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| Biting/attacking me on walks!! | |
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Author | Message |
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NewComer Puppy
Join date : 2013-06-10 Location : California
| Subject: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:11 pm | |
| I wasn't sure whether to add this to the puppy biting sticky, since the biting happens in very specific instances. Using the suggestion in that sticky (saying 'no' and leaving the room) I've been able to almost completely eradicate Caper's nipping inside the house. BUT the worst biting continues outside of the house, and it happens in very specific instances.
When we are on a walk and cross a street, parking lot, or field, he will suddenly cross in front of me and jump up and bite my arms, legs, butt, ankles, HARD! He'll keep attacking and won't relent! I've had passersby think that I'm being mauled by my own dog, or that I'm being an abusive dog owner. I've tried yelling "ouch!" "no!" grabbing his muzzle, pinning him, rubbing his belly to calm him, asking him to sit for food, sticking a toy in his mouth, holding him by his collar so he can't continue to bite me - nothing works! I have semi-permanent massive bruises all over my body from it.
Unfortunately when he's doing this outdoors I can't just get away like I would in the house since he's tied to me. I've tried tying him to whatever is nearby, like a pole or tree and stepping away to turn my back to him, but by the time I turn around he's already frantically chewed halfway through the leash. When I go to untie him, he continues biting.
At first I was worried that he was trying to tell me something, that he's hurting or thinks the walk is too long, but one time he did it immediately after we got out of the house, even when he was the one who wanted the walk.
Has anyone else dealt with this problem? He otherwise had been an amazing boy, responding to training in most other departments and being otherwise well-behaved, but this problem is really beginning to erode the trust/affection that I had for him. Thanks so much!! |
| | | bttlsgtmajor Puppy
Join date : 2013-01-24 Location : Middleburg Heights Ohio
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:35 pm | |
| We had similar issues with Nanook, more with my wife than me. This was when he was only a couple of months old so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. We solved it by a combination of the pinning, muzzle hold, and also the use of bitter apple. It took a few weeks to break him of the habit, but we haven't seen it since. I might suggest if you haven't done it already perhaps try bitter apple or a "pet corrector". It works well for us. Pet corrector is, in essence, a co2 cartage connected to a trigger that'll supply a blast of air. You can use this aimed at their side and it'll break their current mindset so you can correct them with "No!". They're also known as "pet convincers". If the bitter apple and pet corrector don't work (or you want to try something without buying something new) you could fill a hair water bottle with cold water and turn it to "stream" then "shoot" him in the face with that (try to avoid the eyes). That works sometimes with Nanook and it might give you something to try in the short term. Hopefully something works for you |
| | | Mishka&Me Puppy
Join date : 2013-04-02 Location : Madeira, Portugal
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:03 pm | |
| ... or just blow on his face. Mine hates it and stopped him in no time. |
| | | wpskier222 Senior
Join date : 2013-02-11 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:15 pm | |
| First of all, I love that his name is Caper. How old is he? My puppy does this too and he's approaching 15 weeks, but he started when he was really young. I think, he's trying to instigate play, because he jumps, bites and nips at my clothes (sacrificed a couple pairs of pants and a skirt before I fixed this problem), legs, arms, and butt, while doing it he also barks, growl barks and woos at me. He really goes nuts with it when I wear a skirt, or at least he did before I dealt with it.
So, this really worked with him, but be careful not to do it when you're mad or angry, you HAVE to stay calm. When he tried to bite me, I turned and faced him, and took a shuffled step toward him (make sure not to 'knee' him, kick him, or step on a toe), some contact is okay, but nothing hard that could cause pain, but enough that he has to jump out of the way to avoid being stepped on (think of it as invading his personal bubble). Every time he would try to come toward me and bite (no matter what direction he came from), i would go toward him and say 'ah ah' (use whatever your correct word is, but I avoid 'no' because its too easy to get angry, at least for me). Try to keep your arms as close to your body as possible (I crossed mine), and lean your torso forward. Backing up and jerking away invites him to play and bite more. The first time I used this strategy, it was actually about a 10-15 minute 'war' on the sidewalk people were looking at me like I was crazy, it was really intense. I would do this every time he tried that behavior, and each time it took less time for him to stop biting and move forward. He still gets tempted to do it about once a walk, but all it takes to stop it is a simple leash correction and 'ah ah,' sometimes I don't even need the leash correction. It took about a week of hell and barely walking 2 feet, but it solved it.
