"Specs".........Really??????? Reputable breeders do not breed for eye color. They try to breed to a standard which encompasses temperament and good structural integrity, thereby reducing chances of genetic disorders in the breed. This is a living animal we are talking about....not a car. End of rant.

beck3465 wrote:

"Specs".........Really??????? Reputable breeders do not breed for eye color. They try to breed to a standard which encompasses temperament and good structural integrity, thereby reducing chances of genetic disorders in the breed. This is a living animal we are talking about....not a car. End of rant.

Well said. Unfortunately to way too many people it's just a possession, hence why the shelters are full.

Please remember in attempting to remain clear and professional, sometimes even the most well-intentioned members can come off sounding a bit cold and distant. It is not my belief that this OP doesn't see a dog as a loving companion.

This thread is honestly starting to make me ashamed. When did we become so judgmental and unwilling to help? There's an easy way to politely correct someone's word usage without insinuating that they are heartless.

Everyone needs to watch their tone--I don't feel that I should have to start issuing public warnings, but if I need to start making an example of people, I will.

And to the OP-- I hope we have given you enough information to help you. Please continue to post any questions that you may have without fear of being judged unfairly.

Koda wrote:

Please remember in attempting to remain clear and professional, sometimes even the most well-intentioned members can come off sounding a bit cold and distant. It is not my belief that this OP doesn't see a dog as a loving companion.

This thread is honestly starting to make me ashamed. When did we become so judgmental and unwilling to help? There's an easy way to politely correct someone's word usage without insinuating that they are heartless.

Everyone needs to watch their tone--I don't feel that I should have to start issuing public warnings, but if I need to start making an example of people, I will.

And to the OP-- I hope we have given you enough information to help you. Please continue to post any questions that you may have without fear of being judged unfairly.

Thank you I've found a 5month years old Puppy with what I'm looking for in NY, I don't understand how did this post turned negatively toward specs vs shelter, I just want a pet that'll feel like my childhood friend, if you can't relate to that, then its your deal not mine, I'm not trying to be disrespectful just making a point.
thank you who referred me to some great breeders, I'll keep you posted about my new puppy's experience, best of luck.

Where in NY?

I do not feel I was being disrespectful. Re-homing of Huskies has become a serious problem. Many BYB's are encouraged to tout eye and coat color due to a public who is interested in appearance only. Eye and coat color doesn't matter if a dog can't run due to bad hips, or who can't see due to cataracts, or who can't be trusted around children or other animals due to a fearful temperament. The OP is not new to owning a Husky, so questioning "specs" regarding eye and coat color do not seem disrespectful. Sorry if my post seemed disrespectful.....not my intention at all, but rather a statement of my frustration at the plight that hundreds of Huskies find themselves in to date due to an uninformed public.

Southpaw - check out petfinder.com - you can see some of the husky rescues on there around the country, very handy. Here's the national site, but they don't list all dogs : http://www.siberianrescue.com/sibrescu.htm
Facebook is a great place to connect with rescues, they usually post up upcoming dog there first. There are many papered dogs that are owner surrendered(They usually don't pass on those papers since they don't want people "flipping dogs" for more money) In fact, our local rescues have even had owner surrenders from regular folks AND celebrities who paid thousands for their dogs.

Let Tori know where in NY, that's where she lives! Maybe we can make a love connection! Keep us in the loop - so exciting!

beck3465 wrote:

I do not feel I was being disrespectful. Re-homing of Huskies has become a serious problem. Many BYB's are encouraged to tout eye and coat color due to a public who is interested in appearance only. Eye and coat color doesn't matter if a dog can't run due to bad hips, or who can't see due to cataracts, or who can't be trusted around children or other animals due to a fearful temperament. The OP is not new to owning a Husky, so questioning "specs" regarding eye and coat color do not seem disrespectful. Sorry if my post seemed disrespectful.....not my intention at all, but rather a statement of my frustration at the plight that hundreds of Huskies find themselves in to date due to an uninformed public.

