.  If you're looking to start your own breed or line, your best bet is to maintain as much diversity as possible and not limiting the gene pool with sibling breedings.

Nope, just a one time breeding. No lines. No kennels. Not for the pet market. Not even for sale. Enough trainers want a puppy from Soshanna, and have happily waited to see if she was able. Like I said, she is originally lined up for a Kelpie. Dingo/Kelpie/Pitbulls arent really house pets for anyone but active trainers.

Heres another interesting argument. In EVERYTHING, from dogs to livestock, breeders can and do inbreed. They do it to pass on favorable traits that would otherwise ber lost or diminished from the stock. So, there is support to both sides, especially since I am dealing with a pretty rare to find mix, that comes with unique traits worth preserving.

I asked for the genetics experts, because I didnt really need basic info.

You guys have basically prompted me to ignore you all and just go do what I should have done in the first place. Speak to my colleagues rather than the internet. No need for this thread to continue, as I am no longer reading it

No need to get defensive or rude, everyone here was just trying to help as best they can. Just because you do not agree with or like what is said, does not make it any less valuable information.

Without really looking at the pedigree of both parents, there's no way in telling if a sibling pairing would be good or not. Just because the parents are different breeds, any linebreeding done in their lines does not fully get negated just by breeding to a different breed. With a COI of 25% (which a sibling pairing is), sure you could produce a "photocopy" of the parents with all of their good features, but then again you could also risk pups who have all of the bad features as well.

But being that you are choosing to ignore the advice given, it may not be worth going more in depth in the subject. Sounds like you'll do what you want, even if others don't agree. Good luck with the pups, hopefully they turn out the way that you wanted them to be.

I was talking to someone who was raised around livestock and the breeding practices that farmers used and she said they would/can do things like father/daughter breedings (but ONLY 2 generations out) but they never did brother/sister breedings.  It was just a no no.

I was reading a post somewhere the other day about someone getting a GSD pup from a brother/sister (accidental) breeding and the dog just wasn't "right".

Obv. you're going to do what you're going to do.  The pairing would not only double up on the good traits but also the bad and any potential problems would be exacerbated.  Just depends on what you and the other trainers are going to do and what risks you're willing to take, I guess.

Pardon me for not having the credentials you're seeking, but I don't think it takes a geneticist to know a brother and sister should not be paired. Purebred, mixed breed, or the muttiest of mutts. It is not good for the health of the pups. You yourself said you don't know much about breeding; therefore, I don't think you have any business doing so.

There is absolutely no guarantee that they will both pass on the combination traits you desire to the pups. While that's true with any breeding, it's even MORE true with mixed breeds, because they are heterozygous for most of their traits. In short, they likely won't "breed true", and there is a strong likelihood that you will be disappointed in the results.
If you are truly intent on breeding your girl, you should find a stud that most exemplifies ALL of what you want in the pups AND has proven it with prior litters.
In short, I am echoing what the previous posters have said: not a good idea. "Credentials" or not, they are spot on, and I suspect you may be upset because they aren't telling you what you want to hear.

ps: Not sure if this is credentials enough for you, but I do have a masters degree in genetics as well as a PhD and teach at a university.

Okay, see, thats one of the people I was waiting for.
So, in two littermates with unrelated parents my COI will be 50%,
And I understand that. I realize that in long lineage, of purebreds, where there is a limited genetic pool to begin with, it can really effect the uniformity of traits. I also understand, from a number of people, that, in the case of littermates from unrelated parents, no extraordinary change would likely occur. Basically, that is isnt all that dangerous.

Obviously I am taking a long time to get information before I decide. She is 6 months or more from even breeding it.
Obviously I have an unrelated Kelpie dingo sire on the ready, because no, im not going to be heartbroken if I have to breed my dingo with a different dingo mix.

Youd have to know these dogs. I dont just make weird choices. Theyre going into jobs where both littermates excel.

Eric - has Soshanna's parents ever been bred before her litter?

If only once to each other - there is unfortunately no track record that states "this breeding will produce as good, if not better than previously". There is a HUGE unknown.

IMO - it's not something I would do and as was stated there is a much bigger area where you'll be unhappy with the results rather than pleased because of the unknowns. Also coupled with the fact that this mix is obviously going to be far too driven and active for the average person if the dogs don't turn out like in Soshannas litter - you are left with a very limited type of person that would be able to deal with them - especially if she has a large litter.

