I'm writing something and am looking for feedback... What to change or add (this is no where near done both in editing as well as content.) Looking for anything really. I've been writing for an hour and my hands are tired so this is what I have for tonight.


Why you shouldn’t buy that puppy in the window.

When I was young we wanted a Golden Retriever. My parents had gotten divorced and clearly the next logical step to patching up that hole in the family is to but a pet, right? (Wrong. This is a TERRIBLE idea unless you are truly prepared for a puppy!) So my little 8 year old self scoured the newspaper classified section searching for my new puppy. After many failed attempts of convincing my father into calling one of these “breeders” out of the newspaper… My next idea was a pet store. The newspaper and petstores. That’s where puppies come from, right? We walk into a store where there are probbly about 8-10 childrens cribs filled with about 3-4 puppies each. I drag my father around searching for my Goldie. Nothing, nada. He asks the sales woman if they have any Goldens and she replies “no, but we can order one for you.” (Just like stock in a store.)

Once my father hears the price of his special order Golden Retriever, I’m dragged out of the puppy store and into the car faster than I can whip up a good crying tantrum about how it’s just not fair that we can’t get a puppy from the store.

Looking back at this memory, the thought sickens me. Cribs filled with puppies? “Ordering” me a puppy? $1,599 on some puppymill puppy?! But I can’t blame myself, or my parents. We just didn’t know. People out of the newspaper were breeders, and pet stores have been around as long as my childhood self can remember. People bought puppies from these places all the time. Are there other options? Of course there are.

But before I get ahead of myself, let’s tackle the issue of why we shouldn’t have even considered a puppy from either of those sources (the newspaper or puppy stores, but we can throw in the internet to bring us to current times.) First off, where are these precious puppies who are displayed in boxes or cribs even coming from? The majority of them are being purchased from commercial breeders, or “puppymills.” These places can house thousands of dogs and puppies at a time, the dogs are given just enough space to give birth and nurse their puppies. The cages are usually wire bottom cages, sometimes lifted above the ground so the fecal matter can fall through the grate (most of it anyway, the rest will cake itself on the wire bottom of the cage and onto its occupants extremities and fur.) The bitches (female dogs) are generally bred as early in life as possible and as often as possible. This puts a horrible physical stress on the dog and they usually decline in health very quickly. During that time of declining health, anxiety, and exhaustion they are still bred and are still pumping out puppies like some sort of machine. As a result their litters become smaller and sicklier as their mothers body simply cannot provide enough nutrition for their fragile developing bodies and minds.

So now we have a litter of puppies born from a very unhealthy and anxiety ridden bitch… They now spent their next 5-6 weeks of life in a very loud kennel full of unnatural sounds. Screaming puppies whos legs are caught in the bottom of their cages, anxious first time mothers panicking and pacing, starving litters of puppies trying to nurse off of their mother who isn’t healthy enough to produce milk… That’s a pretty rough start to life. Puppies mature and grow in stages. Being in a stressful and just downright scary situation like this for their first 6 weeks of life doesn’t produce a sound stable puppy, this is their mental blueprint for the rest of it’s life.

Usually at around 5-6 weeks the puppies can be weaned from their mother and technically can survive without her as they can consume their own food (such as dry kibble.) Unfortunately the last 2-3 weeks of time with mother and littermates that man is depriving these puppies of… is the most essential and important early stage of life for the puppy and it’s social development. But these are commercial breeders, and that is just precious time and money that cannot be "wasted" on something like "social development."

Sounds good so far. I would replace "bitch" with mother, since the audience you're aiming at probably doesn't know the terms "bitch" and "dog" (as in male dogs).

I'm sure you're going to add more later. What are you writing this for?

For myself mostly, i'm thinking of putting together a website of some sort down the road... But I was inspired to write it after this english bulldog puppy at work had to be PTS today due to his health defects and general structural deformities. He was a Puppy Palace puppy, and not even 6 months old.

