jalepeno wrote:

Eric, you've got to have heard about the teenagers who shot the hiker on Sauk Mt. near Marblemount because she looked like a bear. They had every right to do so. It was hunting season after all. But it didn't turn out too well for them. Or maybe this farmer in Oregon who trapped a husky, and then shot him. He had every right to do so. But things didn't turn out too well for him either...
http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2011/01/east_multnomah_county_organic.html

As a previous poster stated, we live in a shoot first country. If people insist on their right to kill animals just because they can, they're going to have to live with the consequences of their idiocy.

That's is awful about the guy shooting the dog in the cage....

anastasiya'smom wrote:

jalepeno wrote:

Eric, you've got to have heard about the teenagers who shot the hiker on Sauk Mt. near Marblemount because she looked like a bear. They had every right to do so. It was hunting season after all. But it didn't turn out too well for them. Or maybe this farmer in Oregon who trapped a husky, and then shot him. He had every right to do so. But things didn't turn out too well for him either...
http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2011/01/east_multnomah_county_organic.html

As a previous poster stated, we live in a shoot first country. If people insist on their right to kill animals just because they can, they're going to have to live with the consequences of their idiocy.

That's is awful about the guy shooting the dog in the cage....

Yeah, that IS horrible. He knew it was somebody's dog, yet he knowingly killed somebody's dog when it was doing nothing wrong at the time. I would think that counts as theft and damage of one's property, atleast, because the dog obviously belonged to someone.

Michael,
I cannot access that link via mobile device, so I can't read up on the details, but I'd like to think there is a clear difference between shooting a loose animal and having trapped the animal, and proceeding to kill it, rather than calling Animal Services.

As for the incident at Marblemount, we heard all about that, and it was very unfortunate. However, being on the mountain, in public lands, different rules apply than on a persons private property. Tragic accident that it was, you have a responsibility when you are bearing a firearm in public to do so safely.

I would never argue for the killing of an animal simply because you possess the ability to end it's life. However, when you're on your own property, protecting your own possessions, wether its a dog, a coyote, a moose, or a human threatening them, and you've given a warning, you are justified, by law to use lethal force, and I believe at that point, you are morally justified to make that decision as well.

Also, I didn't mean to sound defensive. I just live with the chore of having to put down coyotes, and protect our animals, and totally feel for the farmer, especially since I have to check if panzer is inside before I shoot toward a silhoutte, because she looks so damn similar in bad light.

K9_Eric wrote:

Michael,
I cannot access that link via mobile device, so I can't read up on the details, but I'd like to think there is a clear difference between shooting a loose animal and having trapped the animal, and proceeding to kill it, rather than calling Animal Services.

As for the incident at Marblemount, we heard all about that, and it was very unfortunate. However, being on the mountain, in public lands, different rules apply than on a persons private property. Tragic accident that it was, you have a responsibility when you are bearing a firearm in public to do so safely.

I would never argue for the killing of an animal simply because you possess the ability to end it's life. However, when you're on your own property, protecting your own possessions, wether its a dog, a coyote, a moose, or a human threatening them, and you've given a warning, you are justified, by law to use lethal force, and I believe at that point, you are morally justified to make that decision as well.

EDIT: Nevermind, ignore this post..

I think I'll stop now.
I've made my point; you've made yours, and we disagree.

Funny, but on the hiking forum where I also post, the most heated arguments are about guns and dogs too.

Damned Portlanders, with their cool heads and rational solutions

For what it's worth... as much as we are a shoot first ask questions later... I also think that were a judge first, ask questions later nation.

It's INCREDIBLY hard to judge anyone based on these articles that we see. I don't like hearing that cops shooting dogs is a widespread problem just because that's all that the media reports. What about the millions of cops who do good things for animals and pets? That handle them properly. We never hear about those.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions on it, but it really discourages me to see how judgmental we get of people in these situations when we really have NO idea what has truly transpired.

Rest In Peace, young pup. Run Free.

Its a very sad situation. I would think that as a farmer, I would like to know the animals in my neighborhood. I grew up in FL on a big piece of land and we kept rabbits in the back yard. We didn't have a fenced in yard and a neighbor had a couple pits that they never tied up. They came into our yard several times, once to chase my mom (she tried to scare them away and the female lunged at her), another time to follow me in the garage (she didn't growl at me, I really think she wanted attention) and the last time they knocked over our rabbit cages (they were steel cages on a wooden stand) and broke my rabbit's foot. My dad walked down to the house, told them to keep the dogs chained up or they wouldn't have dogs anymore (my brother was two at the time and we didn't know how they were with children). Well they didn't listen to my dad and the dogs came back. My neighbor shot and killed them.