Why do we feel the need to make every new person with those types of questions the brunt of our "frustration with the plight of rescued huskies" in a way that makes them seem like they are doing something wrong?

Why is telling that person, "Reputable breeders will not breed for eye color or coat type. They will breed for hips, eyes, temperament and conformation. Breeders who claim they will breed for such things are only adding to the pet population and the number of huskies dying in shelters." such a big deal?

Misguided perspectives don't make people bad. They make them uneducated. We educate here. We don't crucify.

Your post WAS disrespectful the moment you insinuated that the OP had anything but honorable intentions. We aren't guilty until proven innocent and the OP said or did nothing to indicate that he didn't want to love and respect his future dog. THAT'S why I have a problem.

I think most of us who got a dog from a breeder originally had specs. I had them with my first and everyone knows for years I held out for a piebald, but it didn't happen and Ro fell into my life unexpectedly. I don't think having a preference is uncommon or makes you a bad potential owner. They did want it from a respectable breeder, and didn't want to just take the first B&W bieyed male he saw. And I'm sure if he ended up struggling to find what he wanted, that expectation would drop. Half the forum says they want a red next, same thing. Most will rescue, but rescue is just not for everyone and people have that right to want what they want. As long as they aren't contributing to BYBs, it's all gravy.

I feel that the term 'specs' is a bit misleading...it sounds completely impersonal, like shopping for your next car not a life long companion. We don't have 'specs' when we have our children, yet we love them when they arrive. I think it's important to stress the fact that breeders that are ethical and responsible will not guarantee eye color, coat color, mask pattern, etc. What they can ensure is the health and quality behind their dogs providing proper care in screening the lineage has been taken and they actually do something with their dogs besides breed them. There is a big difference between health tested lines that reach over 5 generations with CHs in recent lineage vs. a breeding kennel that is hanging their hat on a CH buried 8 generations back because there has been nothing done with the dogs in that line since that dog.

This person is wanting a companion animal there is nothing wrong with suggesting rescue, especially when they are wanting something that can only be determined once they reach adulthood (mask pattern), a running partner (which nixes puppy for at least a year), and has a busy lifestyle (perhaps more suited for an adult vs having to adjust a puppy to the lifestyle). The motivation behind wanting Champion lineage has yet to be determined (unless I missed it) and for me that would be a question mark out there. I can appreciate if the OP is searching for healthy dogs to purchase a puppy from, but just because they have CH lineage doesn't guarantee that they are healthy or quality or if they aren't CH make them any less so if the kennel is geared more toward a working dog vs. show dog.
Just some food for thought-

To be clear: no one is being chastised for suggesting rescue (indeed, even I suggested rescue would be the best option it seemed). What I am dismayed at seeing are the negative and accusatory tones we are throwing around without due cause. As Heather and Lani said, there's nothing wrong with having preferences, so long as those preferences aren't being chosen over going with a reputable breeder.

I don't want to see innocent people on this board get flamed for being uneducated... for ANY reason.

SouthPaw- Just a friendly heads up When I was looking for my show male, I contacted Kristari Siberians, a very well known show kennel. I told them what I was really interested was a black and white male, with a bar mask and brown eyes. They told me that they could try and give me what I wanted, but that's not usually how they work. They take all your information, including lifestyle, dogs already in the house, ect. and will pick the dog for you, what would be the best fit for your family.

I always believe in, you don't pick the dog, the dog picks you.


Good luck on your search though

When I purchased Skyla from a show kennel the breeder made the decision as to which pup would be a good match for my circumstances. Coat and eye color were not considerations, but sex was. I wanted a female....which worked out fine since all puppies in the litter were female. During the past year on this forum much was made of a BYB on the East coast who markets puppies based solely on eye and coat color. I cannot support that kind of marketing.... nor will I. My personal preference is obtaining puppies from reputable breeders. I am retired with less disposable income so I choose to try to decrease odds of having to pay for potential health problems which arise from rescue dogs. In the past I have had rescue dogs also with good success. To each his own.

