Source thread: https://www.itsahuskything.com/t14070p20-tired-of-being-ignored?nid=1#211366

Tika wrote:

MiyasMomma wrote:

I agree HOTM might need a bit of a revamp. It's a little frustrating to see almost every dog always has one vote (meaning people always vote for their own dog). I try only to vote for Diz if he gets another vote, or if I really think he has a stand out pic.

Then suggest someway to change it and it will be taken into consideration like everything else on the forum. Some things we can do, some things we just can't because of the limitation of our host.

So after reading this snippet in particular I've had a thought on how to possibly improve HOTM. I don't really think that it needs revamping but these minor changes don't seem too unreasonable; and I think they would help a lot to improve some of the recent negative attitude towards the system. I would suggest changing just two things with how it's currently run:

1) Users can no longer vote for their own submission. This way everyone must vote for someone else and it helps to better ensure that the best dog wins every month.

2) Each user cannot place in the top three more than 3-4 times a year. If they do then their calender slot for that month can go down to 4th place. This way we can get more rotation and variety in our calenders. Also people would no longer be able to complain that they're "seeing the same dog every month."

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Again I don't really believe that these changes are necessary as of now, but it might be nice and should help to calm some of the tension. However if these changes were to be implemented then the whole voting process would have to be overseen (or at least double checked) by a mod/admin. So it could only work if you guys had the time to devote to it.

Please let me know what you think about this, and if you have any questions about my whacky logic I would be happy to answer them!

Aiden-it's already in the HOTM rules that you aren't supposed to vote for your own dog, but people do it anyways. And like it was said in the other thread, changing the format so that it would be impossible to do so is far too laborious.

Yea I'll explain this a little bit better than I did in the other thread, and how HOTM works.


People submit their photos.

1 person (user A) compiles all these photos into a simple thread or post.
That person (user A) also sets up the poll and opens voting up to the forum.


Users B to Z come in and vote during the time the pole is opened.



Due to limitations within the system User A, when setting up the poll, can not restrict any users from voting for their own photo on a technical level. It's just not possible for that user to do so.

So instead it is in the rules and left up to the honor system. IE don't vote for your own dog expect in tie breakers.



I would need to use some kind of 3rd party code, program, or system to lock people out of voting for certain photos / dogs. All members would also have to log into this "program" as it could never be 100% implemented into the forum (again limitations we have because of our host).

While I believe I could find something to meet this criteria, and can and will do it if the forum wants it, It's not a simple thing. And it will require the need to log into the site multiple times, so to speak, to achieve simply vote, something to keep in mind.



As far as your 2nd suggestion goes if enough people voice their agreement here on this thread we can definitely look into that, or something like that. To make it more fair for everyone.

Maybe we can have a vote on it, or the mods will mull it over, but it will be discussed...


Voice your opinion and we can look into it for sure.

~Chris~

Yeah I had thought that the first suggestion would be a little hard to enforce; and I wasn't aware that it was already a rule. So thank you for that.

When I said that a mod had to oversee the process, I was thinking that the mod (or admin if mods don't have the power to see who votes for who) would go back and count the votes personally, deleting/not counting "selfie" votes in the final tally. It wouldn't require any special program, but it would take some time which is why I don't know if that particular idea is reasonable.

Maybe the rules just need to be reposted in the first post for the voting? I know it's asking a lot but to be honest with you it's been so long since I read the HOTM rules that I forgot you weren't supposed to vote for your own dog. 90% of the time I vote for someone else's dog but I have voted for my own in the past.

The only issue I see that may come up with the rotating is it is a lot of the same people who participate in the HOTM in the first place. But it's definitely a good idea at least, imo.

If I remember correctly, currently if user A wins in Jan then they are not allowed to participate the next month right? Maybe we just extend that to the top 3. So 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all refrain from entering the following month?

