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| Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? | |
| Author | Message |
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TiresmokinV8 Newborn
Join date : 2012-04-10 Location : Springfield Twp Ohio
| Subject: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:39 pm | |
| My pup who is just about to turn 6months still throws the biggest fit whenever I close the door on her crate. I work nights so every night even weekends when Im home she is put in her crate. When I got her at 9 weeks she would whine and cry along with pounding on the sides of the crate all night long ( I know this since I was off for those first 3 weeks). Shes better now to the point where she knows to go in there after I take her out to go potty right before I leave for work. She'll run into her crate and wait for her biscuit and kong with peanut butter inside and wont make a single fuss for the next few moments Im home but when I come home in the morning shes howling and banging against the crate door and I notice that the crate is almost a foot from where I left it along with he blankets getting torn to shreds within days. Also the stench. I thought she peed but one night I left all blankets out and saw clear puddles in the morning which Im geussing is drool. So apparently she starts off calm but sometime during the night starts throwing a fit. Ill add that during the weekends when Im home shes fine inn and quiet all night long. Now during the day time its a whole different story . She wont go into her crate on her own when I tell her to and instantly throws a fit still as soon as the crate door closes. This is when she poops 70% of the time ( hardly ever at night). And I know its not neccassarily because she has to go potty since a few times I put her in there before going to the store right after she pees and poops in the yard and hardly an hour later I come home to a mess. She wont even touch her kong when its in there with her during the day. So why is she acting so differently during the day then at night? I take her for a mile walks before going to stores during the day but it doesnt seem to help much. She does fall right to sleep when I get home and let her out of her crate though. The way Ive trained her was bringing the crate to the livingroom and bedroom for the first couple months to keep it around and always with the door open but she would never nap in it she would sleep on the floor up against it or around it but never on her bed in the crate unless I put her in there and shut the door. Sorry for the long rant but never had this issue with a pup before but then again never had a husky before either so I know they do have anxiety issues and wonder what the best approach to this issue would be. Thanks |
| | | NadirCs Teenager
Join date : 2012-03-28 Location : Vienna, VA
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:51 am | |
| Your story sounds like it definitely could be separation anxiety. I would do a couple things to test it. First, I would recommend REALLY exercising your puppy one day; get her super exhausted. Go for a long run, play some, maybe do some training to work in some mental stimulation. Let her calm down for a bit (30 mins to hour) and then try leaving her and seeing what she does. In my experience, it doesn't matter how exhausted the dog is, if she has separation anxiety she will freak out when you leave. This can rule out boredom as the cause. Another thing I would test is IF you have a room that you could safely leave the dog in, would be to leave her there. Some dogs do have crating anxiety. I'm a fan of webcam recording (or spying from another computer if you have that ability) to see what's happening in your absence. See how she does under these different circumstances and see if you can rule out these two common other causes of distress when you are gone.
If neither of these tests indicate a different cause, I'd say separation anxiety is highly likely. You'll need to work on separation desensitization training. There's a really good (short) book called "I'll Be Home Soon" as well as plenty of websites on the topic. You can try calming aids. There are natural ones like Rescue Remedy, a D.A.P. Diffuser, or the Thundershirt or prescription medications for extreme cases.
Additionally, I would step up the positive crate training. There are some great posts on this site (and a sticky at the beginning of the training forum) about crate training. Regardless of the verdict, making the crate a very positive place for her will help.
(As a side note, and this is gross, if the horrible stench is kind of fishy smelling it could be the anal glands. Some dogs will release these when they are scared. Gross, I know. My dog did this, but she also drooled/panted an ocean when at her worst.) |
| | | TiresmokinV8 Newborn
Join date : 2012-04-10 Location : Springfield Twp Ohio
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:35 am | |
| Thanks, The whole lock her in a room thing I dont think would help since she also starts barking and howling at the back door if I run outside to say take the trash out or something in the garage where she cant see me but will be fine Ive noticed if she can see me through the glass window of the front door while I run down to the street to get the mail. Heck she'll wimper outside the bathroom door when I go to the bathroom but only for a few seconds and only if I just came home and let her out of her crate. If Ive been home for a couple hours then she'll just lay down outside the door and wait. Ill try the wearing her out even more approach. There's been a handful of times where we've gone for a 1.5 mile fast walk before her weekly obedience class in order to wear her down some so she'll focus then go to class and after class she ussually sleeps in the car home and Ill put her in her crate afterwards and she'll just freak out. but its not like we did a whole lot to wear her out. Just enough walking to get her to focus in class otherwise she just whines and fights the leash during class trying to play with all the other dogs. But If I walk her 2 miles or more before class she doesnt want to do anything but lay down even with a handful of smelly treats waved infront of her nose so theres a fine line there. Anyways Ill take her on a longer walk and play fetch or something on the property and see how it goes. As for anal glands its hard to say I know its musty and activates the gag reflex if I hold up her blankets to put them in the wash after I get home in the morning. But I cant say it reminds me of fish per say. |
| | | NadirCs Teenager
Join date : 2012-03-28 Location : Vienna, VA
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:59 am | |
| I'd say it is likely separation anxiety. I would first focus on positive crate training and then start working on separation anxiety desensitization training. As I said, you can probably find detailed information on this training by googling it and the book I recommended really lays it out.
