What's the minimum number of protein sources you need for a raw diet to keep it balanced?

(I bought a deep freeze freezer that might have some room to start a raw diet for Snoop... I'm reviewing research  )

How much do you guys pay per month for your dogs? I'm still looking for distributors that are affordable for me.

I don't know that there's an exact number of protein sources you need. Just keep the variety going as much as you can. At different times, you may be able to find one meat easier than another or one might be way on sale while one has skyrocketed in price. So don't set a weekly menu that you'll keep forever, because you won't. I think more importantly than a minimum of protein sources is the organs. My girl has been on raw since April and has eaten liver about 3 times. I'm honestly starting to worry but there's not alot I can do. At first she wouldn't eat liver at all. Now she eats it fine but she's been having issues on and off for a couple of months so we've had to start over alot. I actually found a source yesterday though for organs from free range, grass fed, abx free cows, chickens, pigs, and goats. So I'm pretty excited about that.

I know you said you're researching but just to help with that some-
When you start out, definitely go slow. The variety is something that's reached over time. Alot of people try to have variety on the first meal by giving beef hearts, chicken quarters, eggs, and liver all in one meal. That's explosive diarrhea (aka cannon butt) just waiting to happen. Stick to one cut of chicken for a few days, if they do well then give a different cut of chicken for a few more days. Only after poops are normal (solid, firm, and formed) should you SLOWLY add in another protein. If you choose beef, put 1/4 beef to 3/4 chicken. If you feed one meal a day, obviously give it all at once. If you feed two give one meal chicken, then one meal 1/2 chicken 1/2 beef. Do that for a few days and make sure all is well and no stomach upset and just gradually increase.

Another mistake people make when first starting out (I did) is feeding too much. Feeding too much causes cannon butt also. I was feeding too much trying to get weight on my girl cause she's 20 lbs underweight but it was just running right through her. So take your dog's ideal adult weight, not their current weight (unless it's ideal), and feed 2%-3% of that. I would start off at 2% and then increase if need be.
Also, bones are important. If you do have loose stools add more bone. I give split breasts, thighs, and quarters (all chicken) as my bone. You may have to do more bone at the beginning.
The main thing is to just add new things slowly, and listen to your dog. They'll tell you if something needs to be adjusted

Chicken seems to be the most affordable meat source. The best price I've seen is at SAM's club, for anywhere from .99/lb to 1.89/lb. depending on the cut. Beef hearts are the most affordable cut of beef, because if you don't get ground beef the only other option pretty much is steak at $7-$18/lb- no thanks. Hearts count as meaty meat, not organs. Usually you can find hearts for .99/lb-1.99/lb. Even at 2.99/lb, there's no beef you'll get for cheaper than that. Pork is also a very affordable meat source, usually less than $2/lb. I actually haven't ever really calculated how much it cost me a month (again, we've had so many issues it wouldn't be correct anyway) but I know several people on here that feed their dogs for $20 a month, per dog.

Hope that helped!

Are you a member of any coops?

http://www.dogaware.com/diet/rawgroups.html

Thanks Heather and Megan! I always appreciate your help  Especially all that info Heather!

$20 a month would be fantastic. At $40 a bag with the two dogs, that would be about the same price once I move out. My boyfriend has a Sam's Club membership but that's all I have as far as co-op stuff. I will also have to contact my grandmother because if there is every anything anybody needs then she either has it or knows how to get it haha I joined the raw feeding group on yahoo and everyone is so nice and I'm getting some great resource advice!

Snoopy has had a few raw foods, obviously not whole meals but he gets meat trimmings (beef and chicken, I'm leery of raw pork) on the occasion someone makes meat. Plus all the dead things my brother's cat hides around the yard, and any baby bird that falls out of its nest around the brewery. And part of a dead seagull he snatched while on a beach >.> Luckily he's never had diarrhea but I'm always prepared to deworm him.

EDIT: I know this is ground so it won't do anything teeth cleaning wise, but holy cow they have nice prices! No shipping though... http://kayninefoods.com/index.html

Looks like you need to get a freezer and take monthly or bi-monthly trips. There is also Medford meats out by you.

mbarnard0429 wrote:

http://www.dogaware.com/diet/rawgroups.html

Wow, thanks for the great link!

I'm hoping so  

When I google "Medford Meat WI" I get an Armbrust Meats in Medford, WI. Is that the same thing?  

I'm still waiting on the WI Raw Feeders group to accept me! But from what I've found so far I will probably be able to switch Snoopy to raw hopefully in October!

I think the ideal is to have at least 3 proteins once they get used to them. I order through a co op and get green tripe for $1.40/lb beef heart for 1.60/lb and steer liver for $1.65/lb I order in 50lb cases so once I put that money up it last a few months lol the only thing I buy from grocery stores is chicken right now and I get kidneys from a local butcher/farm

I think it is.