* Also, timing is key, don't let him get his teeth on you before you take the step. He should be jumping out of the way so he can't get you. I mean if you don't see him coming the first time that makes sense, but once you enter into the 'discussion' you shouldn't let him get you again. |
| | | wpskier222 Senior
Join date : 2013-02-11 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:33 pm | |
| Btw, I think this technique is called yielding.
Also, I feel your pain. For a few weeks, I looked like I had a really psycho cat because of all the scratches and bite marks from those needle teeth. Actually, I do have a psycho cat, but for once it wasn't the cat's fault lol. |
| | | djannitto Teenager
Join date : 2012-04-18 Location : New England
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:30 pm | |
| My puppy started doing this exact same thing to me at 5 months old. It was awful. Not only was it scary at first, but it was frustrating and left me feeling somewhat betrayed by him. |
| | | wpskier222 Senior
Join date : 2013-02-11 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:21 pm | |
| djannitto, how did you deal with Qannik doing that? Did he grow out of it? |
| | | NewComer Puppy
Join date : 2013-06-10 Location : California
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:23 pm | |
| - wpskier222 wrote:
- First of all, I love that his name is Caper. How old is he?
I know, it's like I was asking for it when I named him that -.- lol He's 6 months but received no training from his previous owner so I am basically starting off with a gigantic untrained puppy -.- Thankfully because he was left out in the yard 24/7 he didn't need to be potty trained. So I went to Petsmart to buy bitter apple and the cashier said that hand sanitizer works the same way, so that saved me a few bucks. I really like the yielding idea too, since he loves to be chased - maybe putting him on the defensive will satisfy his play instinct and save my poor limbs at the same time, a win-win! I took him on our midday walk today bracing myself when we crossed through that wide open parking lot, all of my new weapons in hand, but he just looked up at me and kept going. Keep your fingers crossed for our evening walk |
| | | djannitto Teenager
Join date : 2012-04-18 Location : New England
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:16 am | |
| Jen, after trying everything, including using the great advice we received on this forum, nothing was working for us. Things started to really unravel with Q in regards to his training at around 9 months old. We started to lose control in our house and he was still on occasion attacking me on walks. The last time he jumped at me while walking was in February of this year. I walk him alone in the morning and I have some back issues. There was just no way I could continue to let this happen. That was the last straw for us. My husband and I made a difficult decision to veer from the positive reinforcement training and enroll Q in two week board/train K9 training program which uses the e-collar. It turns out to have been the best decision we ever made. Besides being phenominally better behaved, Q is a much happier and affectionate dog. For us personally, this was the best decision. |
| | | NewComer Puppy
Join date : 2013-06-10 Location : California
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:35 pm | |
| Djannito, when you say unravel - did he hit adolescence and decide to test all of his limits? Also, did the training stick for good after those two weeks? |
| | | wpskier222 Senior
Join date : 2013-02-11 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:39 pm | |
| I'm glad you found something that worked for Qannik! It sounds like you have a great relationship now. |
| | | NewComer Puppy
Join date : 2013-06-10 Location : California
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:49 am | |
| So yesterday I tried the hand sanitizer when he began to bite me. The moment he wrapped his teeth around my arm, I dipped my finger into a glob of hand sanitizer and touched the inside of his mouth with it. He paused, then began writhing on the floor sneezing repeatedly, and using his front paws to try to take his own head off! Wow, I did not intend to cause him that much discomfort, and will not be doing that again. On the other hand, all walks since then (3 in a row) have been without him attacking me or even jumping up, so I'm staying hopeful. The yielding technique will be next if it comes to it. |
| | | nayelle1 Newborn
Join date : 2013-03-07 Location : modesto ca.