Additionally, a lot of people like the Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF) training and say it helps with separation anxiety. She definitely sounds like she needs to learn some independence since you can't step out of her sight without her crying.
I won't lie, separation anxiety can be hard to deal with. I got an adult husky from a shelter so hers was pretty bad and we still work on it years later. It might be easier to deal with in a puppy (I don't know though.)
Here is a link to some basic info on SA Training: http://bobhunsicker.articlealley.com/rescue-dog-training--curing-separation-anxiety-with-desensitization-and-crate-training-921891.html, but there is a lot more info out there on the net. |
| | | TiresmokinV8 Newborn
Join date : 2012-04-10 Location : Springfield Twp Ohio
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:00 pm | |
| Thanks, What else can I do for positive reinforcement on crate training? I already feed her every meal in her crate ( she'll run in there on her own when I carry her food bowl) and I hide treats in there every now and then. |
| | | Koda Ms. Amicable
Join date : 2009-05-20 Location : Glenville, NY
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:53 pm | |
| Jenny has given you some great advice so far! For positive reinforcement crate training, check out this sticky: Crate TrainingIt has several suggestions _________________ www.itsahuskything.com It's a husky thing... you wouldn't understand. |
| | | TiresmokinV8 Newborn
Join date : 2012-04-10 Location : Springfield Twp Ohio
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:17 am | |
| Thanks I checked that out. I have always feed her every meal in the crate but I have recently started only giving her her filled kong and a nylabone when she is in her crate to make since those are what I feel are the most valued by her. She'll eat the puperoni/biscuits/beggin strips/peanut butter out of the kong at night when shes in there for 8 hrs but during the day when And the smell Im not sure if its fishy more of maybe an almond mixed with a slight fecal smell? I dont know how to explain it but I had to run up to the hardware store to get sand for her sandbox I built and was gone for only 20mins and it smelled already. and of course her face was soaked. She has been getting much better at calming down before Ill let her out though. I used to just open up the crate when I got to it but started waiting while giving her the sit command. |
| | | Koda Ms. Amicable
Join date : 2009-05-20 Location : Glenville, NY
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:12 am | |
| Hailey used to do that. It was almost like a "kennel smell". I think it's some sort of panic sweat is what I called it and it's rank.
It's a form of SA. With Hailey though, she got over it in a few weeks. If it still persists, I might try some over the counter calming meds while you're still training her. She's panicking that you aren't coming back. If she's good in the crate during the night, it's likely she's calmed by your presence. Try leaving a shirt nearby (not in the crate if she's going to eat it). Try covering the crate like a den (try and use a thick blanket that she can't pull inside or an actual crate cover for a wired crate. Leave music or the TV on. If none of these work, try the OTC calming meds (you can get them at any petsmart type place) or discuss something stronger with your vet.
Do you throw treats in there during the day too? Step up the training, but it does sound like it's a case of Separation Anxiety. _________________ www.itsahuskything.com It's a husky thing... you wouldn't understand. |
| | | TiresmokinV8 Newborn
Join date : 2012-04-10 Location : Springfield Twp Ohio
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:26 am | |
| I ordered some Rescue Remedy to see if that helps, None of the pet stores or health store around here carried it. I used to put a blanket over the crate but she kept pulling it in and ripping it up now I put a heavy tarp over it. Ill try the shirt. Radio never worked. |
| | | NadirCs Teenager
Join date : 2012-03-28 Location : Vienna, VA
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:41 pm | |
| We lost a sheet or two over the crate that way. We ended up constructing a crate cover out of large cardboard pieces. Not the prettiest thing ever, but she couldn't suck it in.
As for the radio, a TV or radio isn't going to replace your presence but you can use it as a tool when doing desensitization training. Since that boils down to leaving for a second or two and coming back in, over and over, and then for a few minutes, and then eventually hours, it is a slow process and not accomplished in a weekend. You can use a radio when you are training and it can be a "sign" that you are always coming back. So, say you have to leave for work for 8 hours and you have only trained up to 30 minutes of alone time, don't use the radio when you leave for work. Only use the radio when you are training or leaving her for a time she's comfortable with until you've worked all the way up to multiple hours. Then always use the radio. (Sometimes you need a two locations if you will be leaving the dog for more than it's been trained for or the long absence in the middle of training can "reset" her. It depends on the dog/severity. For many a "sign" like a radio or TV will work.) Supposedly people have done things like make a recording of them talking/reading/whatever and use that, but I've never tried that.
