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| Author | Message |
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Robinhuskylover2231 Teenager
Join date : 2012-08-11 Location : Toronto, ON
| Subject: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:20 pm | |
| Cally is 7 and a half months old and I have had her since she was 6 1/2 weeks. She lives at my boyfriends house with him but comes over to my house a few times a week to play with my pug/ sleep with me. She has always been good with him for the most part. My biggest mistake was that I let her play to rough with him and now that she's older it's not so cute when she's pulling on his skin. That is not my question though, when Cally was a puppy her and Chewy were fine eating around eachother, treats etc. They are still for the most part good about eating their dinners in the same room and not getting in trouble. The problem that I am finding lately is that they fight over treats, bones etc. For example, a couple days ago I had a couple treats in my hand and was not yet feeding any (Chewy was sleeping, Cally was doing some training) and Chewy woke up and walked by, Cally snapped at him and they started going at it, my boyfriend had to pull them apart. Then last night, I gave them each their bones on opposite sides of the room, Chewy walked by and the same thing happened. They've always been fine before and I'm just worried that this will happen when were visiting friends etc. Any advice or experiences you may have had would be helpful please. And yes, I know that I shouldn't be feeding them treats, bones etc. in the same room but they have always been good before recently.
My next question also has to do with possible agression.... Cally is great around kids, absolutely loves them and will run around and play with them. Last week, my boyfriends cousin brought her young (around 6 yrs) son to his house and she tried snapping at him, the mom told me this and I didn't believe it because I didn't see it, I thought maybe it was playful? Then he came in the room where I was and he was at least a couple feet away and she turned and snapped. She was not anywhere near him so he didn't get hurt, I just thought this was weird as she has always been great with kids. I am wondering if she smelled his dog? Or she just had a serious dislike of this boy.... I thought maybe she was trying to protect me since he came in and was sitting next to me etc... but that wouldn't explain why she did it before he even came in the room. I am completely not sure if this sounds like agression or what?...
Last edited by Robinhuskylover2231 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
| | | mbarnard0429 Senior
Join date : 2011-08-07 Location : Michigan
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:32 pm | |
| - Robinhuskylover2231 wrote:
- Cally is 7 and a half months old and I have had her since she was 6 1/2 weeks. She lives at my boyfriends house with him but comes over to my house a few times a week to play with my pug/ sleep with me. She has always been good with him for the most part. My biggest mistake was that I let her play to rough with him and now that she's older it's not so cute when she's pulling on his skin. That is not my question though, when Cally was a puppy her and Chewy were fine eating around eachother, treats etc. They are still for the most part good about eating their dinners in the same room and not getting in trouble. The problem that I am finding lately is that they fight over treats, bones etc. For example, a couple days ago I had a couple treats in my hand and was not yet feeding any (Chewy was sleeping, Cally was doing some training) and Chewy woke up and walked by, Cally snapped at him and they started going at it, my boyfriend had to pull them apart. Then last night, I gave them each their bones on opposite sides of the room, Chewy walked by and the same thing happened. They've always been fine before and I'm just worried that this will happen when were visiting friends etc. Any advice or experiences you may have had would be helpful please. And yes, I know that I shouldn't be feeding them treats, bones etc. in the same room but they have always been good before recently.
