My 23 week old puppy Qannik has a biting issue and what I think is a dominance issue. First, we've been trying to break him of his biting since we got him, but are not having any luck. We've done everything mentioned on this site with no luck at all. Second, lately, he is asserting his dominance over me. There have been three incidents in the last week, in which he seems to be annoyed that I'm making him do something he doesn't want to do, and he starts jumping all over me biting me. Nothing I seem to do helps, and to be quite honest, I'm at a major disadvantage when he's biting my arms, back and anything else. Also, this doesn't usually happen in the house. It usually happens in the yard or when we are out walking. For example, this morning, we were out walking, when a dog in someones house came to a door and started barking. Qannik was so excited and all he wanted to do was play with the puppy. So he plopped down in the middle of the road. Since we can't stay in the middle of the road, I gently tugged his collar, which set him off. He immediately started biting my hands. When I try to subdue him by gripping his collar, he gets worse, and then he starts jumping up at me biting. He gave me multiple bruises and scratches and even ripped my jacket. He does not do this to my husband. I love my puppy very much and I am really concerned about how to get this under control. Qannik has been in puppy classes since he was 10 weeks old, so I feel as though, we are doing everything we can to raise a great dog. We exercise him daily (he is walked an hour and a half to two hours each day). How do we go about re-establishing the pecking order in our house? This morning, I am seriously pissed off and frustrated that he did this to me again. Words of wisdom are greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Diane

have you tried grabbing the side of his neck [not hard, just firmly] and forcing him to lay down on his side while not letting go? thats what a dominant animal would do to assert his dominance over the challenger.

i do it to my pups when the start getting out of line and they get right back in line.

if he fights you, let go for a second and do it again.

lizzyduhh wrote:

have you tried grabbing the side of his neck [not hard, just firmly] and forcing him to lay down on his side while not letting go? thats what a dominant animal would do to assert his dominance over the challenger.

i do it to my pups when the start getting out of line and they get right back in line.

if he fights you, let go for a second and do it again.

I'm really concerned with this method. Forcing a dog down is not going to endear you to him. While sometimes, when a person is trained properly in "alpha rolling" (as it's called), the practice can help to calm a dog down, it is NOT something that is recommended without the help of a trained professional and in fact, I prefer to use methods that don't involve FORCING a dog to do anything. Often times, especially with a dog who is already acting up, it just increases the dog's anxiety and panic, creating a dangerous situation for the dog and owner. Please be very careful when suggesting something like this.

To the OP: two things jump out at me. One-- why are you grabbing your dog's collar when you are out on a walk? Is he not leashed? And two, what does "trying everything on this site" mean? How do we know what you have read? Can you list the methods that you have tried?

Here's what I would do. If you are not already, start practicing Nothing In Life Is Free. If you are, step it up. If your husband doesn't have the issue, then make sure YOU are ALWAYS the the one to feed your pup. Make him sit and wait for his food until you tell him it's okay to eat. Never let him get ANYTHING good (toys, food, anything of value) without working for it. Make him sit and wait before he walks out the door until you tell him to or until you walk out the door first. If he sees that you are the bearer of valuable things, he won't try to abuse or dominate your position. Right now he thinks he has the right to tell YOU what to do and you have to teach him that only people have that right.

Also, keep your dog leashed at all times. Let him drag it around (if it's a normal cloth leash, it's not a big deal). When he does something he shouldn't, grab the leash and CALMLY (even if he's freaking out) walk him to a room (the bathroom, basement garage-- something isolated from people) and leave him there until he's calm. When he's calm, CALMLY bring him back to where the people are and start again.

In the street issue, I would have taken his leash, turned around and started walking back the way we came. Don't let him think that by freaking out he gets what he wants (to be near the dog). When he freaks out, he goes back to where he was calm. When he's calm again, he can approach the other dog. Keep treats with you on walks at all times.

I prefer to try and use positive methods before I resort to force. If I do, I rarely EVER find force necessary.

Tori - My puppy is always harnessed when we are out walking. He also has his collar on. When he saw the other puppy in the doorway, he plopped down in the middle of the road and wouldn't budge. I tried to get him to keep following me on our way home, but he wasn't moving. I tried to nudge him by lightly pulling him up to his feet by his collar.

"Trying Everything" means, saying No Biting, Yelping, saying Ouch.

We currently practice NILF methods. I feed him in the morning because my husband is already at work, and my husband feeds him when he gets home because I get home later. This schedule worked while we were in the early stages of housebreaking him. We tried to plan things around his potty cycle. He's older now, so we certainly can hold off feeding him for another hour so that his second meal comes from me a well. Also, he does not get his meals until he sits. We make him sit at the door before going out and coming in.