That's sad.

Do you know how to make good websites? I figured I need to learn how to since I'm on my kennel club's website committee! lol. They want to make a new one.

Not at all! My brother can... so i'm waiting for him to be in a good mood to ask him for help.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but there are a lot of sources out there that talk about the horrors of puppy mills and why you shouldn't buy from a pet shop or a bad breeder, because most people who know what goes on there are very vocal and very passionate about it (for obvious reasons) but what often gets glossed over is how to find a reputable breeder, where to look at puppies, and how to get in contact with people.

It may be that the resources aren't that good out there to really give you that same experience, but even when we were looking for dogs for our household, I looked and saw several appeals just like yours, but the focus was on why not to buy from there, not on where to actually go to buy a dog. For the most part, we got told that we shouldn't spend $1,500 to encourage these people to keep breeding dogs like that, but to go to a rescue (where the dogs were likely bread at one of these places) and adopt. In the end, we did adopt, but there was a lot of concern about the condition of the dogs mentally, simply because of the possible bad conditions they were brought up in.

I'd love to see a website that had your story on it, as a side link, that people can read if they need to see why not to get one of those dogs, but the main value of the site is giving you information about reputable breeders, separated (and searchable) by breed. Obviously that sort of site would be open to more legal issues, would take a lot more bandwidth, as well as more difficult coding (mysql/php, sql/aspx), better hardware and the bottom line, more money.

I don't mean this to be negative, just giving my .02 as feedback.

It would be nice if there was a website listing reputable breeders even just in sibes. There is the SHCA's list, but that is VERY limited. I only know the people I see at shows and it's hard for me to find out if there are reputable sibe breeders around. Took me a while to even realize one lady actually lives only 20mins away from me! But I had to find that out from her at a show, there was no place to look it up.

I did find one website where it seemed like the creator was trying to do just that, but they obviously didn't actually know what makes a reputable breeder and were just trying to stay away from puppy mills. So they had a ton of BYB's and boarder line puppy mills listed on their site. They did have a few good breeders, but too few. And the classified ads on AKC is just a joke too.

That is very well written Kristina! I can't wait to see the final piece.

I do agree with Domingo & Sara that you should add responsible breeders in as well! That would have helped with my search so much if it was available when we were looking for Hayden. Also, in my area, there really isn't a Husky rescue and to adopt a Husky you have to go out of state and they usually don't adopt dog's out of state, so adoption for us wasn't really an option. There was one, but they don't have enough people to help run it, so it's down for the time being .

Anyway, I'm all for this idea and think it would be awesome to see a website like this and give the public more information on the breed before they purchase etc.

For VA, there are a couple husky rescues, just none in NOVA. We went to bowling green, va to adopt Dante from Pet Harbor, just as an FYI for anyone looking in VA.

Elara's breeder moved to VA last year. so very far from FL.

I would like some input on this issue as well....I don't want to step on toes, or sound ugly but, my issue with rescues and breeders is this:

(In our area atleast)

Our breeder that we got kya from (we did not pay for her, mind you) is a reputable breeder who breeds every 2 years, and sells her puppy for about 250 to 500 dollars, depending on demand and piebald coloring, etc. I don't see anything wrong with the supply and demand issue as long as you are doing it responsibly. And she will make sure she has GOOD homes for all puppies before she breeds (including vet references, house checks etc). I don't think that that price is too high and I believe that she is going about it the right way.

HOWEVER,
Every shelter (no kill) and rescue here charges between 500 to a grand for DOGS. Not puppies. We had a BYB/puppymill busted here. It was all pomeranians. The gulf coast human society took them all (over 500) and none were under 2 years old. Each pom was 650$ to 800$. That is RIDICULOUS. I understand that they need money to keep their shelter running, but seriously? And then they wonder why these dogs sit in their shelter for 2+ years. THEN, and ONLY then, if they have been at the shelter for more than 3 years, they are considered "lifers" and the fee goes down to 150$. Even the mutts they pick up are atleast 250$.