My next question also has to do with possible agression.... Cally is great around kids, absolutely loves them and will run around and play with them. Last week, my boyfriends cousin brought her young (around 6 yrs) son to his house and she tried snapping at him, the mom told me this and I didn't believe it because I didn't see it, I thought maybe it was playful? Then he came in the room where I was and he was at least a couple feet away and she turned and snapped. She was not anywhere near him so he didn't get hurt, I just thought this was weird as she has always been great with kids. I am wondering if she smelled his dog? Or she just had a serious dislike of this boy.... I thought maybe she was trying to protect me since he came in and was sitting next to me etc... but that wouldn't explain why she did it before he even came in the room. I am completely not sure if this sounds like agression or what?... First of all, I suggest you do no longer allow bones, chews and toys with the dogs when they are in the same room. I would label this resource guarding, not aggression. The dog is protecting her things. I don't agree with it and nipping it in the bud is necessary - does she do this with you? I suggest you research NOthing In Life Is Free Training, simply because it will help with resource guarding in general. As far as between dogs, I really think prevention is the best. Don't let them eat in the same room or chew bones in the same room. Just my opinion. Did the kid do something to her that may have caused the aversion? Did he pull her tail or poke her eye? I doubt a child friendly dog would just become sassy over nothing, but stranger things have happened. Just my two cents. |
| | | MyKeeonah Teenager
Join date : 2012-01-28 Location : OR
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:40 pm | |
| ^^ Agreed with the mis-labeling. It seems that very recently, any sort of behavior that does not seem angelic, is being labeled as "aggression". This can make thread titles and descriptions really mis-leading to newer members. my is that there needs to be a sticky made regarding the real definition and symptoms of different occurances such as: rough play, resource guarding, vocalization, and actual aggression. It just starts becoming really difficult when someone says, "my dog is being really aggressive, he keeps running in circles and howling really loud". It's like dude, take your dog outside and play with him, he's wound up and excited, he isn't about to eat you. People want to chime in and try to help, but the reality is, some of the people giving advice don't know any better than the OP who wants real help with what they perceive as a problem from people who are truly knowledgeable on the subject. /rant. sorry for , but it does get really frustrating when you read a thread asking for help about a mis-labeled issue, and all the people jump on and say things that make you Regarding the OP's question though, I think megan definitely has you on the right track. Eating in different rooms, or at different times (one waits in the crate while the other eats, then switch) is a smart idea. As far as toys, i would start alll over. Remove all the toys that either dog may have labeled as their own, go get one toy, set it between them, and let them play. as soon as one gets sassy about sharing. correct the behavior with a no, then let em start again. If you are consistent enough, and on top of it right when it happens, I am willing to bet that both dogs can be conditioned to accept that the toy belongs to both of them, and they get a stern talking to if they try it any other way. With something like resource guarding, the trainer (that's you) can't be afraid to insert their dominance sternly, and forcefully. The dogs have to understand that ultimately, everything is provided by you. |
| | | Robinhuskylover2231 Teenager
Join date : 2012-08-11 Location : Toronto, ON
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:50 pm | |
| I apologize for the mislabelling although I tried my best to be descriptive in the behaviour occurring.
Since the incident last night I have stopped feeding them bones/ treats in the same room. I just worry as I sometimes take her to play with my friends dogs and they have bones all over and I would not want this to happen there. I do use the Nothing in life is free method although I didn't have a name for it before, it's just how I trained Cally.
As far as I know, which I honestly cannot say for sure is that the little boy did not touch her at all and she bit at him (first time grazing skin, not breaking it) and then 2 more times snapping at him (not being near him, just snapping at him)
Once again I apologize for my unclear thread title and initial post mislabel ^ |
| | | mbarnard0429 Senior
Join date : 2011-08-07 Location : Michigan
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:58 pm | |
| Don't apologize, you didn't do anything wrong, just use it for future reference - I doubt she is telling the full story about the child. Parent's have a way of doing that.
Tell your friends that the bones and toys must be ppicked up or you will not be over - easy as pie.
are they okay without the bones? and does she do this with you? |
| | | MyKeeonah Teenager
Join date : 2012-01-28 Location : OR
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:01 pm | |
| - Robinhuskylover2231 wrote:
- I apologize for the mislabelling although I tried my best to be descriptive in the behaviour occurring.
Since the incident last night I have stopped feeding them bones/ treats in the same room. I just worry as I sometimes take her to play with my friends dogs and they have bones all over and I would not want this to happen there. I do use the Nothing in life is free method although I didn't have a name for it before, it's just how I trained Cally.