No one is marketing dogs on here based on coat or eye color, but if a potential owner has a preference for those things, that does not mean they are a bad person. This potential owner made it very clear they wanted a GOOD breeder and to get a happy, healthy puppy. They were not going to settle on a half-assed breeder. They wanted a breeder that does the proper health tests and has a show kennel with titles. They didn't go more into that, and we didn't ask them if they were aware the dogs need to be 2, to ensure the breeder breeders a max of twice a year, yadda yadda yadda all the stuff they should be looking into. We just jumped on "look at a rescue" (which IS obviously a good recommendation if you are wanting a dog with a specific mask especially, because the puppy's mask changes so much) and getting on them about specs. They just wanted some help on breeders. They are brand new to this forum. I know I can get nasty sometimes and can't claim I'm a bundle of sunshine to everyone, but what sucks about going into attack mode on someone who just joined, looking for some help, is they are not going to find anyone helpful- moreso judgemental, close-minded, ignorant (I am not saying anyone *is* these things, just that that is how it can be interpreted when this is the first time someone is reading a post from you) and feel bullied, and thus they will take their leave and not come back for help when they get that puppy/dog, and there is a lot of helpful information and people here they could benefit from. Compared to a lot of people, the OP was very laidback and respectful of what everyone said. I know I would be upset and hurt if I got the feeling everyone thinks all I care about is having a black dog with bieyes and that nothing more matters to me, and I would have defended myself and been a lot more aggressive. I have to give the OP props for that, as it's not very common.

I get why everyone gets passionate about this stuff, we all love the dogs. But when we see someone we may think needs a little "enlightment," the best thing for us to do is give accurate facts and information, and try to give them a big of educating without it coming off as a personal attack on them and their actions.. more of a "the more you know" sort of approach.

This person is probably not going to post again. They seem to have found what they were looking for and I doubt will want to come and ask any questions after receiving their pup. So I guess we just let this topic die, but I just wanted to express my thoughts on how passionate dog lovers who just wants things to be "done right" can come across to someone who has never been on here before.

All you can do is give people another (respectful) perspective and insight on things. If they want to take it, that's awesome, if not, you did your part and you can't stop someone from making their own choices.

....

I'm sorry heather I was just picking my jaw up off the floor!

So I just figured I would add on the subject of being a college student with a puppy. We adopted Anna the summer of our freshman year of college, we are sophomores now, and to be honest this was probably the only reason we could have pulled it off. We would not have been able to easily run back and forth between classes and to take her potty every two hours. Anna can now hold it while we are gone for class at a maximum of 5 hours a day, if we are gone that long. We play with and walk Anna during all the free time we have and study when she is sleeping. It is not easy raising a puppy as a college student but it can be done. If I were you I assume you have a month off for Christmas break and I would try to get the puppy as soon as break starts to work on potty training and crate training while you are not trying to study for exams. No the pup might not be completely trained by the end of the break but it will be easier than all this training on top of final exam time. If you want to wait longer I say wait till the start of summer.

I will say that when I was looking into getting a Husky pup I wanted blue eyes, not that there is anything wrong with any other color it's just we have a thing for blue eyes. IMO having an idea of what you want your puppy to look like isn't a bad thing but not giving a puppy or adult dog a chance because they aren't perfect is a little different. I had no idea we were going to get a red pup, she was actually one of the last of her litter and I fell in love. It didn't matter what color she was or the eyes she had I just knew when I picked her up and held her on the way home she was my new best friend and that I'd love her with all my heart.

I say look into all your options, there are a lot of great breeders, unlike ours, and a lot of great shelter dogs. I am ashamed to say we didn't do much research, but joining this forum I now know what I should have looked for. I give you lots of credit for doing your research and looking for help as I should have done. Just get the puppy or adult that is perfect for you, you will know when you see them and it won't matter if their color isn't exactly this or that I can promise you that.

Hey, you know I can be nice! I don't always stir the pot!

Heather! wrote:

Hey, you know I can be nice! I don't always stir the pot!

You must be getting old.