That being said, its still extremely said. Since the dog had been seen on the land before, as the farmer I would want to find out what it was and then ask the owner to keep it locked up. And seeing as how shooting at it didn't scare it away, I would've tried to catch it and then call animal control. Because if its not scared of people, someone must be feeding it right? And if it showed up several times and only killed one duck, then its obviously not a starving wolf or coyote. Shootings happen a lot, my grandpa's german shepard was mistaken for a skunk one early morning by a neighbor and was shot in the butt. The dog lived, but we could never touch his butt. In a country that is pro-gun (which I am) you need to be prepared for these things.

But the article was crap. Not enough info to judge anything. The dog could've slipped its collar (happens a lot, I housed a lab for a night for this reason) and then escaped and there's nothing anyone could've done about that. Hopefully everyone learns from the situation, that's all we can ask for. Run free little husky!

Just curious actually would it be so difficult to trap/tranquilize a dog, wolf, coyote, etc?

I've never grown up around a farm and I only know a bit about hunting but I was kind of thinking is it just like a big pain in the butt to try and do so if your livestock is being attacked or hunted. I like guns, even have a license (I'm more of a knife man though :p) I always figured a non-lethal approach would be taken first (I'm not talking about warning shots, they don't count in my book) before shooting something.

If I saw a coyote, I could spend a few days trying to trap it or tranq it on my property. It might kill a dog, or a chicken or a pup in the process, but eventually I would catch it. Then I could call Animal Services, and they would either come waste tax money driving it to the same woods and releasing it, so that I can repeat the process, they euthanize it themselves, or they tell me I can shoot it myself. Either way, I'm not putting animals under my care at more risk than neccesary, and that means the cheap, effective solution is to kill it. Especially since coyotes are overly common in my area.

My house mates and I discussed this at dinner last night. Mostly we decided the farmer was doing what they thought they had to do, and that in those circumstances we would have acted the same way. We did grow up in rural areas, around farms and woods and wild animals, though. I think its just difference in how you're raised depending on where you grew up.

Quote :

Just curious actually would it be so difficult to trap/tranquilize a dog, wolf, coyote, etc?

Sedation isn't a go to for all ranchers. Too much and you kill the animal anyways, and too little and you do nothing but sting a wolf and maybe give him a buzz for an hour (Or piss him off real good).

They also don't have cages equipped to keep a wolf after they have trapped it so they just logically chose the simplest course of action.

There was actually a really decent documentary I watched on this.

I believe it was Wolves in Paradise.

Wolves in Paradise - IMDB

It dealt with the plight of the ranchers and Wolves 10 years after the reintroduction of Gray Wolves into the Yelowstone National Park.

They would migrate out of the park as they grew in numbers to set up new Packs as is normal for them to do. This however lead to livestock being killed off and farmers getting pissed about it because of what happened.


Honestly the way the documentary portrayed it Most of the Ranchers try or tried to use non lethal means always or at the beginning of the problem. The problem was how smart and stubborn the wolves actually were when hungry.

Even the animals specialist, whom Yellowstone supplied to educate the ranchers on what they could do and supply them with non leathal means, (Rubber bullets, Bean bag Guns, Non leathal scatter shot, ect.) told them:

"You got to really make it hurt or they will just come back again"


It's a catch 22 sadly. As we expand our count and the area in which we live or use for resources we have to take it away from something. Sadly few things can stand up to our basic level of technology.

These guys are just out trying to make a living, and every animal they lose is money (Or at times even a full contract) out of their pocket. When push comes to shove something always has to give, and they have every right to protect their product, land, and selves.

It doesn't make it morally right however.

~Chris~

RIP little pup! You are in a much better place, I promise.

^ I cant tell you how many times Ive heard the "its a wolf right?" line. Damn near gets me angry at consecutively saying the same "not its a siberian husky" line. Ive met real wolves and in my opinion, although very similar body type, huskies do not look like wolves to me to the point where I can mistake one for a wolf. No way. If anyone has ever met a wolf, Im sure youd say the same thing, not to mention eye color is just wrong. From far away though, I guess perhaps one can easily mistake for a wolf.

I feel bad for the dog, but as others said, owners irresponsible and dog had no collar. The battle between wolves and farmers is an ongoing one for centuries.