We have a rescue here that the lady is not a rescuer, she is pretty much a horder. It is almost IMPOSSIBLE to adopt from her (I was turned down 4 times, once because I didn't know the EXACT gram dosage that a 20 pound dog should take of HW medication. My response to that was "I buy the correct dosage at the vets office", and twice because my animal switched vets, meaning I didn't care enough to keep one permanent vet). I have heard horror stories about people adopting a pet and then them coming and taking it back bc Ernie made up some BS reason. And her dogs start at 150 for mixed breeds (common ones) to 800$ for "exotic" dog breeds. EXOTIC?!

I think the problem in our area with BYB and puppy stores is that if the SHELTER/RESCUES can treat people badly and charge outragous prices, then it's okay for them to go spend that money at a BYB where atleast they are getting a puppy they want. (THIS IS NOT MY VIEW BUT THE ATTITUDE HERE).

I would prefer to go to a breeder like Kya's parents over a rescue or shelter here, because of the way the animals live and the prices they charge. Before we got Kya, I looked into a 7 year old maltese. We didn't take him when we were told his fee was 655 dollars.


Am I faulty for this way of thinking?

Domingo wrote:

For VA, there are a couple husky rescues, just none in NOVA. We went to bowling green, va to adopt Dante from Pet Harbor, just as an FYI for anyone looking in VA.

I discovered pet harbor the other day when I was searching rescues

Right now we have cats in our home and most the Huskies I've come across in rescues don't like cats and we have a daycare as well and the ones I saw weren't good to have with young kids. So, I'm glad we ended up going with a puppy, but I will look into adopting in the future

[quote="Hayden_69"]
I discovered pet harbor the other day when I was searching rescues

[quote]

I love pet harbor. I like that they have pets that petfinder wont list!

We were pretty happy with pet harbor. I will say, their interviews with our references were pretty long and prying (asked our trainer and my parents about our marriage, if we were a good couple, if we fought a lot, if there was a chance we'd divorce, etc), but even with arranging a house visit, making the calls and setting up a time to meet Dante, it was about 2 weeks between us putting in an application and us taking Dante home.

Very well written Kristina. I know you're not finished and hope you will include ways of finding reputable breeders and the ideas of rescuing/adopting.

That's very good Kristina. I like the way you start with personal experience and move to the more general. I think there is a real need for information about where people should go to get dogs. I think the average person doesn't know how to tell a responsible breeder (tbh I'm not sure I would without taking advice from others, even though I know the things to look out for I would still want advice).

Those prices of $800 that Tiffany mentions for rescues are crazy. Round here, I think most rescues and the municipal animal controls charge around 250-300 (CAD). There is a local independent rescue that is still operating though even though the owner is facing 25 charges (fraud, break and enter) and the police allege she has been stealing dogs from people's yards to then sell on as 'rescues'. It must make it hard for people to know which places are actually good to get a dog from.

The article in full will touch on reputable breeders, where to start looking, and how to obtain the perfect kind of pet for the individual family. I literally just stopped writing here, posted it, and fell asleep. Lol

Tiffany-- While I don't condone that point of view (as you said you don't either) I do understand it when areas are so poorly educated and are subject to those types of organizations.

HOWEVER, if I lived there, I would travel further to find a reputable shelter or reputable breeder. I would still only buy from a breeder that shows or works their dogs because the litter came into the world for a reason OTHER than creating puppies for the purpose of selling. I don't believe in breeders charging money just to create puppies. I would rather buy a puppy that wasn't suited to the work/show life from a breeder who was looking for one that was, than from a breeder who just wants to create puppies to sell.

I would also still rescue over buy from a breeder, but that's me. I would travel hours to find the right dog at the right shelter. I understand most can't, but I won't support a business or organization that is not in it for the best interests of the dogs and as you said, those organizations don't seem to be.