Make sure you start small, making sure she can just be out of your presence while you are home. Good luck!!! It sounds like you are a great HuskyDad! |
| | | TiresmokinV8 Newborn
Join date : 2012-04-10 Location : Springfield Twp Ohio
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:48 am | |
| Thanks. so far as covers go Ive lost 2 sheets, 2 shower curtains as tarps and now I have a cardboard box over it which she cant pull in so Im good now. I need to find something for her to lay on in there though. Im going through 2 bath towels a week in there. She just shreds them up. She has never chewed on or shred anything outside of her crate though. I'm still working on gettting that time up while Im home. It still doesnt matter if its 5 mins in there or a hour. She still howling the whole time with just spurts every now and then where she'll calm down. I have gotten her to calm down and sit there right away before Ill open the crate. She was doing really good by not pooping at night while Im at work I has been atleast 1.5 months since shes gone in the crate at night but last monday and again today when I came home in the morning I came home to a mess.I dont know what thats about. her normal routine is to go poo in the morning when I get home, in the afternoon sometime and then later in the evening before I leave for work. I'm not sure why her morning ones are coming early. Im going to keep working on trying to get her to calm down during the day while Im home.. Should I still go from a short time to long time or should I switch it up and make it just random lengths of time? Ill try the radio too although when Im home Im either watching tv or vaccuuming or walking around the house so she can hear me and it doesnt seem to matter unless Im walking close to the room shes crated in. Ill keep chugging away at it. Do these dogs ever grow out of this or does it only getting better with desensitizing? Thanks again! |
| | | TiresmokinV8 Newborn
Join date : 2012-04-10 Location : Springfield Twp Ohio
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:51 am | |
| Oh and since I kept loosing towels inside the cage I tried a piece of carpeting since she doesnt bother the carpet around the house but that only lasted a week before it was shredded. |
| | | NadirCs Teenager
Join date : 2012-03-28 Location : Vienna, VA
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:01 pm | |
| 1st, I don't know what to tell you about the bed. If the separation anxiety is full swing she's going to tear up anything you leave in there (mine even tore up the crate itself). I'd say pick a bed/towel/whatever and only leave it in there supervised and while training and take it out when she's being left alone for longer than she's been trained to handle. I know a lot of people don't put any bed in the crate and the dogs don't mind.
2nd, I'd find a routine and stick to it with training. I was a big fan of the short (40 pgs) book I'll Be Home Soon, but this link basically lays out the 4 steps of desensitization training at the bottom of the article: Separation Anxiety in Dogs (ignore the links/ads on the page promising cures, they are just spam).
3rd, does it get better? Gosh, it's tough. If she's got it bad it's realllly tough. We got ours trained so she could be left home alone without issues though. It is doable. She required medication during the training though. This was a hard decision for us to choose, but she just went absolutely crazy as soon as we were out of sight. I don't like to recommend medication, this is something you'd need to discuss with your vet (preferably if your vet is a behaviorist.) I'd try all the natural remedies first, DAP diffuser, Thundershirt, Rescue Remedy. |
| | | TiresmokinV8 Newborn
Join date : 2012-04-10 Location : Springfield Twp Ohio
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Wed May 02, 2012 10:55 am | |
| Made a BIG BOOBOO last night. I must have forgotten to close the crate door before I left for work. I came home to Mieka sitting at the back door with poo and pee all over the entryway rug. I was pretty pissed at first since I thought she had broken out of the crate but then felt pissed about myself when I saw that the door was still in its upright position. I have an Ovation crate where the door opens and closes vertically like a garage door. It slides down in a track so its harder to break out and you just lift up all the way and tilt it to lay on top of the crate so the doors out of the way. I took off the cardboard box that I use for a cover and found the door still laying on top. I cant find anything in the house out of place or torn up so Im counting my blessings. Atleast the entryway rug was able to be just put outside and hosed/scrubbed off. Ill have to pay more attention now LOL.
Side note I have been using rescue remedy for a week now and it seems to help some. And picked up the plugin Comfort Zone Dap yesterday and we'll see how that works. I know that once I plugged it in she went up and sniffed it then later in the night she kept going up to it and sniffing it then barking at it wanting to play. Haha it was pretty funny watching her run up to it, bark, run away then run back and bark again. |
| | | NadirCs Teenager
Join date : 2012-03-28 Location : Vienna, VA
| Subject: Re: Does this sound like seperation anxiety or have I just spoiled her or something? Wed May 02, 2012 11:10 am | |
| Haha, we used the DAP plugin when we first tried fixing Phantom's issues. But we had no idea what we were doing in the beginning and she wasn't crated when we left her. That first DAP only made it one day with her, first time she was home alone she ate it! I was really scared she'd get sick from consuming most of the liquid but magically she was ok. After that we accepted that'd she'd have to be crate trained. lol.
Things you learn with dogs! Glad the rescue remedy is helping some, and that's great that she didn't destroy anything when she was free. |
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