"I asked for the genetics experts, because I didnt really need basic info.

You guys have basically prompted me to ignore you all and just go do what I should have done in the first place. Speak to my colleagues rather than the internet. No need for this thread to continue, as I am no longer reading it"

Im sorry how is this a productive post when somekne talks like that.. That was a response to someones answers of his questions. But ya im the ass and im gonna get more neg treats and probably get a PM for a admin.

I can assure you that no one here has called you or thinks you an ass, Eric (well, this could get confusing). I'm not really sure who gave you a negative thing or why. (remember folks the good/bad advice is not like the "likes" on facebook).

Some deductive reasoning shows me that I gave him 1 negative treat accidentally because I was on my phone in the car, so if somebody wants to plus him 1 that'd be great.

Sorry mate.

seattlesibe wrote:

Some deductive reasoning shows me that I gave him 1 negative treat accidentally because I was on my phone in the car, so if somebody wants to plus him 1 that'd be great.  

Sorry mate.  

That's some strong deductive reasoning...you should be a detective or something!

Eric (Koda's Eric), you don't have to like people. At first, I didn't like seattlesibe. The way he posted and worded his sentences did not flow with my personality. After we butted heads for quiet awhile (at least I thought we were), we get along now and I am head over heels in love with Link and want to steal him. I also had just bought a harness from him and it was in tip top shape!

You do not have to like everyone, and you do not have to agree with everyone's personalities. But, it's best to just keep those thoughts to yourself. Posting things like "Why does he even post" (or whatever) just causes drama and it's not necessary. You don't have to like Eric, and you don't even have to tolerate him. But, like I said, keep it to yourself.

When I first joined, I surfed through all of the old threads, and I was like, "Holy crap! Who is this asshole!?". Now, Eric (K9) and I are pretty good friends (for the internet lol). How I talk in the forum is WAY different then I talk in a PM on here and on FB. I think it is very safe to say it's the same for K9 Eric.

You are not an ass, Eric (Koda). Just made an assish comment LOL.

I am not trying to be mean , remember that.

Niraya wrote:

seattlesibe wrote:

Some deductive reasoning shows me that I gave him 1 negative treat accidentally because I was on my phone in the car, so if somebody wants to plus him 1 that'd be great.  

Sorry mate.  

That's some strong deductive reasoning...you should be a detective or something!

 

haha, but it's true. I scrolled up to see the comment in question and noticed the good/bad buttons were gone...so I voted. See!

Now back to inbreeding.

techigirl78 wrote:

Out of curiosity, where does it stop?  What if the litter results in a bunch of beautiful pups just like the siblings?  That is the best case scenario, so then what happens?

I think thats an important question. The plan has always been to require the puppies to be fixed, and not bred, in the ownership contract. Soshanna will be spayed after shes had her puppies. Nobody who wants one has pitched a fit.
Again, these puppies will stay within a pretty tight group of people. Soshanna sees her siblings a lot. Alec and I are the only two that werent required to fix our dogs.

I think this is a really interesting topic and no matter which sire you pick, I hope you'll post about the litter. To add to the questions, what is the purpose for the litter? What types of work do you envision them doing, is it mostly herding, or other things as well? Also, when you say dingo, do you mean a 'wild' dingo, imported from Australia? From what I remember in your previous posts, you're an experienced trainer, so I'm asking this out of genuine curiosity, but have you seen any issues pop up similar to those seen in wolf hybrids? I'm sorry if that's an off topic question, but I'm curious about what you have found. Also, in terms of the timid littermate, what is your feeling on the cause of the timidity? Do you feel its a result of environment/experiences as the puppy was raised, or do you think it has a genetic component, and does that relate to the dingo side?

For the geneticists out there, is there an increased chance of mutation with sibling crosses, or is it more the issue of homozygosity and potentially bad, or unhealthy recessive traits surfacing? Also, what would you expect the range of variation to be in the puppies, meaning, would some of the puppies show traits more similar to Soshanna's dam, and some her sire? Or would you expect a more general 'mix' of genes so the puppies show traits similar to Soshanna and Blewett?

To answer the questions directed at me..

The dogs will mostly be prone toward agility and search and rescue work,
Which has been the primary focus with Soshanna and Blewett. They like to herd, and will make good working herders, but havent done any serious competing. Its hard to explain, I guess. Most of us out here have acres of land and livestock, and although we train dogs professionally, none of us want to compete with our dogs. So we run them on the agility courses, and train them for water rescue and let them corral sheep to their hearts content, for no specific purpose other than to fulfill their needs. At best they become working herders or SAR dogs. At worst, they live thinking they are.

As for the Dingo question. Yes. Soshannas mother was brought here illegally as a heeler mix. She was born captive to a semi-domestic dingo breeder. Because Australians can have dingoes, they arent actually as wild as wolf hybrids. The truth is that ive only really notoced positoves. For instance, dingoes dont bark, they have different vocalizations , so it took a long time around barking dogs before Soshanna figured out how to bark, and she still doesnt really bark about anything. Also, shes so much better at solving problems than the other dogs at the house. Basically nothing is off-limits to her, unless I tell her it is.

wpskier222 wrote:

For the geneticists out there, is there an increased chance of mutation with sibling crosses, or is it more the issue of homozygosity and potentially bad, or unhealthy recessive traits surfacing? Also, what would you expect the range of variation to be in the puppies, meaning, would some of the puppies show traits more similar to Soshanna's dam, and some her sire? Or would you expect a more general 'mix' of genes so the puppies show traits similar to Soshanna and Blewett?

No, it doesn't increase the chances of mutation - only the chance of recessive traits coming up. There will likely be some like their dam, some like their sire, and some that are combinations of the two (but not necessarily combinations that wind up like Soshanna). Basically, it's a mixed bag.

As far as the timid sibling, he was a bit more shy from the start. He was a little picked on as the puppies established their hierarchy, and that didnt help. He was also fixed a bit earlier than the others. Dingos are known to be timid and flighty, though Kahlua (the dingo) isnt shy as much as just very independent. I'd say its as much genetics as environment on that one, though all the others are social butterflies.

Thank you both for answering my questions. No matter what you decide (no judgement either way, because I have zero experience breeding) I wish you the best and I'll be interested to see how the litter comes out. It would be interesting to see a genetic study/comparison for the 3 generations. I hope this doesn't count as a hijack.