Man you guys, see if I'm ever the reasonable one again. I'm going to end up losing the bad rep I've built the past 4 years, can't have that :p

I got Kale when I was in college, though I did bring him to school with me, I think it is very doable. You just have to be determined and make time, and if the OP is willing to fly to meet the dam and sire, I'd say that is pretty serious.

With the tone of this thread, I would have been reamed and extremely hurt if I would have joined right after getting Kale. I found him on Ebay and drove 45 mins to get him the next day. Not exactly the most ideal, but I think I am an excellent Husky/dog owner. And I WANTED a puppy. So I try not to judge when it comes to finding a dog. You never know if you are the best thing that has (and ever will) happened to them. Yes I supported a BYB, but Kale would be dead right now if I hadn't have brought him home with me that day. Just my

Hope you find an excellent pup that fits your personality

It looks like this is winding down - but I think it is important to state that show breeders, even ethical ones DO breed for eye color and coat color. But not in the way you assume. They breed for browns and bi eyes - as those appear smaller and a smaller, almond eye protects the dog from getting filled with snow and ice. You will see less blue eyes, not because of ethics, but because judges simply don't like them. A blue eye looks rounder, which looks out of standard, but it's an illusion. So yes, breeders do breed for eye color, but not the one commonly wanted. In fact, I see a lot of variations of browns and bi eyes, with a few parti-eyes in there. Blue is very rare, but DOES occur. A very nice dog, Karnovanda's Lightning Rod has two Blue eyes with a nice full mask and he is black and white. I watched him destroy the competition this past Saturday. Blue eyes and Black and whites with masks, CAN be bred, but often blue eyes will not be found in a show kennel.

They also can and do breed for color. Some kennels will not keep reds in their breeding programs, as their hair burns easily and the colors fade. In fact, most reds only look good when their fur is coming in from a blow. They are high maintenance and many do not want to deal with it. Others love it. You will very rarely find pies and splash coats, as they tend to do poorly in ring. Black and Whites are common, but the most I see are greys. There are many top kennels that breed to a specific coat color. With reds, this is usually a deep copper or a very light red, as these are easiest of the red shades to maintain. Black and Whites can very from very dilute to very dense black. Grey's can be light, and almost white, or can be grey all over. It's personal preference. Every breeder has preferences. Taking a look at an ethical breeders dogs can show you what they prefer on their dogs.

It gets complicated because all breeders are breeding to standard, but there are many variations, even tail size. Most coat colors and eye colors are breeder preference and other things just pop up as luck of the draw. Breeding is very strategic and requires a decent understanding of genetics.

Ultimately, although breeding is to conform to standard, coat color and eye color are based on the preference of a breeder. They may not be breeding to what YOU want, but they are most certainly breeding for the colors they want to see and for the colors/coats that will either hide faults in the ring or accentuate features.

Guess it depends on the part of the country you live in. Here in the south central US there are way too many dogs and few if any reputable breeders. Dogs, yes purebred huskies are dying every day in shelters. Rescues are constantly full and those of us that volunteer and foster have to listen to 10's if not hundreds of pleas a day of dogs in need. I don't think a lot of people here grasp the pet overpopulation problem in certain parts of this country.

Also you don't find any reputable breeders in this part of the country. They don't screen potential owners, they certainly don't spay and neuter and most don't even vet their dogs. All these things are done by rescues. So if me or others are little over zealous about trying to point people to rescue, take a second to walk in our shoes through the shelter and decide who lives and who dies.

When you make statements about YOUR wants and desires and not the animals needs it becomes a microcosm of today's self centered me first society and not about the welfare of a living thing. Just my apparently unpopular

PS: I'm done with this thread and all those like them since

This thread sure did derail.