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:00 pm | |
| hopely that works so could stop doing that good look and tell me if that worked so i could also try it i also have a problem with my 1 1/2 boy but not when i walk him its when i play with him its like he gets over exited to play do u think that technique will also work. |
| | | cinnamonbits Adult
Join date : 2012-11-03 Location : San Antonio, TX
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:52 pm | |
| Playing is different than walking. Since you are playing with him, if you don't like something he does, you need to stop him. You would be better off following the advice here: https://www.itsahuskything.com/t1646-puppy-biting This way you can teach him how you want him to play. |
| | | Hayden_69 Senior
Join date : 2011-12-26 Location : Alexandria, VA
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:15 pm | |
| I personally have never had a dog bite me while walking, but I whole heartedly agree with Djannitto. My dog was too out of control and pushed me to the last straw when he killed our teacup Yorkie. After many positive reinforcement classes (private and group) and many personal trainers, enough was enough and I enrolled Hayden into an e-collar training class. It was the best investment I've ever made and since then I've trained my two other Huskies with great success.
If all else fails, I highly suggest trying this method! It's a miracle worker. |
| | | djannitto Teenager
Join date : 2012-04-18 Location : New England
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:09 pm | |
| I'm sure a lot of it was that he hit adolescence and he most certainly tested his limits. However, he has an incredibly strong will and is very manipulative. Although there were a number of issues we were dealing with, the biggest issues were the attacking on walks and growling/snapping at us when he had something he wasn't supposed to. He also has a high level of anxiety which seemed to come out only at night time. No matter what we did prior to the K9 training, things continued to get worse. We reached our breaking point. I didn't ever want to get to a point where he had bitten one of us, or even worse someone else, and we would be forced to give him up or ultimately euthanized. It is by far the best decision we made. I have no doubts whatsoever and quite frankly, wish we did this sooner. Qannik isn't a cuddler and never has been and wasn't all that affectionate before training, but since coming back he kisses us all the time and shows way more affection. He's more settled at home and we almost never see the anxiety anymore. It's been 9 weeks and the training period last for three months. His behavior just gets better and better each day. He isn't perfect, because we aren't perfect, but I would say his behavior is 90% better. No more jumping and biting on walks and no more growling/snapping. He's awsome! In fact he's coming on his first camping trip with us this weekend. Prior to the K9 training, we couldn't even think of brining him. |
| | | NewComer Puppy
Join date : 2013-06-10 Location : California
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:56 pm | |
| I know it's been a while since I last posted in this topic but, djannitto, I'm glad that Qannik is doing so much better! Seems that the training gave both him and your family more freedom and enjoyment. For anyone who is interested, the yielding technique worked!! And Caper loves it because he gets what he wants, me playing with him. The only difference is that he is on the defensive rather than offensive, but it's all still fun to him. Also, for anyone who is experiencing this problem, I carry around a special firm plush dog toy on our walks and stick it in his mouth when he gives me that crazy i'm-going-to-jump-on-you-now-look. Then I start running. So we run for minutes alongside each other, both holding onto the toy between us! lol! If you are in a quieter area, starting a game of tug/kill the toy works wonderfully. So not only has our problem been solved but it has become a way for us to bond even more! The running and chasing game I've also used to my advantage during recall training. This morning he was off leash in a large fenced field and did a 180 turn in the middle of chasing a bird to dart after me when i yelled his name and started running. We are both very happy! Thank you all for sharing your experiences and advice!! |
| | | wpskier222 Senior
Join date : 2013-02-11 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:58 pm | |
| That's great! I have been using the chasing for recall training as well! I actually have been using the word 'chase' as my recall command instead of come. |
| | | NewComer Puppy
Join date : 2013-06-10 Location : California
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:23 pm | |
| The chasing seems to be working 100x better than the conventional food method, and is more reliable during high distraction. I'm theorizing that it just plays on huskies' natural inclinations, considering the high prey/chase drive and lack of interest in food! |
| | | djannitto Teenager
Join date : 2012-04-18 Location : New England
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:32 pm | |
| I'm glad your techniques are working for you. Because, trust me, there are plenty of other things I wouldn've rather spent my money on, than board/train program. My husband and I gave up our vacation for it. It's not cheap at all...but all that said, we did what we needed to for our puppy whom we love to death. I'm just so glad that everything worked out so well. Best of luck to you as you continue to train and watch your little guy grow! |
| | | NewComer Puppy
Join date : 2013-06-10 Location : California
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:58 am | |
| Oh yes, I know how many hundreds of dollars are needed to invest in those training programs. You really were dedicated by doing that! Caper hasn't reached his adolescent phase yet but when it comes time and if things really start going downhill, I may have to think about doing the same.