I don't usually spend more then 30-40/month and that's for two dogs and include duck, turkey, beef, chicken, fish, rabbit, quail and venison.

Nice! That many different animals?

I have a good reliable source for the balanced ground diet, for about the same price as the kibble only better than kibble because it's not kibble, and everybody is helping me find great places for RMB and whole piece. You guys are so great, I really appreciate your help!

What's better, chicken backs or chicken frames/carcasses?

I found a supplier three hours from me near the border of WI and IL that has a lot of different items. She has:
beef liver $.50/#
bison liver $1.00/#
chicken backs 40# case $12.00
chicken frames/carcasses 40# case $10.00
chicken necks w/ skin 40# case $15.00
chicken hearts 10# case $5 or 40# case $20
^ same for gizzards and her organic chicken liver
duck frames/carcasses 30# $7.50
Are these good prices? They seem decent to me but I have no clue when it comes to buying meat. She also has a plethora of other ground and pre-made foods and treats

Wow. Those are great prices! Can you buy some and ship it to me in nyc?

I'm actually emailing her to see if there is any way for her to ship to me. She doesn't have a website but I'll let you know if she ships/how far :3

She doesn't ship, but she's willing to meet me in Sheboygan, which will be perfect! Since when I pick up my Kaynine Foods I'm also picking up my friend's and she's paying me to drive it to her, in Sheboygan! A day of driving for six hours, whoo! haha

Are frames/carcasses just more difficult to portion than back? I was thinking about ordering a case of her duck frames/carcasses with chicken backs to get variety, but was wondering about the hassle. Should I get necks too, or should I just get my meats with bone-in from walmart? SO many choices!

EDIT: I called my grandma and after a brief conversation about how feeding raw does NOT (she told me a story about her friend that had a dog that started killing his calves) make you're dog aggressive, she's having me call the butcher she goes to to see if they'll save organs for me. And next cow they butcher she's saving the organs for me  I knew she was butching soon so I asked if she could but I'm a week to late lol

That's another thing, should I resolve Snoopy's resource guarding before I switch him? He's fine with me and he's made a lot of progress since I've been able to work with him all week, but I'm not so sure about other people yet.

neck tend to have a lot of bone I steer away from them because I don't want a chance of London choking, also make try to get hormone free grass fed organs they make a difference
http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/the-tale-of-two-calves-one-calf-got-raw-milk-the-other-pasteurized/
frames and carcasses already have the correct bone to meat ratio you just throw it down and let them go to town. Chicken back are nice since they have a softer bone content for beginners plus it's easier for me to cut up and keep track of the bone ratio

I worked on guarding when I first got London I would cut up the chicken and hand feed it to her. Then I would hold on to some while she was eating out of her bowl and switch up by giving her a piece of chicken breast and taking the bowl.

Thanks for clearing the chicken pieces up and if I can get my hands on affordable organs I definitely will. The woman I'm buying from has organic chicken liver that I'll be buying but I'm still looking for a place for kidneys and other organs.

Caitlin, Kaynine Foods looks amazing! I wish I was closer.

If you're looking to add some variety and dont mind feeding ground meat on occasion you might want to check with your local restaurant meat supplier and ask for shavings. I went to International Meat Company today and bought 14lb for $7! Its mostly bone and marrow with some meat and fat. Its a good to feed with muscle meat. Someone on a PMD facebook group suggested freezing chunks of it and feeding it frozen to provide stimulation.

Its looks like pale ground beef:

Nice find! I'm finding a lot of local places that have potential, I haven't called anybody yet though. Mostly been talking to the suppliers I already plan on purchasing from. I'm going to be buying at least one 30# slab from Kaynine foods and then portioning it off into patties as it slowly thaws in the fridge and freeze them in patties to feed him. He loves ice and popsicles so he'll love meaty frozen treats  

Do chicken backs have enough meat on them to be a meal on their own, or are they to boney?

dahowlers wrote:

Do chicken backs have enough meat on them to be a meal on their own, or are they to boney?

You can feed a chicken back as a meal, but make sure the next meal is meatier. Chicken backs are 50% bone, so you need to balance the day out buy feeding about 10% bone or less for the rest of the day.

I feed them as a whole meal with some of the fat pulled off with some pumpkin. I try to make the next meal more muscle meat or Anya will get constipated

Hmm... Alright. Since I'm also getting hearts I can feed that with it, or some of the ground once his system can handle more than one source. Thanks for your help!

Hypothetically, if I were to feed whole mice, I would just have to weigh them out to what he needs, right?