How am I being patronizing? I'm joking and playing to lighten the kinda tense mood with people I don't know.

I'm gonna go bang my head up against a brick wall now so I can be more productive.

(now THAT was patronizing)

So was this "And Megan, this is not about you, k? "


I feel productive.

My friend has over 20 years experience with this breeder and introduced me to her as her mentor. She highly recommended this breeder as a good fit for me for my next working/show/family prospect. She had an in depth knowledge of the lineages behind the dogs and the health behind the dogs. I completely trusted the recommendation. There are things we have discussed together that agree that things are different now. I wish they weren't, but that is what it is. In the end things for me did not turn out as hoped, and a contract agreement will never be righted. I'm completely heartbroken over that thought, but not over the girls that I adore no matter what they are my family first.

There is a reason you will not see me suggest breeders that are not a part of our parent club, for whatever reasons they may have. Our parent club, the SHCA, sets forth ethical breeding guidelines that their members are supposed to honor. Its at least a good place to start looking when you are searching for a new healthy puppy- you will not find this breeder on the parent club's site. Take that for what it's worth.

Megan, you posted:

"WOAH. No one said you were lowly - I'm a pet owner."

So I said "this is not about you." It's not about what you said. Meaning the comment about being a pet owner wasn't directed at you.

**************************************

Lani, if you have over 20 years of experience with her, then she has over 20 years experience with YOU. And I didn't listen to what she had to say about you or your friend. My final decision was based on what the AKC told me directly.

I'm giving my personal experience. People can take from it what they want. I'm not singing anyone's praises except my two pups. They are perfect. If we we're half what our dogs are this world would be a much better place. I'm sure we can ALL agree on that.

That's fine if she wants to say things about me or anyone else she's done business with. I have absolutely nothing to hide. I am an open book- I stand by every decision I have made, everything that I have said. I am not ashamed in any way of the kind of person I am, the kind of pet owner I am, or anything else. The bottom line is I am not the one being investigated by the AKC-

Why does AKC's opinion/judgement take presidence over our parent club to you?

arooroomom wrote:

Why does AKC's opinion/judgement take presidence over our parent club to you?

Kristina,

I think it's because people don't understand what a parent club is. Very rarely will I suggest a breeder who isn't a member of the parent club, because someone who is breeding ethically should have no problem meeting the qualifications of the parent club. If it is someone who is breeding their first litter on say, a 3 year old bitch, that's different. The parent club won't allow anyone to be a member without 3 years experience in the breed, 2 years active in AKC dog sports, 2 sponsors who are current club members and an agreement with their code of ethics - which limits breeding. Some people who have only been in the breed a few years simply can't join yet, in that case if that person is responsible I MAY suggest them. Still, I don't think I have ever suggested anyone that isn't endorsed by the parent club. I actually check on the website and with the a few members before I suggest a new breeder....websites can be very misleading.

SHCA is a more powerful governing body than the AKC when it comes to Siberians. Once you are shunned from them - it's a hard time getting back..

Because I really have no idea and I'm sure other people don't either: What's a parent club?

The parent club is Siberian Husky Club of America - it is an AKC sanctioned club that works to make sure breeders are being ethical, the standard is staying true to the breed, education is being given to owners and people are doing what is in the best interest of the breed (among many other things).

http://www.shca.org

They determined the health testing necessary for our breed.

To the OP - Would you mind sharing your thoughts on back to back breedings of animals in general? I'm wondering what your stance is on this since you're coming off saying GC is uh-may-zing...

Also, if I may, please keep in mind that this is the internet. If anything you choose to say could potentially (<keyword) be taken as patronizing, chances are it will be. And we all know that when a message is not conveyed properly, it's the author who falls short on that, not the audience.

I'm no breeder, I'm a lowly pet-owner (as it was once said by, ahem, someone)... but even I know back to back breedings are done by the lowest of the low. There are BYBs that don't even breed back to back. For somebody to be selling registered dogs to be doing that, is, IMO, absolutely disgusting. How would you feel if you were bred EVERY TIME YOU HAD YOUR PERIOD? Not cool in my books, bro. Just because a pup is sold as AKC doesn't have any influence on how well the pups are being bred - it just shows their lineage. If they have gotten involved, then you know something's swimming up the wrong creek with a breeder.

Please be considerate of all these things when posting - everybody that has posted is here to educate others as well, and not just you.

As my good ol' pal Timon says, "Hakuna Matata"... *Pumba fart*

Personally, I can't give two cents on the AKC opinions, I've seen an AKC breeder who's huskies are so far out of standard my eyes hurt! XD

Emily.Laiche wrote:

Personally, I can't give two cents on the AKC opinions, I've seen an AKC breeder who's huskies are so far out of standard my eyes hurt! XD

That's why I prefer to refer to the SHCA. Not that I'm against the AKC.

I constantly watch thre breeder threads, to know who to aoid... now with the SHCA I think ill be going to them for a new racing/show pup

There are not many strictly racing line breeders that are on the SHCA, mainly because the lack of health testing done in the racing world- but there are a few dual purpose kennels that are in good standing with the SHCA.