I will try keeping him leashed in the house per your advice. We do have a time out area and we do use it. I think one thing my husband and I need to do is to be more diligent about timing him out right away when he needs it.

We really try hard to make him work for his rewards. He never gets anything without doing something good. We make him sit, give us his paw, give us a kiss...etc. We also, are using clicker training with him and he's really receptive to it. We have a private in home training session with his trainor on Thursday to help us with this issue.

I truly don't want to get into any physical punishment with Q. I don't want him to ever be afraid of me or afraid of my hands. He truly is a good puppy in every other way. He loves people, loves dogs and is a happy puppy in our house.

Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it.

djannitto wrote:

Tori - My puppy is always harnessed when we are out walking. He also has his collar on. When he saw the other puppy in the doorway, he plopped down in the middle of the road and wouldn't budge. I tried to get him to keep following me on our way home, but he wasn't moving. I tried to nudge him by lightly pulling him up to his feet by his collar.

If he's leashed, drag him until he comes. Don't look at him, don't acknowledge his tantrum. Absolutely drag him. He's what, 35 lbs at most? You're stronger than he is. By bending over and pulling on his collar, you are giving him the power. If you just turned around and walked the other way, eventually, he would have to follow.

I think you're giving into him a little too much. It sounds like when he misbehaves, you panic a little and try too hard to coax him into doing what you want. You are the leader. You are the boss. There's no question. You give a command, he obeys. No coaxing should be necessary.

And yes... if you're not timing him out right away, AS SOON as the behavior happens, he has no idea what the time out is for. IMMEDIATELY, when he does something wrong, take his leash up and bring him to the time out. NO hesitation.

He's 30 lbs. And you are right on both counts. I do panic a little and I think both my husband and I are both giving in to him too much. We tend to negotiate with him which when you think about it is totally ridiculous. Thanks for the advice. Hopefully we can get him back on track ASAP.

We ALL (myself included) need a little bit of a reminder once in a while

We're being trained too! I think we just need to reign him in a little. I think we saw some maturity and improvement in him and gave him too much freedom too soon. We have a great dog trainer who has been a godsend to us, so hopefully her assistance along with your advice will make all the difference.

Quote :

My puppy is always harnessed when we are out walking. He also has his collar on. When he saw the other puppy in the doorway, he plopped down in the middle of the road and wouldn't budge. I tried to get him to keep following me on our way home, but he wasn't moving. I tried to nudge him by lightly pulling him up to his feet by his collar.

Looks like Tori gave you some great advice there. If you follow that you should find a noticeable improvement on your pup's dominance in a few weeks .

I would however like to add one small thing about the walk. Have you thought about clipping onto the collar instead of the harness for your walks? Though they can be terribly cute harnessed, they are not the best thing to use when training a puppy about leash manners. They tend to create a need to pull, as it prompts their instincts to do so, as well as give you less control over your pup.

Control the head and neck, and you control the dog.

Gently tugging the neck to the side would have allowed you to break the line of sight with the other dog. Though there would have still been fight to see the dog you have much more control over what Qannik can and can not see. Thus much more control over any situation where the stuborness of a Husky could cause problems . Pulling the harness doesn't break any line of sight, it allows them to continue to fixate while you drag them backwards.


As for him sitting in the middle of the road, like Tori said, simply by walking you should be able to force a move, or "on by". When you're clipped into a harness however you're generally clipped into the pup's center mass. If you would have been clipped to the collar, by moving forward the head and neck would have been extended forcing Qannik to move forward in the end.

You should never need to touch your pup while walking, unless they are doing something really wrong. Other then that by controlling the neck and head you should have a much easier time then fighting your pup's full weight, which is often what they learn to do in a harness.


Don't get me wrong we love our harnesses... For Biking, Skating, Hiking, running, ect.. they are great. For general walks however we chose to use a collar...

Just food for thought

~Chris~

Chris - we've never thought about using a collar, because we're so afraid of him slipping out of it. It seems like from day one of researching getting a puppy, most of what we read or were told, was to use a harness for walking because it was safer. We are currently using a harness that is made to deter pulling. The leash is actually clipped at his chest. However, the breeder we got Q from recommend a martingale collar to us, so maybe it is worth it for us to invest in one, especially for this crucial training period. All of what you said makes sense though. Our dogs become such a big part of our life and family, that it's hard to not get emotional about him. We want to do everything we can to make sure that Q is a wonderful dog to be around. At this point, he is, with this one exception. Thanks so much for your input. Looks like we're going to have to take a much harder line with him for a while.

This dog is not seeing you as Alpha, if he were he would know better then to ever bite/nip/jump on you.