HOTM Rules

Koda wrote:

1. NEW 11/27/2012: One photo submission PER MEMBER.
2. The same member may not win back-to-back months.
3. Show good sportsmanship and don't vote for your own pup (except in tie breaker votes)!
5. HAVE FUN! This is about friendly competition and seeing themed pictures of our dogs every month. Remember, it's just a forum Very Happy
6. NEW 2-2-2012: Only members with 100 posts or more may submit a photo.

Please note the new rule. This rule will go into effect for the January 2013 HOTM Competition and thereafter. This is to prevent too many submissions each month.

Stickied for authority

The rules as they are right now so everyone knows where they are and what they state

~Chris~

wpskier222 wrote:

If I remember correctly, currently if user A wins in Jan then they are not allowed to participate the next month right? Maybe we just extend that to the top 3. So 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all refrain from entering the following month?

Tika wrote:

HOTM Rules

Koda wrote:

1. NEW 11/27/2012: One photo submission PER MEMBER.
2. The same member may not win back-to-back months.
3. Show good sportsmanship and don't vote for your own pup (except in tie breaker votes)!
5. HAVE FUN! This is about friendly competition and seeing themed pictures of our dogs every month. Remember, it's just a forum Very Happy
6. NEW 2-2-2012: Only members with 100 posts or more may submit a photo.

Please note the new rule. This rule will go into effect for the January 2013 HOTM Competition and thereafter. This is to prevent too many submissions each month.

Stickied for authority

The rules as they are right now so everyone knows where they are and what they state

~Chris~

I think this is all very good. I especially like the idea extending to 1,2,3 winners. It should offer more variety for the calendar. I just recently hit my post count to start participating, so I haven't really seen how it's been in the past, but I think implementing these ideas would be easier than making it impossible to vote for your own dog.

Maybe just a reminder at the top of the page every mo.? As in "Remember, good sportmanship, no voting for your own..."

I started a thread for all the mods yesterday to talk about limiting winners in the yr. thank you all for also adding your own suggestions. we will keep working on it and make some changes for 2015

Hey Everyone!! since I was one of the complainers of the HOTM, but also one of the biggest supporters of the whole thing, imho, I first would like to say that Chris(Tika) misquoted me that is Jenny's (Wpskier222)'s quote not mine. I am a big rules follower and I only entered HOTM once, and well Miya won, but I followed the rules and only voted for her when it was a second vote for the tie breaker, if memory serves me my original vote was for Simon. I have never been on a forum before so when the rules are there I follow them because I honestly thought that a mod or the owners(Tori and Tika) could see our individual vote.

"I agree HOTM might need a bit of a revamp. It's a little frustrating to see almost every dog always has one vote (meaning people always vote for their own dog). I try only to vote for Diz if he gets another vote, or if I really think he has a stand out pic" belongs to Jenny

I was in shock, sorry, that people voted for their own dogs.......I may be a little naive at times I guess.

I do like Jenny's and Aidans suggestions, either works for me.

My concern is that HOTM is one of my favorite aspects of this forum. I went back to years past and seen the participation was huge and wondered why it no longer is. Yes it's fun having my dog win, I showed the calendar around town showing off my girl and the others, lol. The biggest thing for me and what I told people when I showed off the calendar was "We are helping less fortunate huskies". That is big for me and I hope big for everyone else here.

I did want to make the suggestion, if possible, that maybe one of the winners sets up the HOTM for the next month, what I mean they are the ones who set the polls and end voting, call the winners. It may seem more "fair" that way, as for new people not questioning why the person setting up the vote is also participating, and may "appear" to look like the voting is rigged. I am not saying this is true, but the winner does select the new topic and starts the thread, but that person does not set the vote, nor sets the date when voting stops, and calls the winners and resets voting when there's a tie. Some months there's another vote for ties and other months there is not. So many months there is no consistency in how it works, days of when voting starts and for how long varies, there was one month where we had 1 day to vote, and I didn't get a chance to. If I need to clarify something let me know.