And it seems like I spoke too soon - the yielding technique, although it flawlessly prevents him from being able to put his teeth on me once he already has mind to, actually is encouraging him to bite more often when he's aroused. I should have seen this. Playing is reinforcing for him, so he will come back again and again to bite me until we have done the shuffle for a good few minutes and he is tired of playing. Of course having a long play session in the middle of an intersection as the red hand is flashing is not an option. Also, he has begun to bark loudly at me when I do this, which is annoying considering he is 95% silent, not to mention it draws attention from people who then think I am hurting him...
I am sticking with the toy for now, since i can still lead him out of the intersection with it. At other times, I give a sharp "NO" with a finger pointed at him and disapproving eyes. He seems to get the point and stop for the moment, but it doesn't mean he won't try again the next day.
Yesterday night when I walked him, he stopped and began digging in someone's garden. Of course commands and offering treats didn't work (as the don't when he's fixated on prey/dogs). When I finally dragged him away he began attacking me and was deliberately avoiding the toy I waved in his face so that he could bite me over and over! When he's that tenacious I had to pull up sharply on the lead and push him away with my knee so that he can't reach me which I feel very bad for doing, but I'm sure it doesn't hurt him while the huge bruises he would have given me do.
I guess we will continue working on it with what techniques we have. Compared to when I first acquired him, he is mouthing, jumping and biting a whole lot less (all of my bruises have healed! yay), so I am hopeful it'll slowly become extinct! |
| | | wpskier222 Senior
Join date : 2013-02-11 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:07 am | |
| I had that issue when I started working with yielding as well. I didn't move forward on our walks until he stopped jumping, barking or being zoomie, and any time he came toward me I stepped toward him, even if he wasn't biting. Sometimes he would get to the point where we could move forward, and I'd start to lean forward to take a step and the whole thing started over again. So, back to the beginning. Yes sometimes it led to a 5 minute battle (or longer) with him jumping around howling and barking and a continuation of his efforts to 'get' me. He eventually decided that the 'game' of jumping out of my way was no fun and a walk was. If he just didn't get the point, I would just pick him up and carry him a half a block, and try again. If he still didn't get the point, I carried him home. Eventually he realized that the jumping out of my way game was no fun, and if he kept instigating that game then he got carried home (usually while chewing on my shoulder grumbling). Even though he's over 30 lbs now, I would still do that, and will if he ever does it when he's bigger. I don't care if he weighs 60, i'll carry his butt home if he gets bratty. He hasn't done it for a while now though, and if he gets the bug it just takes the stink eye and leaning my torso forward to shut it down. I also play the chase me game on grass so that he gets some running out of his system. |
| | | wpskier222 Senior
Join date : 2013-02-11 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:08 am | |
| By the way, I'm 5'4" and 115 lbs, but I would still carry him home if he acted up like that. |
| | | djannitto Teenager
Join date : 2012-04-18 Location : New England
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:20 am | |
| Having your dog do that to you is very frustrating and disturbing. I wish I could give you words of wisdom, however, nothing I tried worked. I'm 5' tall, and have a bad back. There's no way I can pick up a 52lb dog. My biggest worry was the escalation. He was relentless when he did this to me. My husband and I felt very stuck. We couldn't trust him and therefore, how could we trust him with other people? The thought of him hurting someone because we couldn't get him under control was really scary. There were other things going on with him too. We didn't board/train him just because of the biting attacks. He was out of control in our home, and was guarding everything and anything he could get his mouth on. We were pushed to our decision, but I'm really glad we made it. Keep trying all the things you are advised of on this forum. Good luck with everything! |
| | | wpskier222 Senior
Join date : 2013-02-11 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Biting/attacking me on walks!! Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:48 am | |
| Yes, I don't know what I would have done if Dizzy didn't respond to it. I think Dizzy did it in play, as a game, and I was lucky that my technique to teach him its not a game I will play worked. He also doesn't have any issues with guarding thankfully. I think your commitment to Qannik and what you did for him is beautiful and the definition of integrity. I hope I didn't come across as belittling his issues or you choice on how you dealt with it. I really do care about the people I meet on here, and its awesome to see that you made it through the really hard times together. |
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