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 Unruley puppy.

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Freya's Mummy
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Freya's Mummy

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PostSubject: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 6:21 am

Freya is 9 weeks old now and we've had her for 3 weeks. She is getting more lively by the day and my boys are finding it really hard dealing with her jumping all over them and biting. She is VERY mouthy and as much as we try to re-direct it to a toy or a chew thing she doesnt seem to be making any progress.

My youngest son, Christian, aged 3 years, sees the dog and starts screaming/crying in fear of her. He sees her and thinks she's coming to sink her little fangs into his leg or tear the socks off his feet. He runs to get away from her which in turn makes her want to chase him, reinforcing his fear.

Just ten minutes ago my eldest son Blake, was walking into his room to come and tell me something and she grabbed onto his leg through really thich pants. Usually it just annoys him and he says 'Freya-Dog! Let go.' but this time he cried a real pain cry.
I had a decision to make, did I tend to my son and see the injury or did I try to discapline the dog?
I went with the dog, because she would soon forget anything had happened. My son's leg was still attached so it wasnt that bad.

I put Freya in time out (the bathroom) as I do when she gets unruley and boystrous. I then tended to my sons leg which had a really deep skin scrape in the shape of tiny puppy teeth.

I am trying to teach her leave it - Every time she is chewing on something whether that be clothing, the kids toys, us what ever. I tell her to leave it and give her a toy of her own or her chew.
When she is trying to jump up on the furniture (which she isnt aloud on) I tell her to get down. She has to sit and paw before getting her meals. I've started getting her to sit before getting a pat or any kind of affection from me. I'm also trying to get the kids to do this aswell.

I love her to death, she's an absolute god send to us, but she's driving me bonkers! Is there anything I'm doing wrong or not doing to make her so unruley? I get that she's a puppy and puppies act like this, but it doesnt seem to be improving.

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brady.law
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 6:42 am

I am sure you know this by now, but getting a puppy at 6 weeks is way too soon, unfortunately a lot of times this ends up being the result. There are a lot of different teqniques to try as I am sure people will chime in and list, it will probably take a bit longer to teach her since you got her so young but she will learn eventually.

There was a few listed here recently:

https://www.itsahuskything.com/t5049-feeling-despaired
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Freya's Mummy
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 7:12 am

Yes, I know that 6 weeks was not ideal, but cercumstances didnt permit for her to stay with her mother any longer.
She has really good interaction with a retriever pup who is 15 weeks old. They play together about twice a week at my place, so I'm hoping she can help teach her bite inhibition the way her littler mates would have done.

Thanks, I'm looking into the link now.
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 7:48 am

Quote :
She is VERY mouthy and as much as we try to re-direct it to a toy or a chew thing she doesnt seem to be making any progress.

Most Huskies are when they are that young. It's known to be a very mouthy breed and is one of the first, and dificult challenges your going to be facing.

There are a couple of ways you can try and curve the biting but the very first thing you need to know is she is still SUPER young. Nothing you read here will fix your problem over night sadly, and in all honesty it will get worse and more intense as Freya ages up to her teething phase most likely.

That being said you should not tolerate it now or then. Just work and work and work at it until it is gone and she understands. that being said some of the things you can try are as follows:


Yelp Method
When thinking with children in mind I try and train with how I believe their responses would be to a bite. Tika is trained to stop rough housing or playing with me if I scream "OUCH" in English or French.

When Tika would play bite me and I felt it was too rough, or during her teething/mouthing phase We would Yelp our OUCH and stop all play right then and there until she relaxed and laid down or calmed down.

The yelp if done sharp and loud like you really got hurt should trigger a questioning / surprised response. Puppies also tend to stop playing with one another when they yelp and one gets hurts, So stopping all eye contact, talking, play, and simply ignoring should sink in after some time.

Weather or not you remove yourself from the situation depends on the dog in my experience. Some do better if you stay there and just sit there as they try and continue to play with you, while others understand fater if you get up and leave. Both have the same end result as they start to understand 'When I bite like that play stops" but I've personally had more luck just staying there and ignoring.



Time Outs

You could extend your time outs to include biting during play. I would still Yelp and then place Freya in time out if you do indeed do this.


Muzzle shut
I'm not a huge fan of the muzzle shut simply because it tends to be something children can't do themselves. I've used it, but I prefer training the dog to understand verbal triggers or something a child would do to begin with.

That being said you can firmly, but gently (I know it's a bit of a contradiction), close the mouth or muzzle of the pup and say NO, or NO BITE, loud. Firm eye contact tends to help. again stop all play and or remove yourself from the situation or place in time out.