Just my

Renee

Renee not every winner sets up the voting or calls it no. I have been doing it for the better part of the year. Some months you have more time to vote, some less. This is not deliberate, it has more to do with how busy people are, sorry some months are a little more hectic than others, and sometimes I ask others to call it because I dont have time. This has been happening for a long time though, not just the past year when I have been doing it. We cant all be on all the time to regulate it. The reason I started doing the set up and poll is that the winner from the previous month might not have the time or remember to set it up. They are sometimes more casual forum members who take extended breaks. For example Elise (Simon's mom) was off for a while recently and only just popped back in. (waves Hi!)

As far as the calling it, I try and give people warnings as to when I will close the votes so that they can get them in. I think I gave something like 4-5 last month. And no it is never fixed for any dog. Its a monthly forum picture, I think we can all agree it is for fun and charity, and it is not important enough to rig.

wpskier222 wrote:

If I remember correctly, currently if user A wins in Jan then they are not allowed to participate the next month right? Maybe we just extend that to the top 3. So 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all refrain from entering the following month?

A problem with this though is participation rates. If we eliminate 3 members, and members who regularly win especially, then that sets up a need for more people to participate.

In general, the more people submitting and voting the better it will be. Not to mention, the more likely it will be that repeat winners will be less likely to win again.

Kelly, You misunderstood my point, I understand that most people here have work and other obligations, so having consistency in the time frames are difficult. However, I for one thought this was a mod ran "contest" which appears to new people as fair. Meredith was the one who ran it for the first several months I started being here, the last couple of months it was you, and I "thought" maybe you were a mod. Please do not take offense personally to what I said. Perception through the internet world is quite one sided. Me on this side of the screen sees a mod running the show, I see it as fair, since a mod is a mod because the owners see that mod as being a fair, unbiased person. Me on this side of the computer seeing another "random" member as running the show, may appear to be not quite fair or unbiased. I am trying to have people understand why some members may feel out of place here. Please do not take it as a personal attack.

As someone who has never been on a forum before, and only have my husband as a guide to how forums work, he explained the hierarchy as in mods, owners, etc. It could have been, I'll use Aidan as an example, Aidan who has called the vote the last couple of months, and declared the winners, and called for tie breakers, the "feelings" of some would be the same, why is a "random" member calling the vote. So why not have the last months winner do the whole thing through the known guidance of a mod. That way the appearance is "that person doesn't have a horse in the race" so it must be a fair race.

There is a reason beyond the fact that members go "offline" for a while as to why HOTM is not as big as in previous years. I was offering up a different side to the problem. I understand where Tika is coming from as far as reformatting the whole thing is daunting and makes the time constraints worse. So offering up several suggestions can only help the problem. Like Jeff said if you limit the top 3 instead of just the top one, will lower the activity per month even more.

Another suggestion would be to have all 12 months of themes already selected for the year and the only thing the winner does each month is sit it out vs setting up the next month and picking the theme. I liked picking the theme, but if people were aware of the theme a head of time perhaps more would participate.

Again Kelly, please don't take that as personal. Since the HOTM was brought up in separate thread, I felt that clarifying some of the problems would be an honest way of dealing with the problems from that thread. I sincerely hope you now understand what I was trying to say. I was in no way pointing fingers at you, I was merely explaining why some people may misunderstand how some things work, as far as the disgruntled feelings of some where the HOTM is concerned.

Renee I wasnt getting personal or offended, I was explaining how and why I do it like I have.

As for the going offline. I wasnt using that to explain why there is less participation, I was using it to explain that we cant necessarily ask the winner from the previous month to run the next one every time. They arent always around the next month for whatever personal reason.

Thank you for clarifying Kelly, makes sense. I did throw out another idea so i hope some people can think it through and come up with a solution that will benefit the rescue we are trying to help. I would love to see our group send more than $200 to a rescue, although I didn't participate in SS or Card exchange due to a slight money malfunction, lol, most people here spent that much if they participated in all the holiday fun here. I think it's sad that we can not promote this better, or get more people involved to benefit a rescue more than the $200 we sent. Yes $200 is a wonderful donation, but if more participated wouldn't $500 be so much better??!! I also wonder if that may be the problem too. Money spent in your personal life during the holidays, then the card exchange(postage is ridiculous), then SS, then calendars, and quite frankly if your dog isn't in it most, not all, will not buy one, even if it is to help a husky charity.

the calendar started only a few years ago, and yes we get $200 but that is nothing to scoff at. We all participate in the things we want to and we donate what we can. Me participating in gift and card exchange is something I look forward to, and it takes a lot of effort for the people organizing all that. We try every year to get many calenders sold to maximise this and Jen deliberately explains that if people pay the amount suggested then a proportion goes to the rescue, but people are welcome to donate more.

