im jus cnt seem to control my dog when were out on a walk if i have him on a collar he chokes himself if i use his harness he pulls me ive tryed treats and the touch method nothing seems to be working ive also tryed a hati head thing but he hates its and i feel cruel using it has anyone got any ideas or had simliar problems

Most dogs don't like the head collars, it's an unnatural feeling. While I know most people in the UK don't like pinch/prong collars that would be my next suggestion. They are farily easy to use but it's very important to learn how to use it appropriately as well as safely. This is also a tool you need to ease into and get the dog used to having it worn.

Have you tried changing directions while walking? Or perhaps teaching him how to heel?

What's the hati head thing?

My first suggestion is this thing: http://www.buygentleleader.com/View.aspx?page=dogs/products/behavior/gentleleader/description
SInce they are racing sled dogs, I use it so that they learn that any outfit that touches their neck or chest means pull pull pull; the outfit around their snout means walk nicely next to mommy. It's worked like a champ since the moment I put it on. I like that it has made it a BREEZE for me to walk them, without compromising their natural inclination to pull, therefore not softening their pulling tendencies when in front of a sled.

If that's the hati head thing you're talking about, though, try this type of harness: http://www.buygentleleader.com/View.aspx?page=dogs/products/behavior/easywalk/productdescription

This is what I used with Boris (who was a year old, HUGE, and had no leash training before I got him) and he was heeling nice within 2 days. Within a month, I was able to walk him loose leash, attaching the leash to his collar instead of using this harness. It's different from a regular harness because it has a martingale concept in their chest/front area between their front legs. So when they pull, the martigale tightens and basically naturally forces them to circle back to you, which causes them to look to you for direction. They key is that you don't pull against them with this harness on. When they pull, yoiu simple stop, let the martigale do it's job, get him set next to you again and try again.

Huskies can be hard to train in regular harnesses because harnesses are working gear. It's gear that tells them it's time to work, which for them is PULL. So if the gentle leader isn't going to work out, try the easy harness.

The other thing you can try is a training choke collar http://www.101-dog-training-tips.com/Dog_Training_Collars/Dog_Training_collar.shtml
like that one, but instead of letting it go to the base of the neck, keep it positioned at the very base of the skull, pretty much at a 45-degree angle up and out from his mouth. That will give you better control of him because the neck/chest area is their strongest area, whereas you have lots of control from the top of the neck/base of the skull. The only problem with these collars is that I have found a constant need to stop and adjust that really gets lame. I went from this product to the first one I recommended (the gentle leader) and love it. My pup has no issues with it, as he's been on it since he was about 12 weeks old. My 2 and ahalf y/o girl fought against it for the first 5 min or so that it was on for about a week. When she paws at it now, I always end up realizing that one of the settings is wrong -- either that the part that goes around the snout has come all the way loose or that the part that goes around her head is too far down on her neck instead of at the base of her skull.

James and Kaylie -

Just so you get an idea ... if you can work through the initial issues with the gentle leader ... this is your reward: this photo was taken Thursday night. Volya is the 6 month old pup on the outside, Danika is the 2 1/2 y-o on the inside, I am at Danika's right shoulder. Neither of them lets their front shoulder go past my hip unless I tell them "free time" or if I have them in their harnesses/collars that go around their necks and chests and we are training. I had just told them "gee" which is why they are looking to the right, and even though I'm using our mushing commands with them during our walks, they still know not to pull in the gentle leader "outfit."

They always walk side by side on my left side (so 2 huskies being controlled by one arm/hand) and thanks to this gentle leader thing, I NEVER have a problem. The best part: I even walk them both with a glass of wine without spilling a single drop. I'm not singing my dogs' praises here, I'm singing this product's praises lol

I would suggest you read everything you can find, both pros and cons for a harness, a gentle leader (or halti), a choke collar and a prong (or pinch) collar.

My initial reaction after reading up on all of the above (and actually trying a product similar to each) is that the gentle leader will feel very unnatural to the dog. It will feel "funny" until they get used to it and it makes people think you have a mean dog, since many non-dog people will confuse it for a muzzle. I also fear a whip-lash if the dog charges after a squirrel of something, like huskies are prone to do.

I think the choke collar on a husky is the least humane of all of the products I've tried or read about. Even when I was using it properly under the supervision of an instructor, my husky would continue to pull, passing out once and throwing up twice.

If the prong collar is being used correctly, the dog will walk on a loose lead and never know it's there. If, however, the dog takes off he will get a reminder that he must walk nicely. I use this collar on occasion, usually when I can tell it's just gonna be "one of those walks" because he's wound up before he even starts! I immediately switch the lead to his regular collar if he meets a loose dog or a "friend" because even this collar will not prevent him from playing. Most of the negative reviews for this product online say that it looks "medieval"... yes, it does...