Redirection
Sounds like your doing this one already. But try redirecting to a toy or item you've reinforced as being good to chew to begin with. When Freya is chewing this item praise and pet her. Then when she bites you you exclaim how wrong it was and give her the item.

If you have old face cloths get them good and wet and then freeze them over night. These work wonders as chew toys and can be used later on when Freya begins to have sensitive teeth during her teething phase. Tika still loves them.


Gag Reflex
I'm really not going to go into detail here but you can find it on the boards if you really look. It works very well, A friends Golden was terribly mouthy until Kelly and I explained how to do it properly and the dog has improved so much in such a short time.

If you look hard enough you should be able to find it, but I don't believe it pertains to you as you want something your children could do too, and at this point it will more then likely cause more harm then good to both Freya and your little ones.


What ever you do pick one and stick to it. Like I said it won't get better until it gets worse.... But she should start to pick it up. Sadly puppies, especially those taken too early do develop mouthy habits.

Quote :
He runs to get away from her which in turn makes her want to chase him, reinforcing his fear.

I would make this a training exercise when you can. Help your son command his space by standing his ground and just ignoring her. If you need to Umbilical Freya when he is around then thats fine, and I know 3 years of age seems young... But he should be able to show his dislike for her charging him even at that age Smile.

Quote :
I am trying to teach her leave it
Start with Treats and then move onto other things. Leave it is a GREAT command, and get your children to help you with it if you can.
Place and treat down and use leave it until Freya sits and doesn't lunge for it. Then release and keep doing it.
Once she has Leave it down and understands it It transitions so much better to other things in the house or outside. But starting with treats tends to help alot for the beginning. I would however keep using it right now on cloth and such.

Just keep at it and be firm.
Hope it helps

~Chris~

_________________
Is this about the cake problem? What's the matter with you mathematicians, cake is never a problem. - Professor Lazlo
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Freya's Mummy
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 8:03 am

Thanks Chris, this is great!
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pandactivity
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pandactivity

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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 3:41 pm

We got Trillion at 6 weeks of age as well, we learned soon after posting about her that she may have bad biting habits thus we started socializing her EVERYWHERE WE WENT SHE CAME WITH US, she went to the dog park about four times a week the dog beach once a week training class once a week plus into stores around people with us EVERYWHERE, if they asked us to take her outside, we left.

that with a combination of "be a tree" is what helped curb her mouthing.

she NEVER EVER mouths me now, but occationaly she will mouth my boyfriend. but I think that's because he's not as tough on her about it.

anybody that comes into the house even now when trillion is 6 months of age, we tell them if she jumps on you, "be a tree" if she mouths you, "be a tree"
and when she has four on the floor then you can pet her play with her... but once she starts doing it again be a tree and walk away not even making eye contact with her. do not tell her anything just ignore her, or if you must a simple calm "nope" will do.


also with leave it, we tried to get something she can't have.. like a wrapper from bacon or something put it on the floor stand by it and when she went for it a sold/loud LEAVE IT! and block her and after two or three leave-it's she would stop trying to go for it at all.
and of course every time we said leave it and she hesitated, we treated her.

that one took a week or two but she's got it now, she will leave it and wait enough time to go back that we have a chance to grab it or her.

goodluck!
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Balonsmom
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 6:40 pm

Let me just assure you that Freya is normal, and it's not just puppies taken too young that can be mouthy. I got my lab at 8 weeks and I have never ever had such a mouthy puppy. My boys are older all in their 20's and they didn't want to interact with her because she was so mouthy. It got worse when she started teething. We lived through it with much training and patience, and she outgrew it mostly. She still at one year old likes to put her mouth on us, but never do we feel teeth anymore.

I would try yelling ouch, or a high pitched yip like the other poster said, but I never found it worked with Ruby.

What did work was a lot of patience and general training her to do other things so that we could redirect her. Teaching her sit/stay was the most beneficial.
Good luck, it's a hard thing but you can do it!
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Freya's Mummy
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Freya's Mummy

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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 8:35 pm

She knows sit and paw. We're working hard on laydown and roll over.
I'm definatelly going to take this advice it all sounds great.

She had some food agression with her raw food or any yummy things other than her dry food. So she is getting hand fed at the moment and I take this poprtunity to get her to do a whole range of commands to get each and every bit of food. She's much better with the agression now adn I can go up to her and take a chew right out of her mouth.
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Ghost
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 10:28 pm

I had to smile at the thread title, because all puppies are unruly, by definition Smile. You've got some great advice in this thread. I just wanted to add that Dog Star Daily has a great puppy training textbook which you can read online here. It includes sections on puppy biting and teaching bite inhibition, as well as about socializing the puppy. Freya sounds like lots of fun Smile
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Freya's Mummy
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Freya's Mummy

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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 10:43 pm

haha, Yes, I believe all pups are unruley lol.
Thanks for the link, I'm checking it out as we speak.