Just my

Ghost wrote:

Those prices of $800 that Tiffany mentions for rescues are crazy. Round here, I think most rescues and the municipal animal controls charge around 250-300 (CAD). There is a local independent rescue that is still operating though even though the owner is facing 25 charges (fraud, break and enter) and the police allege she has been stealing dogs from people's yards to then sell on as 'rescues'. It must make it hard for people to know which places are actually good to get a dog from.

Ernie of "PeeWee's" does that. She has been caught on tape stealing dogs she has adopted out back, AND stealing dogs from other people. It is disgusting.


Kristina--I completely agree. Which is why I LOVE Kya's breeders. They are a friend's family and both mother and father were show dogs. (They no longer are because when the hurricane hit in houston, paperwork was lost during the floods and some other things that they didn't discuss with us happened and they no longer show them). I really loved that she required vet checks, home visits and that atleast 8 people were QUALITY owners before she even thought about breeding. This is the way my mom was when she bred boxers, so I guess that's just IMO.

The closest husky rescue to us is in Dallas, and they wont adopt out this far, bc they too require home checks etc. I WISH I could, because I would adopt from THR in a heart beat.


I just wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one that thought that the rescues here were ridiculous. I felt bad for saying no, but there is NO way I'm going to pay 500+ for a 7 year old dog.

There are good rescues and bad ones. Ones that put all their dogs in foster homes and others that just keep them out on a piece of property in a kennel. Those that will take any dog and those that will only take puppies. Around here you can get a dog from the shelter for about $75, but if they are already fixed, only $5! The rescue fees are usually $150 to $250. I agree that $600 to $800 is crazy!

I went to a pet store today looking for something and left with nothing after seeing this store..

They had pets suppose to be rescue up for adoption they were asking 585 dollars for a persion cat. 200- 300 dollars for some dogs in the back.. They also had sign saying they were looking for rescue pets..

This store turned me off completely they do sell TOTW but I can get it else where I will not be going back..

the store smelled and the real thing that turned me off was the albino snake in the back ( hate snakes to no end sorry don't mean to often those that like them) they were asking 500.00 for the snake.

I really never knew anything about rescues till about 2 years ago. When I got my first dog on my own I went to our local shelter. I got lady my first husky she cost me 40 bucks and her first check up and groomers was free. I found my 2nd husky in the paper for free with akc papers.
When I decided to get a GSD I started looking on the internet and was just floored by what breeders wanted for one. So I looked on pet finders and was shocked by the prices they wanted and then I went to the papers. Then I came across recuses and was still surprised at the cost. Then the requirements you have to go through. Well I already knew I would pass any home inspections or anything.
So I ended up on CL and found Nero for free. Thor was given to me so he was free. Thor's first owners bought him at a puppy store called puppy town for 1200.00 and he is not even akc.

So I think if the cost of these people were much much lower I think people would go to them more often. At least I think they would.

After reading this today, I met a family at the pet store with a husky in their arms looking a crates. $1100... from Kansas according to the uninformed salesman (puppy mill, I would guess). We talked a long time about huskies and I gave her my email address. This could become a LONG story! I think the mom left that little husky. Wonder if she will email me? Let's just hope for the best...

I'm with Linda... I should just stay out of the stores that sell puppies...

My pet store of choice closes at 6:00 so we thought we would just wander in this one to look for a dog biking attachment. This store never has anything we use anyway...

In the mood to write today...

Any feedback or additional detail (SaraB i'm talking you with the breeder stuff!) is always welcomed Again, this isn't completed nor edited and is very much a rough draft. This is a continuation from the OP.