As far as I see it go back to day one, he should be given nothing until he does exactly what you want. NILF NILF NILF can't say it enough lol. Take him for walks and take high value treats with you. When he is behaving nicely, say he sits when you tell him treat him or clicker him whatever you use to reinforce good behavior. Totally agree with Tori if he parks his butt on the ground then his butt is going to get dragged, believe me he will get up. You could try a halti leader, the one with the strap that goes over the nose, its an easy correct and would probably work better then a harness for walking. I personally hate harnesses, to me they make dogs pull! I have an ez walk harness for my lab because she is a major puller and that does seem to help her.

The method of using the scuff of the neck and forcing a dog to lie down comes from what mothers do to their puppies when they get out of line. In my experience it really doesn't work that well when we humans use it. I did try it a few times when my lab was getting out of control, was never really sure it worked.

Bottom line don't give in to him, not even one little time, he will remember it and he will never accept you as boss.

Totally agree with Tori on leaving a leash on him. Balon wears his leash all day long! It makes for an easy correction, plus he is not completely trained yet so he is mostly tethered to me anyway.

I know that Balon tries to get his way, so does my lab, and it's so easy to just give in, BUT it just creates a bigger problem.

Don't worry Qannik is so normal, just get tough Mom!

lizzyduhh wrote:

have you tried grabbing the side of his neck [not hard, just firmly] and forcing him to lay down on his side while not letting go? thats what a dominant animal would do to assert his dominance over the challenger.

i do it to my pups when the start getting out of line and they get right back in line.

if he fights you, let go for a second and do it again.

I agree with Tori. This method can do more harm than good if not done properly. I don't like the whole "alpha" terminology either. I like to think of it more of respect. In order for your pup to get certain priviliges, he needs to respect you. No ifs, ands, or butts. NILIF is a great starting point.

Wishing you luck with your biting/dominance issue. We're working through a somewhat similar situation (mostly biting/mouthing) - so you're not alone. I'm starting to think that Nikolai's real name should have been "you little bastard".

One has to wonder... How much is a declaration of dominance and how much is 'being a puppy'.

Thanks everyone for your advice and words of encouragement.

We do practice NILF with him, however, I think we just got too soft on him. We're tightening the reigns on him and holding a hard line.

I shared your posts with our puppy trainer, and she agrees with pretty much everything you've said. The first thing she told me to do was to feed him his next meal by hand (which was last night). I did the same thing this morning and will continue to be the one to feed him for a while. I took him for a walk this morning and decided to take him to an area where there are less distractions. Just my luck, we just about came upon a loose dog. I think Q and I both spotted him at the exact same time, so just as he plopped in the road again I turned and started walking in the opposite direction to change our course. I had no issues with him. He didn't give me any attitude. He just calmly followed. We always carry treats and our clicker with us when we go walking and we try to reward him as much as possible for all his good behavior. Our trainer has spent at least 25+ hours with us with a combination of private home sessions and puppy classes and has a very good read on him and it's her professional opinion that he's simply a puppy BRAT. He is strong willed and when he wants something, he wants it now. It's a matter of breaking him of his bossiness.

I think I also need to alter my handling techniques, the tone of my voice etc. I tend to talk to him like a baby and ask him to do things, not TELL him!

For the record, the only thing our trainer doesn't agree with is any physical punishment.

Thanks again.

Quote :

Our trainer has spent at least 25+ hours with us with a combination of private home sessions and puppy classes and has a very good read on him and it's her professional opinion that he's simply a puppy BRAT.

Sounds just like a Husky puppy to me . Strong willed, adventurous, and full of energy .

Quote :

For the record, the only thing our trainer doesn't agree with is any physical punishment.

And most of us here agree with that statement as well

Like you said, be firm, commanding, strict with Q, but most of all be fair. It's not wrong to cherish and spoil your dogs. But they need to understand when it's working time (walks, hikes, general obedience, ect) they need to listen and respect you.

Once they are, there is nothing wrong with spoiling, playing, and love. everything in moderation.

Sounds like your on the right track. They all need rules and a firm person they can respect.
Just give it time and you'll get there

Quote :

Chris - we've never thought about using a collar, because we're so afraid of him slipping out of it.

If your not comfortable with one then that is fine. Most of all You need to be 100% comfortable with your tools to be as confident as you can. I've not had much luck with no pull harnesses, but it doesn't mean they don't work.

Sounds like on your last walk you even got it to work just as Tori said .

If you do switch ever though if the collar is sized properly it should never fit over the head. A good rule of thumb is your able to get two or three fingers behind the collar when it is at it's highest point on the neck. With a growing puppy you also want to check this often.

Stay the course and best of luck to you
Calm, Firm, Commanding, and Fair

~Chris~

Tika wrote:

Quote :

Our trainer has spent at least 25+ hours with us with a combination of private home sessions and puppy classes and has a very good read on him and it's her professional opinion that he's simply a puppy BRAT.