She is lots of fun, she's wonderful and she's an amazing little girl. She's my hairy daughter.
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Freya's Mummy
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Freya's Mummy

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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptySat Jun 23, 2012 2:45 am

I was int the kids room tidying up and listening to Christian playing. He was saying 'Sit Freya, good girl.' Was so nice to hear him talk to her with out the fear in his voice.

I decided to ge the treats out and get him to give her a few commands.
I put the treat in his hand, guided his hand the way I do when I'm training her and told him to say the commands.
She did them and took the treats really well. He was so excited and pleased with himself for being able to do it.

I felt so great, he wasnt afraid or shy.
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Tika
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptySat Jun 23, 2012 2:57 am

Freya's Mummy wrote:
I was int the kids room tidying up and listening to Christian playing. He was saying 'Sit Freya, good girl.' Was so nice to hear him talk to her with out the fear in his voice.

I decided to ge the treats out and get him to give her a few commands.
I put the treat in his hand, guided his hand the way I do when I'm training her and told him to say the commands.
She did them and took the treats really well. He was so excited and pleased with himself for being able to do it.

I felt so great, he wasnt afraid or shy.

thats perfect...... Build off that for EVERYTHING.

You and your children should be training together. And in the end it should be fun like a game. Not work Smile.

Sounds like your getting there. Smile

Keep at it. It is SOOOOOOO worth the pain, effort, and time.

~Chris~
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptySat Jun 23, 2012 4:22 am

Yes, I'm definatelly going to be doing more of it.
It pains me to say it, but I read somewhere on the forums that 'Puppies were overrated.' I've had other dogs, and I'm sure I felt like this when they were pups too, but I'm really starting to see why.

I wanted to get a pup so the boys could grow up with it from the beginning. I wanted the dog to get used to the kids from the get go. But now I can really see why people would get older dgos that are out of this stage.
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 29, 2012 2:15 am

No real advice but my boy is 10months old now n is mouthy but its so innocent and no pressure. He pretty much uses it as shaking hands or to get my attention while I'm walking around the house.

Have a question though. Are Huskies good with small children. I am assuming no. They play too much! Especially kids wounding them up. Bad connection with high energy kids n high energy dog breed. No good.
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 29, 2012 2:19 am

The only concern I have with Huskies and children is that the child may get knocked over or hurt, but with close supervision they are great with kids Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 29, 2012 3:45 am

NekoisMYBuddy wrote:

Have a question though. Are Huskies good with small children. I am assuming no. They play too much! Especially kids wounding them up. Bad connection with high energy kids n high energy dog breed. No good.

On Dogs 101 just this Monday passed, they had Siberian Huskies. The experts on the programme said they were one of the best dogs for children because they have a mind that is child like.

Yes they are high energy, but so are kids. Yes, they can be boystrous but hell, kids can be too! And yes, they can knock them over and get a little too rough, and in no way am I defending this, but so can a Great Dane, and they're classified as a lap dog.

I did a lot of research into the breed before I got her. I would never bring a dog in to my household if I felt like my children were in danger. Yes she's mouthy, yes she's jumpy, but she is a puppy. Tell me what puppy isnt? I'm didnt post this to be told I have made the wrong decision by getting Freya, I posted to get advice on how to stop her from doing these things.


I'm sorry If I have come across rude or unappreciative. But I have made a commitment to my children and my dog. I am going to do my darndest to make this work for all of us.
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 29, 2012 10:43 am

I don't think anyone was asking that as an attack on you, Francine. I think it was an honest question Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 29, 2012 11:40 am

I apologise. I've just had alot of people tell me that getting a Husky was a terrible thing to do, that they're dangewrous, that they're 'pack animal' Well of course they're pack animals, they're dogs. But Huskies more than other breeds like to be aropund their pack, that pack doesnt have to consist of other dogs, it can be people too.

I've had family and very close friends tell me I'm endangering my children by getting Freya.
I'm just a little touchy.
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 29, 2012 2:08 pm

I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just asking if they breed is good with smaller dogs children etc

Because we all know how they love little things and the high energy kids n Huskies both have... if its controlled they're are fine just like any other dog
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PostSubject: Re: Unruley puppy.    Unruley puppy.  EmptyFri Jun 29, 2012 9:39 pm

Again I apologise.
I think it's like the prey drive and cats/small pets. If they're raised around them from a young pup they tend to do better with them.
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