I also initially chose not to use a harness because I read that the harness triggers the desire to "pull". After using the harness, I did not find that to be true at all. We bought the harness for hiking and have ended up using it for most every walk now. I LOVE it... but I can also see Hillary's point that her dogs think the harness means "pull" because they are working dogs.

I used to freeze a cheese stick and hold it down at my thigh for the dog to nibble as he learned the proper "heel" position. The cheese worked better than treats... but I think he just thought about the cheese and not about his walking etiquette...

Good Luck!

HAHAH! That's awesome about the cheese stick. I used to do the same thing with Boris (but with his fav liver treats) so that he was always focused on me (looking up at me, wondering when I'd release a morsel) instead of running around like a crazy dog once I got him to loose leash stage.

The gentle leader will DEFINITELY feel unnatural to the dog initially. Then again, the first time Volya had been touched by a collar or leash was the day I brought him home at 10 weeks old and man, did he put on a dramatic show -- screaming, flopping around, throwing himself on the ground ... my two friends who were with us actually got embarrassed by him and kept walking with their dogs to make it look like they weren't with us lol. But I just stopped and let him throw a fit without saying a word or moving a muscle and 10 minutes later, that was the one and only fit he ever threw. We caught up to my friends and had a nice pack walk with no further incidents of protest. ... Point being that the first introduction to just about any contraption we put on our dogs will elicit a reaction because it's foreign to them.

I was afraid of the whiplash thing, too, and have many times encountered squirrels and cats and small dogs while we are walking. There are two tips here: a) always be on the alert so that you see these prey animals before they do -- or at least right when they do -- and issue a firm "leave it" to dissuade any reaction from them to the prey; b) if you miss one and they react, the gentle leader is designed to be just that -- gentle. When they have lunged, their heads have merely been turned to the side, but the way these things are designed, there's not enough opposite force to the force they are outputting to cause them harm. When they lunge, it merely gently guides their nose towards you, which stops the reaction. You aren't supposed to give a firm yank on these things like you do with martingale collars, pinch collars, etc. They are designed for you to have pretty much no reaction to their behavior and to let the product do its job on its own. The furthest I've had to go with the gentle leader was once when Volya REALLY WANTED to meet a little kid who was cooing at him, but the mom was scared (you have all heard it ... "omg, is that a WOLF?!?") so I didn't want him to go to the kid since the mom was freaked out and him being a pup, well, he has that excited husky greeting thing... so when he was acting crazy, all i did was lift my arm, which caused his nose to go in the air, and for him to sit within a second of his nose being pointed upward.

I also know what you mean about it being mistaken for a muzzle. The first day I used it, I had the fastener on the part that goes around the snout too tight, so they weren't able to open their mouths all the way. I realized this error and corrected it by moving the fastener down to no more than an inch from the loop where you attach their leash. That not only allows them to open their mouths fully (therefore anyone with half a brain cell knows it mustn't be a muzzle if their mouth is all the way open ... and if they don't have half a brain cell, who the hell cares what they think, anyways ... the village idiot is not allowed consideration), but it also makes it more comfortable for them without losing any control.

Anyway ... as y'all can probably tell ... I ADORE working with huskies and figuring them out. Of all the things I have done in my life (foreign travel, flying planes, counter-terrorism, learning foreign languages and using them for military intelligence jobs, etc) -- working with huskies and figuring them out is by far my favorite and most rewarding. So forgive me if I go on too much lol

I think Lisa's post was fantastic, nice job!

I would second her advice to do your research on the different methods and devices you have to work with. When using training aides such as the head collar, check chain, or prong collar it is very important that they are fitted properly and used correctly otherwise you will be back at square one and nothing will help you. We want you to succeed so please do your homework.

FYI, Hillary, the Halti is a head collar similar to the Gentle Leader head collar.

If one is going to use a head collar I would recommend the Canny collar over the Halti or Gentle Leader.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the point of all these training aides is just that, to help you with training. These items are not meant to replace the necessary loose leash training that you MUST do. These items will help you achieve your goal but please do not use them as a crutch for the rest of the dogs' life.

I had a steam train of a puller and I trained him to walk on a loose lead in a normal harness, yes a normal harness. Granted it took MONTHS to achieve that feat it is possible without the need for training aides. Now I do have a Halti head collar, I've had it for 4 yrs and I've used it twice. I honestly don't even think I will ever use it again either.

Yup, we all definitely have to find what works for us. The girl who runs the other team of dogs for our breeder uses an e-collar when necessary. For me, that's a "no way, no how"... but for her, it works ... Val and Lisa are right -- do your research, try what you are open to trying, push your comfort level a little with things that you aren't sure of, and see what works for you. It's good to know as many experiences with as many products and methods as possible. One of them WILL work, you just have to find it

...Hillary mentioned the Martingale collar...

