So, last weekend we took Amber to her second puppy training class. This was her second interaction with the puppies in the class. Her first experience was so so, she was very shy. She spent most of the time under the legs of me and my wife. Toward the end she came out a little bit. Well, this second time she was a completely different puppy. Out of her shell completely, it was great to see! She got along so well with the other puppies and had a great training and play time.

The following day we take her to my father in laws house for the holiday BBQ. This was going to be new for her because there was about 30 people there which is way more than she has ever been around at one time and in addition to that there was going to be 4 other dogs there. Our good friends were bringing their dog which is going to be a dog she will see alot so we are hoping for a good meeting. We arrive first and 2 of the other dogs are there, one toy breed and a golden retriever I believe it was. She was again very shy in the beginning but comes out of her shell again and begins to interact. There was some play nipping going on but nothing to raise any concern. In no time they are running and playing with each other and it was great to see. So to this point the dogs have settled in with each other. They are all females to this point.

My friends dogs name is Spike, male boxer/American staffershire(sp?) terrier mix. Big dog, 70lbs. Complete alpha male and very aggressive look. Now we have had alot of interaction with him so as far as my wife and I are concerned we are no new face to Spike. Under the rough look he is truly a big mush, often laying on you while you watch tv and he is a big face licker. I have never seen him aggressive, we watched him for a week while our friends were away and he never showed aggression. However, I quickly demonstrated that I was the Alpha. He is by nature a guard dog.

He comes into the back yard and he is very dominate with the toy dog, being very aggressive to the point where that dog had to leave. The golden retriever smelled him, a little nipping, then wanted nothing to do with him. We have Amber off to the side, calm. We let Spike do his thing, smell everything and get used to his new surroundings and calm down. Once calm we decide to introduce them. I'm holding Amber on leash, my friend is holding Spike on leash and prong collar. They smell each other, and about 15 seconds into sniffing Spike begins barking then out of no where begins nipping at Amber. Now, he is a big dog so his nipping can be quite rough. The leashes got a bit tangled and I see him make a really aggressive move toward the back of her neck, actually grabbing her neck with his mouth. I instinctfully reach in grabbing Spike by the top of his snout and proceed to pull back HARD until he releases her. My friend pulled him away and I pull Amber away. We tried a few other times to get them to meet with each other and he always ended up getting rough with her.

My friend was very defensive of his dogs reaction, saying that he plays rough and will calm down once they work it out as dogs. I am not so sure. I saw aggression. I put myself in harms way reaching in without even thinking. This dog has 40lbs on her, a lock jaw and is really bred to guard. Amber is faster and probably way smarter. My friend feels that we should let them work it out as dogs and let the leashes go. I disagree. I think that Spike needs some socialization training. I think that Spike was being dominate and aggressive and is absolutely equipped to either by accident or intent harm or even kill if things escalate. The suprising thing is Amber never backed down, she nipped right back at him every time, but I could tell it was mostly defensive as she was taking submissive positions.

Sorry to be long winded, but whats everyones thoughts? Should we let them work it out? Could Amber play rough with Spike and not get hurt? Advice would be so appreciated.

I can't remember how old Amber is....?

Without seeing the interaction, I can't tell if it was rough play or aggression on Spikes part. But part of Husky rough play is to grab each other at the neck with their mouth. When I first experienced rough play, it can look and sound like aggression but it's not. Not sure if you're familiar with Husky rough play, and I mean no offense....I'm just not sure about Spike and if he was playing or showing aggressions.

I understand your concern about size difference - Storm has about 40 lbs on Ginger, but she is quick and dances around Storm.

I'll try to find a video of my 2 playing which sometimes looks like aggression - maybe that might and let us know if that was how Amber and Spike interacted or not....

A video would help, and I get rough play. My gut told me it was agression.

Spike is 1 year old and Amber just passed 6 months.