Usually at around 5-6 weeks the puppies can be weaned from their mother and technically can survive without her as they can consume their own food (such as dry kibble.) Unfortunately the last 2-3 weeks of time with mother and litter mates that man is depriving these puppies of… is the most essential and important early stage of life for the puppy and it’s social development. But these are commercial breeders, and that is just precious time and money that cannot be "wasted" on something like "social development." Although some states have passed legislation that puppies cannot be sold prior to 7 or 8 weeks old (8-12 weeks would be optimal.) Usually where these puppymills are located, commercial breeding laws are weak if there are any. Removing a litter from it’s mother too early (or selling puppies too young) doesn’t just occur with puppymills. Regardless of where you purchase your puppy from, be sure they are at least 8 weeks old.

Why is this development period so important?

At 4 weeks old they are able to begin bonding with humans, a responsible breeder will gently handle them and get them used to human contact. This is a crucial stage in their development and it should be as peaceful and uneventful as possible. A puppy raised in a puppymill will have no postive human interaction at all during this time. If anything their environment will negatively effect them and create fearful puppies. At 5-7 weeks of age they are beginning to be able to hold their bowl movements and the foundation of housebreaking is usually taught by a responsible breeder. Puppymill puppies do not have the luxury of moving to a different area to pass their bowels as there isn’t much room in their cages. Puppies are also beginning to wean onto soft foods but are still nursing from their mother. This extra time nursing from mom is providing extra nourishment as well as healthy antibodies, creating stronger healthier puppies. Puppies who are taken away during this time are missing out on all of this and as a result are usually weaker, less healthy, and not as developed. Finally up until around 8 weeks they are learning how to be a dog. Important social skills are being learned from their littermates and mom. They are learning how rough is “too rough” and when biting becomes painful.

Puppies who don’t learn these skills can often become bullies or be very fearful of other dogs and humans. They haven’t been properly socalized and are unsure how to act around other dogs. They usually can’t correctly read signs that other dogs are giving them as well as aren’t giving the correct signs to other dogs. With heavy socalization and consistent owners these can be worked through, but it is much more effective to have the litter do this when they are still babies. Most people end up giving up and returning the dog to a shelter because they can’t keep up with the demands of an undersocalized dog/puppy.


So, OK. We get it, the puppies from conditions like these are not going to be the most stable socalized puppies around...

Right, but it’s not only that. These puppies have been bred from mothers and fathers who you have never seen, and probably never will. You have no idea of the history on this puppy or it’s parentage. Were it’s parents healthy? Did they have cataracts? Or hip dysplasia? Or elbow dysplaisa? Or any other genetic problem associated with your breed of choice? Quite honestly i’m sure the people who bred them have no idea. Because their requirements for breeding are having a male and a female. These problems can’t be that common though, right? Unfortunately, they are with puppies who are bred from untested parents. Responsible breeders make a point to test their breeding stock (parents) and their parents and their parents were also tested. These are healthy, sound animals with very minimal if any health issues. Be aware: vet checked is NOT the same thing as health tested! Health tests and screens will have scores and grading. Not just an “OK” from their vet of choice.

What about the breeders I see advertising on craigslist/ ebay/ the newspaper/ the dog park..?

All breeders are not created equal, most are either classified as “reputable breeders” or “backyard breeders.” Your neighbor who just had a litter of the cutest Labradors would probably fall into the “backyard breeder” category while the woman who trials her Shepherds in agility and schutzhund would most likely be considered a “reputable breeder.” What the heck is the difference... they’re both breeding their dogs, right?! Right! But! Generally a backyard breeder is breeding to: Let their female have a litter before spaying her or because it’s “good for her,” wanting a puppy, wanting to make money, wanting a specific color puppy, or liking the breed. On the other hand a reputable breeder is breeding to: better the breed, pass down desirable traits/atributes, continue a line of successful dogs, improve structure/temperament/workability of current breeding dogs... See the difference?

But I don’t want a show/working/sport dog! I just want a companion!