There are some folks on this forum, I believe, who have had good success with a Martingale. James and Kaylie, you may want to research that one as well. Perhaps someone can give some thoughts on it here. I have not tried it...

I liked it a lot for Boris after I got him off the easy harness, but I noticed he always held back just a little in front of the sled and attributed it to having broken him from pulling and using a martingale collar to walk him. He was awesome with it and that's the collar I used when he got to loose leash phase. But I got into mushing with him AFTER we mastered the walk, so that's why I have a different approach with Dani and Volya. If the dog isn't going to be pulling (skijoring, urban mushing, biking, sledding, etc), then ultimately I think the martingale is awesome. If they'll be working at all, eh ... I still like separating the outfit and what part of the body it touches from the activity. Dani and Volya have martingale collars on 24/7 as part of my attn getters when they (namely Volya) are too focused on whatever mischief has been found to listen to hand-clapping or name-calling ... ie, a quick tug and I suddenly I get, "huh? Did you say something? What do you want?" and mischief over...

I like Martingale's as well, my sibe wears a Martingale just in case I ever need to attach a lead to his collar for any reason but otherwise I never walk him on it. But I like the semi-slip collars over choke collars while still preventing them from backing out/slipping it. But any dog that pulls so hard that it collapses it's windpipe will choke itself whether in a normal collar, check chain, or martingale.

thanks everyone i do take him on the bike with me from time to time so will have a look at the opitions before comitting to anything for definate

what are you using for the bike? has an x-back harness helped at all for biking?

im using just a normal manmat harrness thats for pulling he seem to do ok with it im happy with the amount of effort he puts in i found to get him really pulling u need sumone infront of u by about ten meters to egg them on also lots of water stops and little breaks

I just got the easy walk harness for Willow cause she is a nightmare on walks. It made a noticeable difference in her pulling. I really like it and it's cheap.

Mindy -- those things are great! Let me know if you need another one or when that one wears out and I'll send you one of mine. I have 3 extras in medium and large.

26nikita wrote:

I just got the easy walk harness for Willow cause she is a nightmare on walks. It made a noticeable difference in her pulling. I really like it and it's cheap.

I should get one of these for Kody! I have the choker collar for him and he walks fine with it when I'm walking him, but when hubby walks him he starts choking because he's pulling so much (not sure why he pulls more with him). I can't put a regular harness or collar on him because then he'll really drag him down the street. He needs more control than me when walking him because of previous surgeries on his leg he doesn't have the stability that I do.

Do you feel that this harness is safe? Is it sturdy? One of my biggest fears is a harness or collar breaking and loosing one of them =(

Melissa, if u want one of my extras, I'll send it to u. Just let me know how much he weighs so O send the right one. I need to cut down on some of the extra gear. Their drawer is getting unmanageable lol

hillarycole wrote:

Melissa, if u want one of my extras, I'll send it to u. Just let me know how much he weighs so O send the right one. I need to cut down on some of the extra gear. Their drawer is getting unmanageable lol

Sure!!! He weighs 45lbs so I'm guessing a Medium? Just let me know how much you'll get charged for shipping and I'll send ya a check.

You're awesome Hilary! Thanks!

Great! My extra medium is red, if that's okay (some people like all their gear to match -- I know a guy who runs his entire team solely in purple harnesses and will even have them custom made if he can't find the right size in the right shade of purple for one of his dogs lol)

Just private message me your number and I'll get it out to you tomorrow in one of those $4.95 flat rate boxes from the post office.

Nope, red is fine! I'm not picky =) Thanks Hilary! Sending you a PM right now!

Melissa, I think you will love it! I was pleasantly surprised with how much it helps. After a week of using it, I tried to walk her without it and I didn't get a block before I turned right back around and put the harness back on her...it makes that much of a difference. I do keep a regular leash on her collar as a back up because I am a bit paranoid she will break the harness. I have had too many break on me so I over do it now.

Hillary, since you have so many, I will not turn the offer down! I would love an extra one. I will pay for the shipping as well. Thank you!

This was very informative. I've been working with Demon on just a martingale, he pulls pretty bad for the first few minutes then settles down for a few minutes then pulls for a few over and over our whole walk. He is getting better. What I do is every time his front legs start to pass me, I turn around and walk in the opposite direction. I do this over and over again, he's catching on but tends to forget. I'm going to work with him this way until fall and if he doesn't stop pulling then I'll have to come up with another solution. I've always wondered about the gentle leader, if it really works or not. I'll have to look into that if it comes down to having to use one.