Axel is pretty well behaved but there are some things he needs to work on and Ive been reading up on NILIF and I was wondering if a 6 year old is too old to "teach new tricks"?

No dog is to old to learn tricks and/or behaviors. You just need to be aware that a Husky can be stubborn as hell, so breathe deep when you reach the point of wanting to slap him one because it won't work that way.

Here4thePics wrote:

No dog is to old to learn tricks and/or behaviors. You just need to be aware that a Husky can be stubborn as hell, so breathe deep when you reach the point of wanting to slap him one because it won't work that way.

Lol yea I totally get that, but I think it helps that I have loads of patience, I have 6 kids so yea patience is a must, and consistency :p

Age doesn't matter. "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" is a myth.

NILIF is a phenomenal training method that is less "training" and more a way of life for you and your dog. At 6, she may take a LITTLE longer to pick up on it, but because it's incorporated into everything you do, it won't be as much of an adjustment as you might think

Kudos to you! NILIF is not only a great training method but it really helps you and your dog to bond

What is NILIF?

dahowlers wrote:

What is NILIF?

Nothing In Life Is Free

What about too early? Within the first paragraph of NILF training it says that you should ignore your dog when he/she demands attention because that put's them in the alpha dog mindset.

Would this apply to a pup 10 week old pup? I didn't think I had to worry about him trying to become the alpha for at least another few months.

alex.demskie wrote:

What about too early? Within the first paragraph of NILF training it says that you should ignore your dog when he/she demands attention because that put's them in the alpha dog mindset.

Would this apply to a pup 10 week old pup? I didn't think I had to worry about him trying to become the alpha for at least another few months.

It's never too early! the earlier the better. Your dog begins learning the second it walks through your front door for the first time. Everything is a building block for later.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogrules.htm

^^ i highly recommend reading that. Little things that seem insignificant now can make for trouble later if you aren't on top of it from day one

NILIF is fine at any age; dogs can keep on learning. LIke Len said, huskies are stubborn so you need patience, but so long as you are consistent then they will learn as they are very intelligent dogs.

I'm going to disagree about the alpha/dominance thing. It's based on outdated theories of wolf behaviour, that only apply to wolves in captivity and not to the way that wild wolves behave. Dogs don't spend all their time trying to be dominant; but there might be lots of other reasons that they don't do what you say (excitement, fear, something else is more fun, or they didn't learn the rules yet, for example). It doesn't matter if your dog eats before you or goes through doors before you or wins a game of tug-of-war, it depends how you want to structure things. Teaching them to wait before going through a door is fine, but it's teaching good manners, not establishing dominance.

Ghost wrote:

I'm going to disagree about the alpha/dominance thing. It's based on outdated theories of wolf behaviour, that only apply to wolves in captivity and not to the way that wild wolves behave. Dogs don't spend all their time trying to be dominant; but there might be lots of other reasons that they don't do what you say (excitement, fear, something else is more fun, or they didn't learn the rules yet, for example). It doesn't matter if your dog eats before you or goes through doors before you or wins a game of tug-of-war, it depends how you want to structure things. Teaching them to wait before going through a door is fine, but it's teaching good manners, not establishing dominance.

+1 from me! Very well said!

Ghost wrote:

I'm going to disagree about the alpha/dominance thing. It's based on outdated theories of wolf behaviour, that only apply to wolves in captivity and not to the way that wild wolves behave. Dogs don't spend all their time trying to be dominant; but there might be lots of other reasons that they don't do what you say (excitement, fear, something else is more fun, or they didn't learn the rules yet, for example). It doesn't matter if your dog eats before you or goes through doors before you or wins a game of tug-of-war, it depends how you want to structure things. Teaching them to wait before going through a door is fine, but it's teaching good manners, not establishing dominance.

That is kinda paradigm-shifting to me. All I've been taught is the theory that my dog is constantly battling me for leadership, and if I am weak for a second, he will take over and get out of control. Is there a website or book where I can read more info on your point of view, by any chance?

I think what Ghost is saying is that she instils NILIF with the intention of gaining and teaching their dog to respect them, other than trying to dominant them. When your dog respects you, they are far more likely to listen to your commands and look to you for guidance. NILIF is a lifestyle, and a positive reinforcement training method that is very effective at allowing you to teach them to look to you for affection and all of their needs. When they know what is expected of them they are far less likely to act out (as much ) Someone else that is more experienced might chime in and explain better lol

Alindaris wrote:

That is kinda paradigm-shifting to me. All I've been taught is the theory that my dog is constantly battling me for leadership, and if I am weak for a second, he will take over and get out of control. Is there a website or book where I can read more info on your point of view, by any chance?

Thanks for the question. You're right, it is a big shift in thinking about dogs. The original ideas of dominance came from studies of captive wolves, in which a lot of fighting for position was observed. However, these wolves had been put in a group by people and would not have lived together in nature. In fact some of the wolves in the group were seen spending a lot of time at the perimeter that suggests they would have left if they had the opportunity.