Reputable breeders don’t produce 100% show/working/sport dogs every time all the time. Puppies are usually handpicked by the breeder within in the first few weeks of life to who would be good show/working/sport dogs and which would be better in “pet” homes for one reason or another (their ears may be too far set for the show ring or their drive isn’t there, but you’re looking for a pet, remember?) They spend a lot of time with their litters and begin to know their personalities very quickly. They are often very helpful when you are looking for a puppy in helping you choose the perfect one for your individual family. A bonus from getting a puppy from a breeder like this is that these dogs parents have all been health tested and the puppies have been given the best foundation for a healthy life. This is the kind of puppy you want to invest in. These people protect their puppies and usually will 100% take back the puppy at any point in it’s life if you cannot keep them anymore. They take responsibility for the puppies they bring into this world.

Backyard breeders usually do not health test their dogs. Most don’t because they simply don’t know. Their dogs are usually breed too young, or too often. Most are sold to whomever has the cash to pay. Some don’t take them for checkups with a vet or sell them too young. Some may not even know who the father was. If i’m purchasing a puppy I want to know as much as possible about them and their parents as well as know that i’m getting a healthy puppy. Backyard breeders cannot provide this.

But this puppies parents are registered with AKC/UKC/CKC Doesn’t that mean anything?

There are many pet registries around. Some only for certain breeds (such as ABCA for Border Collies) and others for any breed that they recognize (AKC, UKC, CKC...) For the majority of registries the only purpose they serve is to keep a record of “purebred” dogs that have been bred from other purebred dogs who were also registered. A dog who is AKC registered does not have to be healthy, structurally sound, or have a good temperament. All it means is that it’s parents were registered with the registry and are purebred. Purebred does not mean well bred! Just for some perspective, many puppy store (and subsequently puppymill) puppies are registered.

OK OK So what SHOULD I be looking for?! And WHERE should I be looking?!

Finding a puppy from a reputable breeder will not happen overnight. It is certainly not an instant satisfaction experience... The first place to start looking would be your breed of choice’s breed club (for example the Siberian Husky Club of America.) There is nearly always a list of “referral breeders” who practice responsible breeding and follow the “clubs” code of ethics. Look for your state, or a state close to you and contact the breeders. Explain what you’re looking for and ask for help or if they have any upcoming breedings planned. Most will only breed once a year or once every other year. These are not puppy factories. Usually if they don’t have anything planned soon, they will direct you to someone who may. Another option would be to visit dog shows and keep an eye out for breeds you are interested in. You can talk with them and see what kind of dogs they are breeding as well as see if they have anything planned. It’s also a good opportunity to see if showing would be any interest to you. If you have your eyes set on a sporting breed, you can also check out trials that those breeds would be entered in.

Most places will require a deposit to hold a puppy as well as a contract. Some even require an application. This is not to make you feel you are “less” of a person or they have “control”... understand that they truly love their breed and love their dogs. They want to be sure you will love them just as much and hopefully more! You want to see a clause in the contract that at any point they will take the dog back or help to place is.

Check to be sure the breeding parents (and their parents) have been health tested for genetic health problems that the breed is prone to (such as hip and elbow dysplaisa in German Shepherds or luxating patellas in Chihuahuas.) You can always ask to see results. Ask how many breeding males/females they have and how often they have litters. A reputable breeder will answer most to all questions with no problems. They will want you to be informed and willing to learn. A responsible breeder will not advertise things such as “all blue eyes!” or “all white litter!” these are signs that they are breeding for looks which is something to avoid, as there are a lot more important things to a puppy than it’s looks!

arooroomom wrote:

For myself mostly, i'm thinking of putting together a website of some sort down the road... But I was inspired to write it after this english bulldog puppy at work had to be PTS today due to his health defects and general structural deformities. He was a Puppy Palace puppy, and not even 6 months old.

Well good for you, Kristina...it's a good read.

I've heard of Puppy Palace...there was one when I lived in AL. Unfortunately...that place always had business.