I will add while I understand you think we should gang together more for the sake of a rescue organization during the holidays, can I remind you of the multiple times our forum has blitz fundraised for members facing really awful medical issues with their dogs? We as a group have raised over $4500 this year that I can think of for multiple members towards emergency treatments and surgeries. Personally I would rather give a small amount to the rescue and have some extra over the year to help someone who really needs it unexpectedly, but thats my choice.

I absolutely do NOT want another group soliciting me for money!  We get calls, we belong to several organizations, we get letters, emails.   Please, this forum, so far, is one place where I do not feel harangued to donate to something!

I do like the HOTM thread, love all the pictures, I always vote for the pic I think will make the best calendar, not necessarily the best picture, (at least in my opinion ).

I sincerely hope that HOTM continues in its light-hearted spirit and does not get so overloaded with rules that I do not know if I'm doing it right or not.  I certainly do not take it personally if Ami does not win - not Ami's fault, my photography often leaves a lot to be desired

Oh shit - Kelly, I forgot about those. I have no problem with those fundraisers oR the way they were handled. It was handled beautifully and I am glad that people were helped

I think at this point I can safely say any change made to the HOTM format will be done together as a community... And not by decree.

We will, most likely (This isn't set in stone), watch this topic and select a number of suggestions the forum as a whole will be able to vote on for an extended period of time.

Once we know the direction the community here would like to see HOTM evolve we'll do everything in our power to reach that goal.


Until that time feel free to keep the suggestions and opinions coming.... But remember this is just a discussion at this point. There is no need for this to get heated, or take anything personally.... Not that anyone has, this is simply a reminder.

Amymeme wrote:

I absolutely do NOT want another group soliciting me for money! We get calls, we belong to several organizations, we get letters, emails. Please, this forum, so far, is one place where I do not feel harangued to donate to something!

Amy brings up a valid concern,

This forum has, and I'm fairly certain, never will be a pay to play forum. I like to think that Tori, and the mods, would never let that happen.

At least from my point of view, no member should ever be forced to pay anything they aren't willing to in order to participate in anything. All our "events" (Let's call em that) should always be optional, from the card exchange, to secret Santa, to donating to an emergency another member needs help with.

These Events are offered as "bonuses" to the community here. If any member can't afford it, or flat out doesn't want to join in, that should be their option... But either way we like to think they can still actively participate in all other aspects of the forum.

The Goal of this forum continues to be to share knowledge and experiences, to better educate owners, and for the well being of the pups they own. Stories and pictures are a welcome and happy bonus we all get in return...

This isn't a charity, or a donation site. The money that has been raised here is no small feat, and is done with care and the volunteered time from the members and mods of this forum. It is something which brings a smile to my face every year, weather $200 was raised, or $20.

Though more money is always welcome, I feel it wouldn't be something that would ever solicit, or tax, the members of this forum for.

You give what you can, when you can, and there should be no judgement for it either way.

~Chris~

Hm. I haven't noticed random people calling the vote. I think in general, if I make a comment about a winner or whatever I personally mean it as a bump/reminder to a mod to close or call the contest... I wouldn't presume to call it myself, and I don't really consider it official until Mer or Kelly calls it...

In terms of participation, I think it just naturally varies. If I'm too busy, or I don't have a great pic or a ton of time then I don't put anything up. I know some of our members are also students, so their time/participation largely varies based on their academic schedules as well.

There were a couple months I got annoyed, but mostly because the topics were always holiday related, but then that started changing up so there you go, nothing to complain about. I don't think I've ever won one, but Diz got in the top 3 one month last year.