It also turns out that wild wolves don't behave in the same way as captive wolves. A pack of wild wolves is formed when a pair breed. In the past this pair would have been called the 'alpha' but it's more correct to call them the breeding pair. Dave Mech (famous wolf researcher) has a short video about this on his website
here. You can read more about why wolf studies dispute alpha theory here.

Of course, dogs are also not wolves. Studies of feral dogs don't support alpha/dominance theory either as the dogs don't seem to live in consistent packs. For example they might pair up briefly and then separate. Also there isn't a consistent hierarchy. Studies of domestic dogs interacting with each other show that they learn from interactions, and aren't constantly trying to dominate other dogs. You can read a nice report about that here.

There is a great book by John Bradshaw called Dog Sense that goes into all this in detail; he's a scientist but the book is very readable. Although it's currently just hardback or kindle, the paperback version is due out in a few weeks.

Sorry for the length of my reply! I can share other links/references if you want them.

hypers987 wrote:

I think what Ghost is saying is that she instils NILIF with the intention of gaining and teaching their dog to respect them, other than trying to dominant them. When your dog respects you, they are far more likely to listen to your commands and look to you for guidance. NILIF is a lifestyle, and a positive reinforcement training method that is very effective at allowing you to teach them to look to you for affection and all of their needs. When they know what is expected of them they are far more likely to act out (as much ) Someone else that is more experienced might chime in and explain better lol

Yes I would say that it is about respect and leadership rather than dominance. What I like about NILIF is that it provides many opportunities for positive reinforcement, that teach the dog how to behave, and that these are built into normal everyday interactions. Also it's applied in a consistent way, and consistency is very important in dog training (especially with an intelligent dog that will learn if it can get away with things). Personally I wouldn't (and don't) apply it to all interactions, simply because I think my dog should be able to come up to me for affection; so I think you can take it too far (I am sure many on this forum would disagree with me on that and that's okay; all I would teach Ghost is not to bother coming because he'd have to put some effort in!!!). NILIF sets clear expectations for the dog in a positive way. I'm all for positive training methods because I think in the long run they work better.

hypers987 wrote:

He's still a puppy and is gonna test his boundaries with you. Stay strong and consistent. Your doing a great job! Kale would misbehave for 30-45 mins EVERY night and be very stubborn when he was Sabaka's age. He would bark and dig at the floor and be a nuisance while I sat at the computer ignoring him. Inside i wanted to scream at him and toss him in his crate but I knew I had to stay strong and calm or he would never learn. When he realized his antics weren't gonna get him what he wanted he would lay down at my feet and fall asleep. THEN i would lean over and give him attention. They are just like toddlers throwing a tantrum. If the time-outs are working then keep going, he's getting the message he's just being a stubborn husky lol

^from another post from this thread https://www.itsahuskything.com/t2529-nilif-training?highlight=NILIF

That's the only time I used the NILIF for affection, in instances where Kale was being a brat and misbehaving. I love positive reinforcement training methods! I see too many pets come though where I work (especially shepherds) that are trained with negative reinforcement and they are so fearful and distrusting, it's really sad.

Awesome article I jst came across > Is NILIF Nasty?

Reading this, I'm definitely more Premack than hardcore NILIF.

Thank you guys so much for all the info so quick!! I am a bit of an academic, so lots of links and things to read don't scare me. ;-) I love it! I'll be reading Dog Sense soon. I can see I have a lot to learn about training! It makes sense that dogs and wolves would be different, even if dogs came from wolves in the distant past. Each dog is an individual, though, so it seems that it's important to learn what works for your relationship and stay consistent with that.
Thanks again! I'll be back after I've read all those goodies!

Brooke, I couldn't get your Is NILIF Nasty link to work (it took me to the same link as in the previous post) but I think I know the page you mean. I agree with you, I find it really sad to see dogs that are fearful.

Deana, you are right that every dog is an individual. I think dog trainers need lots of tricks up their sleeves so that if one thing doesn't work as well as hoped, there is something else to try! My two dogs are so different (the other one is not a husky but an exciteable herding dog) and with some things (like walking nicely on a leash) they have learnt it from different methods. And the challenges are different because we all know huskies are so clever but they do have a mind of their own!

Ghost wrote:

Brooke, I couldn't get your Is NILIF Nasty link to work (it took me to the same link as in the previous post) but I think I know the page you mean. I agree with you, I find it really sad to see dogs that are fearful.

Link fixed! Sry bout that! lol

ETA- This book is really good > The Power of Positive Dog Training

I thought that was the link you meant! And don't worry, I've done that before.

That book is in my pile to read but I haven't got round to it yet. I think I'll move it to the top of the pile!