As far as I know, which I honestly cannot say for sure is that the little boy did not touch her at all and she bit at him (first time grazing skin, not breaking it) and then 2 more times snapping at him (not being near him, just snapping at him)
Once again I apologize for my unclear thread title and initial post mislabel ^ There is no need to apologize! my frustration had a lot less to do with your post, and a lot more to do with how many times i have seen the word "aggression" on these forums lately, only to find that the issue is actually very small and very correctable. I will continue to advocate NILIF, as will most every person on these forums. Make them earn everything. make them sit before going through doors, make them wait for their food until you say it's okay, obviously make them earn treats. The goal of NILIF is for the dog to basically not do anything without first looking to you for consent and guidance. Obviously, there are situations that are unforseen, like your pup and the little boy. In situations like that, you have to take the situation at face value. What do you know. You know that your dog just snapped at a little boy. What else do you know? that under NO circumstances should that EVER happen. Even if the boy may have deserved it. So you gotta be on that like stink on poo. If it were me personally and i witnessed the snap, I would have had a hand around the muzzle instantly, staring at her and barking no, putting the fear of god into her. my dog knows me. She knows that if i do that to her, she did something really bad. If i take action right as it happens, she can associate the unpleasant scolding with what she just did. That is where consistency comes in. If you take care of the situation the best you can, you are better prepared for the next encounter. |
| | | Robinhuskylover2231 Teenager
Join date : 2012-08-11 Location : Toronto, ON
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:02 pm | |
| They are perfectly fine without the bones, other than the occasional "too rough puppy playing" as I mentioned above but she is still a puppy and she usually stops if I tell her no. They are currently sleeping side by side by the front door. She has never done anything like this to me so I feel you are probably right about the guarding. I will tell my friend to do this as I don't want it to become an issue for play dates |
| | | Robinhuskylover2231 Teenager
Join date : 2012-08-11 Location : Toronto, ON
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:08 pm | |
| thank you for the advice, it is really helpful to have other husky owners to talk to. As for the little boy, I did not see anything happen the first couple times but the last time when he just got up from the couch to walk out she turned and snapped. I immediately scolded her and held her muzzle closed as you said above Sean. But as you have said, I have no idea what occured before this last time. Also, Cally works for everything (NILIF) I have always made her sit before walking out the door, I frequently took her bowl away while she was eating etc. when she was a puppy, I make her sit before leaving the house and after entering the house. But I will read into it so I can obtain better knowledge of this as I was doing all of the above but never had a name for it. |
| | | mbarnard0429 Senior
Join date : 2011-08-07 Location : Michigan
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:13 pm | |
| Yep - I agree with Sean. I solved nipping with Cato with a firm muzzle grab and a strong NO. I would never allow toys or bones our whenever other dogs come over unless it is long term and they are picked up when they are not in use. For examplye, we had Kevo and Niraya over with their huskies - no toys necessary and they were put up where the dogs couldn't reach them. We had very few spats despite the fact that Kevin and I both have dominant females, after Cali realized it was Delilah's house, they were good. Even shared my lap one night. Dogs aren't rational like us - they don't know that you aren't going to take their things or that your pug isn't either. You just have to prevent the issue With children, perhaps avoiding young children all together would be a good option. Just my opinion, but its a risk I won't take. if Delilah snapped at a child, she'd be put in the bedroom until people left. I don't want to risk a bite because that could have seriously repercussions..Thankfully she is good with children and I don't ever have young ones in my home. |
| | | MyKeeonah Teenager
Join date : 2012-01-28 Location : OR
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:17 pm | |
| it really sounds like you are making the right effort there, and that's good. You are right on track, but sometimes people will say something about "steeping up their NILIF training", which basically means becoming a drill sergeant lol. Consistency is really the biggest key here. Never even give em an inch! It sounds like your Cally really has a good disposition, and I don't want to dismiss her behavior too easily, but to be so generally good, and have one issue with only 1 specific little boy, points to a negative experience with said boy. Makes the most sense to me. Just be consciously aware of her around all kids, and that boy specifically, and you should be just fine Megan has a point, about avoiding kids altogether...but i would maybe disagree a little bit about total isolation from kids, and would suggest stepping up the socialization, because if you take your dog everywhere like i do, odds are she will be exposed to many more kids moving forward. I think the best thing i ever did for keeonah's socialization was take her to the park by my house, put her on a tie out, and let every single kid that wanted to play with her have a go. Always one at the time, and they always made her sit for one of her favorite zuke's treats first as a peace offering, but over time, with my supervision, she got used to the little munchkins goin nuts around her. |
| | | Robinhuskylover2231 Teenager
Join date : 2012-08-11 Location : Toronto, ON
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:19 pm | |
| I completely agree with the above and I will be avoiding bones and such when they are together now, it was just a recent thing that started even though Cally has been here and around my pug since we got her and they have been fine. But from now on, you're right, prevention is the best.