Amy, I bought a high dollar camera and I think it just made my dogs faster. I still have a terrible time getting clear photos of them so don't feel bad about your photography. I don't think it is us. I just think our dogs are sneaky.

I will say for me, with some of the holiday themes it can be hard to get things setup to take a picture for HOTM. The November challenge of waiting for Santa was a great photo opp. but in the beginning of November my Christmas stuff is still buried halfway to Russia in the barn and hasn't been dug out to get a picture in time so I was relying on photos from last Christmas. (since we were moving last Christmas I had none to rely on. That's my own fault though) Same with other months. So perhaps staggering months would be a way that winners could still choose but would put the list far enough in advance we might be able to dig out props? Instead of a winner choosing next month, they choose the month after next so that we always know themes two months in advance. Eh, it's just a thought. Maybe someone can expand on it or run it in a different better direction. I like that the winner gets to choose a theme and would hate to see that change. (maybe winner chooses theme for the month that they won for next years calendar? Then we would have all the themes lined out a year in advance. Hmm....)

Along the same lines of staggering things, maybe staggering when the calender becomes available to purchase. It would require taking this years December winner and using them as the winner for next years December calender but then you could potentially get the calenders moved in November to take some pressure off the craziness of December. Then calender coordinators could already have it sent and out of the way before all the SS and cards start and then people could spread their payments for different things out between paychecks a little more.

TwisterII wrote:

Amy, I bought a high dollar camera and I think it just made my dogs faster. I still have a terrible time getting clear photos of them so don't feel bad about your photography. I don't think it is us. I just think our dogs are sneaky.

They do it every time, don't they?!? I gave up on Archer's dog house bedding and went to straw and pine flakes. So his bed is fine, now...Ami's, not so fine. Now Archer drags everything out of Ami's house...and the backyard is STILL strewn with chew up dog bed, wool sweaters and pieces of blue satin bedspread

I am also going to throw this out in case someone more creative can do anything with it. I don't think it will do anything to help with participation so much but it would certainly add an element that might favor more or different people.

On another forum that I am on (cars) we do monthly challenges. We challenge people to get a picture of their car with/doing something. First one to get a picture that meets the challenge gets to pick the next challenge and at the end of the month the person who gets the most creative with the challenge gets their photo on the calender. It encourages participation in the forum in that to be fast as winning the speed portion you have to be paying attention, but doesn't eliminate the busy either. An example I used explaining it a bit ago is where the challenge might be getting a picture of your car (in this case, dog) next to a boat. First one gets it wins choice of the next challenge, but the one that can get the most over the top or creative or difficult shot that fills the challenge gets a win too.

It's really not much different than what we do now in the stripped down base of HOTM, just an added element or two. Someone else might be able to run it in a different direction or build off it in a manor I haven't/can't.

im reading all the comments but i just want to remind EVERYONE we do this for FUN.

I't meant to be fun and not over though to much. I never want it to turn into a true competition, its just something that lets everyone over 100 post have fun with and in the end we raise some $ for a husky rescue.

the calendar ordering part is no big deal, we build the pages as the months go on and i warn everyone in advance how much is needed so its up to you to set that $ aside so its ready for the fundraiser. it is always between $20-$25.
no need to make it harder with using last yrs pics in this yrs calendar and what not.

we will taking all these suggestions and as a forum we will vote for the best changes.

jbealer wrote:

im reading all the comments but i just want to remind EVERYONE we do this for FUN.

I't meant to be fun and not over though to much. I never want it to turn into a true competition, its just something that lets everyone over 100 post have fun with and in the end we raise some $ for a husky rescue.

the calendar ordering part is no big deal, we build the pages as the months go on and i warn everyone in advance how much is needed so its up to you to set that $ aside so its ready for the fundraiser. it is always between $20-$25.
no need to make it harder with using last yrs pics in this yrs calendar and what not.

we will taking all these suggestions and as a forum we will vote for the best changes.

We need a "thumbs up" emoticon 'cause that's what I give you for this And I guess this is appropriate, too