But to be fair Brian, I get where you're coming from, that too many people see dogs and cats as items and not lifelong partners, but keep in mind that you too have your own wants and desires when it comes to dogs and it doesn't mean you're a bad owner. Your main want, and everyone else on this forum, is to have a siberian husky over any other breed, hence you owning 4. The OP may have come across as being a little too impersonable, but you'll be hard pressed to find even great pet caretakes that didn't desire something in the particular pet they chose, or why else would they have chosen it! Like I prefer females, hence I only got females. I also prefered grey and white over black and whites (mainly cause I though a black and white would get too hot in FL soaking up all the sun) and hence why I got Elara and not one of her black and white sisters. And you really can't fault someone for wanting a puppy from health checked adults. It would be lovely if all dogs had no health problems, but there are a lot of rescues who do (I cringe when I look at one of my foster puppies, cause he back legs look very wrong and I think she may grow up with hip dysplasia) and there are people who honestly don't want to see an animal in pain if they can help it and don't want to spend the extra money treating said problem. Not saying that every animal froma reputable breeder will be 100% healthy, but at least you get the best possible head start.

Brian, you are missing the point. I happen to lean much more in your camp than I do in any other...

HOWEVER, being passionate about rescue is NOT and excuse to be rude, condescending or a dick to other members. I'm not sure where this self-righteous attitude that I'm seeing comes from, but just because we rescue does NOT mean that we get to chastise and condemn members who choose not to.

I'm not sure when we as a forum forgot Rule #1, but the more I see that, the more I WILL start banning people.

I've been watching this thread since it started and there are a lot of interesting points. I volunteer at our local shelter so I know the amount of dogs that come through there but I also went with a puppy. My reasons were for my hubby though, who has had a fear of dogs since he was little and I knew if we started off with a puppy he would get used to her and the issue would be mute. That's not to say that down the line we wont adopt a rescue, in fact our next husky will be a rescue. That being said, when we were looking for a puppy we did have desires. We wanted a female (I did actually, I prefer them) and we wanted a black/white or grey/white. My hubby wanted the blue eyes but I explained to him that we couldn't be THAT picky about it because that would make it harder for us to get our puppy. As it was we had to drive seven hours to get Karli because there are no breeders near me, that I was willing to work with anyways. I had one breeder try to talk me into a male puppy, telling me she liked their temperments more and such, only because all she had at the moment were male puppies.

I'm also a college student and work part time. Karli is alone maybe four hours out of the day because of the odd shifts I work. And all my classes are online so this was a good time for us to get a puppy. Its feasible if you are willing to make the effort in school and with the pup.

I was thinking about the breeder situation on the way to work today. I was actually nervous when I first joined the forum, because some forums out there are really anti-breeder and will attack new members for going with a breeder verses a rescue (and some of the bird forums are just downright nasty.) Volunteering at a rescue, I know the amount of dogs that come through. When we first started talking about a dog, we had considered a pit. But the issue with that is that my hubby is still active duty and if we got a pit, there was a chance we would get stationed somewhere that we couldn't keep her. I wasn't getting a dog to have for a couple years then leave behind. That's not me. So we decided on a husky. I wanted our first dog to be as healthy as possible so my hubby could see how enjoyable they are. We don't get many huskies at our shelter, more pits than anything else. My thing is, if we don't support ANY breeders, how do we better the species? The whole point of breeding (although I realize most breeders are only in it for the money) is to further the species, to better it. Can't do that if we don't support the good breeders. I liked the breeder I worked with. He only had three breeding females and one male (he had another female, but she was a pup from his first litter and not breeding.) The only thing I didn't get from him was Karli's shot record and then all I had to do was ask him. If we don't support some breeders and only rescue and say we got everyone who bought a dog to do that, breeders would go out of business yes, but then where would that leave the species (this is extreme I know)? How do you improve if you don't work on it? Besides the fact that its instinct for them to breed. There is a big ferral cat issue in SouthEastern Canada, because the cats breed. My friend's aunt has a rescue that is trying to spay and neuter them but its all on donation only and up there its pricey to do that for cats. But they just breed and breed. Its an animals instinct to procreate. I'm not saying we should let them I'm just saying its a part of them.

In my opinion, if the dog is getting a good home, why should we be upset if it wasn't a rescue. Every dog needs a good, loving home, whether its a rescue or a show dog.