The children thing though, I am unsure whether to not let her around them. Yes, I completely agree that it is a big risk but that is the first time that she has ever done that and she has been around a variety of children, ages 1 1/2 and up and frequently too. I used to bring her to the barn camps with children of 6+ and she loved them all. I am hoping that this will not happen again and possibly the boy aggravated it but I will most definitely be keeping a close eye/ keeping her close to me when children are around from now on.
Thank you for the suggestions and advice, I will definitely do some further research into NILIF |
| | | mbarnard0429 Senior
Join date : 2011-08-07 Location : Michigan
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:20 pm | |
| - MyKeeonah wrote:
- it really sounds like you are making the right effort there, and that's good. You are right on track, but sometimes people will say something about "steeping up their NILIF training", which basically means becoming a drill sergeant lol.
Consistency is really the biggest key here. Never even give em an inch!
It sounds like your Cally really has a good disposition, and I don't want to dismiss her behavior too easily, but to be so generally good, and have one issue with only 1 specific little boy, points to a negative experience with said boy. Makes the most sense to me. Just be consciously aware of her around all kids, and that boy specifically, and you should be just fine
Megan has a point, about avoiding kids altogether...but i would maybe disagree and step up the socialization, because if you take your dog everywhere like i do, odds are she will be exposed to many more kids. I think the best thing i ever did for keeonah's socialization was take her to the park by my house, put her on a tie out, and let every single kid that wanted to play with her have a go. Always one at the time, and they always made her sit for one of her favorite zuke's treats first as a peace offering, but over time, with my supervision, she got used to the little munchkins goin nuts around her. True, I don't disagree with you, but I think it can be different in the home than at the park. I don't really have an issue with it with my dogs, because the neighbor kids think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, so they get too much attention in my opinion. LOL Do your best and be firm, it doesn't mean be cold. Goodluck |
| | | mbarnard0429 Senior
Join date : 2011-08-07 Location : Michigan
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:21 pm | |
| - Robinhuskylover2231 wrote:
- I completely agree with the above and I will be avoiding bones and such when they are together now, it was just a recent thing that started even though Cally has been here and around my pug since we got her and they have been fine. But from now on, you're right, prevention is the best.
The children thing though, I am unsure whether to not let her around them. Yes, I completely agree that it is a big risk but that is the first time that she has ever done that and she has been around a variety of children, ages 1 1/2 and up and frequently too. I used to bring her to the barn camps with children of 6+ and she loved them all. I am hoping that this will not happen again and possibly the boy aggravated it but I will most definitely be keeping a close eye/ keeping her close to me when children are around from now on.
Thank you for the suggestions and advice, I will definitely do some further research into NILIF Right, its just what i would have done with the particular boy because it seems like she had a real aversion to him. Not what you have to do! |
| | | MyKeeonah Teenager
Join date : 2012-01-28 Location : OR
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:27 pm | |
| - mheath0429 wrote:
- I don't really have an issue with it with my dogs, because the neighbor kids think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, so they get too much attention in my opinion. LOL
Shoot, my 20-something year old friends come over and go "OH MY GOODNESS! She looks like the red one on BALTO!" soooo yeah.. no wonder my dog prances like a princess lol |
| | | mbarnard0429 Senior
Join date : 2011-08-07 Location : Michigan
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:31 pm | |
| - MyKeeonah wrote:
- mheath0429 wrote:
- I don't really have an issue with it with my dogs, because the neighbor kids think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, so they get too much attention in my opinion. LOL
Shoot, my 20-something year old friends come over and go "OH MY GOODNESS! She looks like the red one on BALTO!" soooo yeah.. no wonder my dog prances like a princess lol She IS a princess |
| | | Robinhuskylover2231 Teenager
Join date : 2012-08-11 Location : Toronto, ON
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:33 pm | |
| Thank you both for your help! Your dogs are beautiful! |
| | | mbarnard0429 Senior
Join date : 2011-08-07 Location : Michigan
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:35 pm | |
| No problem and keep up the training!