Sounds just like a Husky puppy to me . Strong willed, adventurous, and full of energy .

Quote :

For the record, the only thing our trainer doesn't agree with is any physical punishment.

And most of us here agree with that statement as well

Yep and yep. Enough said.

Trainers make me laugh sometimes. I've heard a few say "This is the strongest willed dog I've seen!" "No, your dog is just a puppy brat." Unless you're working with a person who is 100% familiar with huskies, they don't generally understand that all of this is normal. We've ALL been through what you are going through. He's not a brat, or a bad dog (not saying your trainer thinks he is-- saying that in general). He's just a 100% normal husky puppy. That's what they do

Glad to hear things are getting better!

Koda wrote:

lizzyduhh wrote:

have you tried grabbing the side of his neck [not hard, just firmly] and forcing him to lay down on his side while not letting go? thats what a dominant animal would do to assert his dominance over the challenger.

i do it to my pups when the start getting out of line and they get right back in line.

if he fights you, let go for a second and do it again.

I'm really concerned with this method. Forcing a dog down is not going to endear you to him. While sometimes, when a person is trained properly in "alpha rolling" (as it's called), the practice can help to calm a dog down, it is NOT something that is recommended without the help of a trained professional and in fact, I prefer to use methods that don't involve FORCING a dog to do anything. Often times, especially with a dog who is already acting up, it just increases the dog's anxiety and panic, creating a dangerous situation for the dog and owner. Please be very careful when suggesting something like this.

i do apologize for my wording. when i write, i tend to use harsh words for effect. i didnt mean force when i said ... force. Of course i never make a distressed animal go down, especially when he/she is visibly distraught or resisting. i do have experience in this method and it was my mistake to even recommend it... i have a bad habit of assuming that if i know how to do something, then everyone else can or should be able to do it too.

again, im sorry.

No apologies necessary. We just don't want to use any techniques that are counter-productive to what we are already doing, which is reward based training.

I don't think anyone on here condones physical punishment, at least I certainly hope not.

im not saying ive used this on either husky, but its how i was taught to do it at the shelter i worked for for 9 years. it was how they did what they did. i never hurt and usually just standing over the works. i never thought of it as a punishment. i fell bad now. i would never want to hurt any dog or any animal at all. they just told me some of the more strong willed dogs need to know whos boss.

my huskies though, even when we play [i love playing rough and yes, they know the difference between play and "serious" time] they assume the submissive. if i try to expose my belly, they lay down and dont play anymore.

like i said above tho, i never thought of "pack leader" style training was punishment... i mean i've never hit or even gave timeouts.

im confused and feel like a bad dog owner now

i mean, i know they love me and have no fear of me... ugh... oh well

lizzyduhh wrote:

im not saying ive used this on either husky, but its how i was taught to do it at the shelter i worked for for 9 years. it was how they did what they did. i never hurt and usually just standing over the works. i never thought of it as a punishment. i fell bad now. i would never want to hurt any dog or any animal at all. they just told me some of the more strong willed dogs need to know whos boss....
like i said above tho, i never thought of "pack leader" style training was punishment... i mean i've never hit or even gave timeouts.

im confused and feel like a bad dog owner now

The issue is that "pack leader" mentality is confused for a lot of people. Dogs use physical touch because in many situations, they have to. We as people, do not. Therefore, using force is often not necessary.

Shelters use that approach because they often don't have the time or resources to train people properly. In their minds, it's always quicker and easier to use physical force than it is to try and use positive reinforcement on each dog. I can't always blame shelters for this approach because many are inundated with animals. However, just because a shelter uses this method doesn't make it necessary, and in many of our minds "appropriate," for regular use by owners.

There's also a huge misunderstanding with the term "dominance" and "pack leader" as propagated by shows like "The Dog Whisperer." To some extent, it's true. You need to establish yourself as the head of the household. The person from whom all good things come. However, that doesn't include forcing this position on an animal. It means asserting yourself in that position. The dog will follow what you do because you're the only one who gives him food, toys, affection, protection, etc. In the wild, that's how it would be done. Dogs don't actually force their position on another animal. A mother might do a quick nip if her pup is getting unruly, but that's it. If you watch her with her litter, if her pup starts jumping on her or biting her, she turns her back to him and ignores him. She RARELY actually bares her teeth and growls, or positions herself "above" her pup to assert her place.

Read up on the forum and some articles involving the "dominance theory" in the wild. It doesn't actually reflect what most Caesar Milan followers take away from him.

I definitely do not think you are a bad dog owner! Please don't feel that way. I am sure you are wonderful to your pups and they are lucky to have you! I completely appreciate you reaching out and trying to help me with my current situtation.