Ceara
Soshanna's dad, Bones studded healthy UKC APBTs with two bitches before Soshanna's litter.
Soshanna's mom, Kahlua had a litter with a Kelpie, who are working herders before Soshanna's litter.
In fact, the same Kelpie is who might breed with Soshanna if not Blewett.

We are very aware of the drive of these dogs. Its a pretty close group of us who keep these puppies. It is us who wanted them after all. For instance, of Soshanna's 10, Bones' owner took 3, kahluas owner took 3, and the other 4 went to our close friends who train or raise livestock etc.

In fact, Bones owner, Kahluas owner, Blewetts owner, two trainers from AOCB, and my old manager at my current work are all already signed on to raise Soshannas offspring. Just like I want on of hers and one of Blewetts, unless they breed together.

I don't have a lot of experience, but genetics is one of my favorite subjects. I would think it may be better to breed Blewett back to his mother to get the more desired results. I'm not sure that you would get what you want from the two siblings breeding. As for Soshana, its the dingo that you want more of right? Then maybe going with the kelpie mix would be better for her. Just my two cents.

If you have the kelpie as an option I would take that.  That's just me.  I'm just not sold on the benefit of a brother/sister breeding especially when there is another option available.

If you lose the kelpie for a potential stud and you cannot find another dog of such great quality/potential you are looking for - only then I would I heavily consider breeding Soshanna to Blewett as virtually a last resort.  again - it's just my opinion.

I do wish you luck in whatever you decide to do!  I'm a sucker for the all around actual working dog.  I hope you'll post pictures.

I dont even understand why he still posts. All he does is post controversal topics and once someone gives their opinion, he flips out on them. Just let him do what wants. Most likely he is going to take the most knowledgeable persons suggestion with a grain of salt.

He posts because he can. This is an honest question about breeding and I, for one, have enjoyed reading about it, controversial or not. Just because people don't agree with each other doesn't mean they can't contribute to the forum.

Hey, we can all be a bit short on the Internet..I can appreciate a good, heated debate..but there's no reason to post if it's not contributing to the thread at all, just to insult another member.  Nothing personal  

I don't believe he "flipped out" on anyone. That is just how Eric "talks" (interwebs lul). This is the first I've even seen him post in months (granted I'm not on/around as much as I used to be so I could be wrong).

Ditto ^ And he has indeed very recently resurfaced from secrecy.

Like me he has directness and a bit of a diplomacy deficiency

Besides, he didn't ask for opinions about whether the breeding was a good idea from a common sense, moral point of view. His question was technical, thus "should" and "ought" weren't relevant opinions.

It was akin to somebody asking about kibble feeding amounts and technical information about what to expect from kibble, and then the responses being "well you should be feeding raw because it's better than kibble."

Kinda misses the whole point really. The fact that some of us know Eric and know his experience and his particularly acute expertise in dog stuff just makes it all that much more amusing.

IMO, linebreeding can be a good thing and bring genes forward that a breeder really wants and needs in their lines. However, I think it should only be done by people who have been working on their own lines for multiple generations and for a specific purpose.

I don't think a brother-sister breeding is ever a good idea. Grandparent? sure, if there is a legitimate reason for it.

I think inbreeding like this could be a very bad thing for the puppies.

Thanks guys,
It is the first post in months, and yes it is controversial.
That may be why I decided to seek many avenues of advice.
There are a lot of factors in the decision. Blewett and Kahlua would have too high of a dingo concentration.
Lets also not forget I have a husky who has an overbite from inbreeding, but has otherwise become a wonderful dog. Im not totally sold that a single round of sibling mating would ruin the genes.
I know a couple of you know the complicated science of genetics better. Im open to reading studies done on the issue etc.

Also, since when was controversial bad?
One of my other controversial topics helped me make a decision that has ultimately improved a small old dogs life.

Out of curiosity, where does it stop? What if the litter results in a bunch of beautiful pups just like the siblings? That is the best case scenario, so then what happens?

Nice to see you back, Eric .

In the end, as long as it is an informed, well thought out decision, do what you think is the right thing.