Yes, I know that but my dogs are pets first workers later =3 I dont like lack of health testing either =3 Im not saying a strict racer,I'm also thinking of trying a few conf. shows.

I think she meant dual purpose as in show/racing. Bralin Siberians is an example of a great show/racing kennel.

I did X'D I like both, mostly racing.

That's okay too, Emily! Many racing kennels only check eyes and not hips, so I don't truly feel comfortable suggesting racing, but I am not against it. Just a personal thing.

Yeah I'm with you there Megan! I know they claim that a dog with bad hips can't do the job....but the contrary runs on my team- I want to see hip and eye tests!

WOW!! I AM SOOO TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT THIS!!
First off I would like to apologize to the pet owners and people who just love their huskies for this crazy display. It is both unprofessional and embarrassing!! I hope this will not deter you from any future dealings with a responsible breeder!! There is a fine line between fact and slander and I am sorry you all had to witness it on a public forum!! I normally do not comment on this type of thing for several reasons but I feel their needs to be some common sense added to the issue.

For one thing, has anyone actually researched or read books on Canine reproduction?? Or does everyone always go by what they are told by other breeders?? I do not see anyone on here who has a Veterinarian degree, or who participate in canine research seminars. This has been a controversy between reproductive specialists, breeders and the dog show exhibitors for a long time!! Much like the controversy on the over vaccination of dogs. One size does not fit all.
Breeding practices depends on lots of factors. Some say it's better to have several litters right in a row because it's easier on the body to get in shape for pregnancy and stay that way than it is to have the hormonal ups and downs of breeding every other heat or every year. Some argue that dam should have all their litters early on in life and right in a row and then be retired young as opposed to being bred once a year for 6 or 7 years or more. And then some think a dam needs a break of one or even 2 heat cycles in between every litter and should only be bred a couple times. I don't think it's so much a question of ethics as what one personally believes is best and healthiest for the female, but I will say that there is little….. if any….. research clearly proving a serious detriment to the health of a HEALTHY, well cared for dam simply from having several litters in a row. But someone breeding every heat for a couple in a row because it's healthier for the bitch (upon veterinary advice) is different than someone who hasn't given it a second thought and is breeding every single heat because they can and because it makes them more money. Attached are some links to some research on the topic if anyone cares to learn anything!!

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/reproductive_system/reproductive_diseases_of_the_female_small_animal/pyometra_in_small_animals.html?qt=&sc=&alt=

http://www.afterdarkbeardies.com/symposium.html

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanLibertyKennels/posts/423908754330384

Also attached is a link directly to the ethical standard for breeding set by the SHCA
http://www.shca.org/shcahp4b.htm

How can a kennel be in bad standing with the parent club if they have never been a member nor have they ever applied for membership!?!? I feel it is a desperate ploy to use the club in this argument since none of the people complaining are in the club either and have not followed the clubs guide lines in their own breeding programs and have not health tested before breeding.

As far as the statement about the “uses of a stud dog without the owner’s consent” what was forgotten to be mentioned is…. the stud dog in question was also co-owned by GC. If the stud owner had a problem with GC breeding practices, then why was the stud there in the first place?? Why was there not a contract in place?? Why were GC dogs being promoted by this stud owner??

I think most breeders would agree that a puppy sold as a show prospect is just that “a prospect” this does not guarantee the puppy will end up being a show dog!! And if you are not happy with what you ended up with it is between you, your breeder and the stipulations on your contract to figure out what the next step is not bad mouthing your breeder on a forum!! If you wanted dogs ready now for the ring why did you go with a breeder who has slow maturing lines?? Didn't you see how small the mother was?? I have seen the pups mother’s breeding records on the AKC site and the last 2 litter from this dam was 5-18-12 and 4-13-13. (That is not a back to back breeding) Funny how no one can remember the mother's actual call name and keeps calling her Luna!! Proof people…..real proof…..before you put your foot in your mouth.

The so called “Good Authority” from which all this information has been fed was suspended from AKC in the past, published as applying and then never seen on a membership roster for a Siberian club, bred dogs without health screenings, used GC to further her own show career and threatened GC with the AKC to try and get GC to sign off co-owned dogs. I have seen emails, AKC emails/document and have had my own personal experience with this “Good Authority”. I fell for the explanations as well!! My first moment of doubt was when I was shown a transfer form that had a signature trying to be passed off as GC. I just happened to have GC true signature with me on my dog’s paperwork and it was not the same!! I have been closer to this situation than I wanted to be and know more than most should. Due to litigation and the AKC investigation I am not at liberty to tell all but I felt someone should say something even if I am burned at the stake for it!! there is always two sides to a story and no one has been telling it!!

I do not have any experience or opinion either way of GC, however I would say that if you are involved in some kind of litigation, it's probably safer not to discuss this on a public forum until it is resolved. I'm not sure what the law is though, or how you are party to it, I could be totally wrong there. I'm not trying to chastise you or disagree with what you said. I'm totally neutral on the matter. I will say, after following this thread, I will be interested to see what, if anything, comes to light from the investigation. Again, I'm neutral on the matter, and on the opposite coast.