Haha my dogs are buttheads - they fool you with those pretty faces. |
| | | Koda Ms. Amicable
Join date : 2009-05-20 Location : Glenville, NY
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:40 pm | |
| A couple things I notice here:
1. Cally is 100% normal. She's 7 months old. She's entering what we call the "teenage rebellion stage." She's going to start testing her boundaries with you and other dogs. That's why it's important to practice Nothing In Life Is Free as often as possible. Make her remember that she's not the boss, you are. Good things come from you, not her. It will help reinforce the rest of your training.
2. While I agree that in the short term you should take away/avoid bones and treats with other dogs, this doesn't really do squat for the long run. In controlled circumstances (ie- at least one person for each dog), you should start training them to share. There are a couple of techniques you could use. One, practice sharing. Give them each a treat/toy and let them play with them next to each other side-by-side. After a minute, give the other dog Cally's toy, but make sure she gets something of higher value. Do this a couple of times, but make sure Cally always gets something of higher value. You want her to learn that when she shares, she gets something good. It's best to do this when both dogs are leashed and you have someone else with you.
Two: Start training Cally with the "Leave it" command. It helps you control a situation better and teaches her that she can't have everything that she wants. I trained it by holding a treat in my hand with my fist closed over it and making the dog sit. The dog naturally will nose at my fist trying to get the treat. Whenever the dog would back away (sometimes it was only very quickly- you need to catch the moment-- this is when a clicker is handy if you use one), say "Leave it! Good dog" and hand the dog a treat (try not to use the one in your hand-- it sends the wrong message). You want to catch the good behavior so that you can train it.
Training both of these things should help Cally learn to share and give things up. Lastly-- start catching her good behaviors. If she doesn't do it all the time, catch her when she walks by the other dog with a toy and ignores her. Tell her "Good girl" and treat her. In conjunction with the other training and catching the good behavior, you should have a dog who learns to share and not guard.
3. Don't avoid children. That's the worst thing you could do. Koda isn't great with kids yet, so when they are around, he is leashed at all times. If he EVER does something he's not supposed to, he's brought away from the child with the leash and isolated. When he's calm, he comes back. Cally needs exposure. The more you isolate her, the worse her behavior will be.
Also- training her resource guarding should help her behavior with kids.
Hope this helps! _________________ www.itsahuskything.com It's a husky thing... you wouldn't understand. |
| | | Robinhuskylover2231 Teenager
Join date : 2012-08-11 Location : Toronto, ON
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:48 pm | |
| Tori, definitely makes sense with treating her with something of higher value and not taking them away completely. I really appreciate everyones advice, I knew that there was a reason for coming on this forum- everyone has different opinions and different techniques which I find very helpful. I will definitely try all of the above and as I said I don't think I will keep her away from children as I would like her to be able to be around them at the barn, when I get older and choose to have children etc. |
| | | Robinhuskylover2231 Teenager
Join date : 2012-08-11 Location : Toronto, ON
| Subject: Re: Food Guarding Update Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:43 pm | |
| So I tried majority of the things listed above and especially upped my NILIF training and it seemed to help a little and I thought things were getting better...
This week, my boyfriend has his family down and Cally snapped at his grandpa and grazed his hand... (he didn't do anything, just walked in the door) and then today his aunt was reaching for his purse which was beside where Cally was eating her bone and Cally bit her and broke skin. I think it's time for some professional training... and yes I completely understand that she was guarding her bone but I still believe that is absolutely no excuse for biting anyone. |
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