Jen- no worries.  What is being investigated isn't mentioned in entirety here.  The rest is just observations and personal experience.  But I hear what you are saying  I just think that before people decide to buy from whoever they should have a full picture before them.  I do not suggest breeders that do not meet or exceed the ethical breeding guidelines as set forth by the SHCA and are in good standing with the SHCA.  I have learned the hard way more than once what that gets you....and really, I started out as a 'lowly' pet owner who never thought I'd be involved with the things I am now wishing I had more sound dogs to play with.  I do not, nor will I ever, regret any of my dogs for who or what they turned out like...but if I had it to do over again things may be very different.  This is something that I discussed with Respectthewoowoo in detail.  We both felt that having to start over and over and over until we get where we want to be isn't effective either.  When you have a goal, and a drive, you don't want to be filling your kennel space with things that take you away from that goal...but I can't bring myself to be so cold as others have suggested to me to 'take them back and drop them on the breeders doorstep'.  Once they are here they are family, you don't just abandon family because things happen that you didn't expect.

Breeding practices do in large depend on what camp you belong to.  I am of the belief that a back to back breeding can be beneficial to the bitch....though repeated over 5-6 times is not.  I don't believe they should be bred every heat especially if they do not recover well from rearing the litter.  Had I known Starry was going to be bred 4 consecutive times I probably would have had second thoughts.  Though it was at my mentor's urging to look at their mentor's lines to get what I wanted.  Admittedly my thoughts of what I wanted have changed since- regardless the flaws that my two girls have are not 'slow maturing' issues, flaws that you yourself have seen.  Nor was Starry (my girls' dam and a different bitch than the previously mentioned Luna) a small bitch by any stretch of the imagination- the size behind her lines contributed to her litter prior all being top of the standard.  If anything the 'size' issue stems from the stud dog- which is surprising since that dog is behind Denali as well and he's not a small male- he's a moderate male at best.  My girls are not the only midgets produced of HIS lines though.

As for the stud dog issue- I suppose when you see yourselves as friends first there is little need for a paper contract.  But there was discussions of which bitches would be approved and which should not be bred with that male.  The same discussion I know you had regarding your females and a different stud dog of that kennel.  Each dog has its faults, and you know the key is not doubling up on those faults.  If it were such a non-issue, why were we lied to- to our faces no less- about who's progeny they were when we saw the litter?  The litter was on the ground the same time my girls' litter was, we evaluated both litters.  If it were an accident, that discussion would have been an easy one to have.

As far as the main complainant being suspended from the AKC, that's true, but really a non-issue in my mind.  You know that I agree with you on the issues of lack of health testing there as well.  But regardless, you know why and you know they were immediately reinstated with an apology from the AKC (of which I have seen).  How does that happen?  Perhaps you should share both sides of that story as well-  I know you have a personal stake in making sure the main complainant looks bad, after all she made you look a fool (or at least that's how you spin your story) with your own breeding dealings with that kennel.  It would be best to make sure your own house is clean before judging others.

As far as I'm concerned they can both keep doing what they are doing- I will no longer be a part to it any more- I have said my piece of what I have seen directly and let the chips fall where they may.

respectthewoowoo wrote:

Due to litigation and the AKC investigation I am not at liberty to tell all but I felt someone should say something even if I am burned at the stake for it!! there is always two sides to a story and no one has been telling it!!

In my previous comment I was referring to this btw, just to clarify. Lani - I commend you for standing firm on your beliefs and sharing that knowledge with others. I think I'm too far from the situation to have a judgement either way. If the investigation was suspended, hopefully that means they came to an agreement to change some practices and will go forward from there.

I started this thread because I had a question. In my personal experience, I discovered it was just my impatience that led to that question and I wanted to post what happened. For MY perspective. That’s all. I never called anyone a liar, I never publicly called anyone out, and I never said anyone was wrong. I wanted to finish a thread that I started. Period.

We could argue all day about the value of eye and hip testing, breeding practices, AKC vs. parent clubs, racing and breeding kennels and on and on and on. But don’t drag me into hard feelings, past issues, and general drama just because I post that I had a good experience with a breeder. And I sure am not going to continue justifying how/why I chose them either.

If I offended anyone or sounded rude than I apologize, as that was truly not my intention. All one has to do is ask what I meant by something and I will clarify. The written word, no matter how eloquently or simply written, can often be misinterpreted if you don’t know the writer, imagine the wrong voice inflection, etc. I’m not a published writer so if I fall short of specificity, forgive me.

And isn’t this ironic: Timon says “Hakuna Matatah” (which means “no worries”) and my husband always tells me “no worries, mon!”…but the latter sounds patronizing.

Now ladies, if you will all excuse me, life is way to short, it's a beautiful Friday afternoon, and as yet another famous person recently said, "I ain't got no worries!"

Lani - I am glad we are on the same page with this matter!! I had hoped so but was not sure per your previous posts!! You are as frustrated as I!!
Jen- my statement before does not talk about the matters in litigation or the AKC investigation which is still active. It is simply in addition to the issue's I can not talk about and my personal experience!!