Often times with breeds (or mixes) such as spike we are quick to think (or worry about) aggression. There's nothing wrong with that... as I do the same. Personally I think it sounds way too rough for these dogs and it being their first time playing together. Ginger and Storm as well as my own dogs are comfortable with such rough play because they know the dogs and trust them. The fact that Amber was giving signs that she wasn't interested should have turned Spike off. Personally I think you're right in saying that the dog probably needs some better socialization as that's not a proper way to interact with other dogs, especially other dogs he's just meeting.

Amber submitted and Spike remained aggressive. I thought for the first meeting he was being way to aggressive. I could see if they have played together before, but this wasnt the case.

Anybody think I'm being too protective? Should we let them work it out? Would Amber be capable of defending herself against a dog like this if it doesn't go well?

I would not let them work it out. would hate for something bad to happen.
is there a way you could meet again at a dog park where many are playing and view how he acts with other dogs while not on a leash? and then you can judge if you feel safe letting Amber in with everyone?

Also Eddy has a good thread somewhere on here with a drawing on how to walk the dogs and have them meet while out side on the street, bringing them in slowly till they are together.

I wouldn't know without seeing a video. But if you don't feel comfortable with them together, I wouldn't push it. Just keep them separate.

I do hope they know the correct way to use a prong collar. They can make dogs dog aggressive. Dog sees another dog, gets excited, hits end of leash, gets strong correction from prong collar. So the dog eventually thinks, other dogs equal pain from the prong collar. Might be why he reacted the way he did when meeting Amber.

SaraB wrote:

I do hope they know the correct way to use a prong collar. They can make dogs dog aggressive. Dog sees another dog, gets excited, hits end of leash, gets strong correction from prong collar. So the dog eventually thinks, other dogs equal pain from the prong collar. Might be why he reacted the way he did when meeting Amber.

Excellent point!

I've used prong collars and when seeing another dog that I know will cause jumping and playing, I immediately switch the leash off of the prong and onto a regular collar or harness. I guess the prong collar could have been causing Spike such discomfort that he was being aggresive to Amber.

I've always seen less aggression between male and female dogs than two dogs of the same sex. And there is also the mysterious "puppy license" that many people talk about. I think it is strange for Spike to act like that...

Maybe he is jealous of Amber's incredible CUTENESS!!

HuskyLuvver wrote:

Amber submitted and Spike remained aggressive. I thought for the first meeting he was being way to aggressive.

Anybody think I'm being too protective?

With the differences in size and the age, its better to be "too protective" then sorry.

We just finished up with Biko's obedience classes and in the process was attacked two weeks in a row by pit mix/guard breed. The 1st time I shagged the dog away and that was it. The 2nd week the damn dog came at Biko twice, the second time I ended it with 2 swift kicks to aggressive dogs ribs before the owner decided to pull him away. He either was embarrassed or pissed and left the building.

Protecting your Husky is more important then worrying about hurting someones feelings when their dog wants to be over agressive.

I've just been following this thread silently but just thought I'd chime in real quick on my thoughts. Based on everything you've said I would lean more toward thinking that Spike is being unnecessarily aggressive. Of course it's hard for us to make a really good judgment without being there but I agree with the others in erring on the side of caution. I would keep the dogs apart for safety sake. Better safe than sorry and I would be very protective of my dogs too in that situation.

This is an interesting topic. I take Miko to the local dog park where I watch her interact with all different types of dogs. We don't have a set schedule so it is rare that we see the same dog twice. I have witnessed what I would consider rough play, I have seen Miko be the bullied and the bullier(she has a big complex when it comes to small dogs). But only once did we experience aggression. It was a Pit Bull (But don't blame the breed blame the handler, I have know many pitbull that were the sweetest things in the world), this was most definately aggression for there was no barking or prancing. But there was growling. And Miko desperately trying to get away. She did get bit that time, right in the face. Fortunately she is hairy enough that the pit just got a mouthful of fuzz, and the handler got an earful from me.

I would have to ask, did either dog bare teeth, growl or have a tuft of hair standing up on their back? Were both pulling toward each other or was one trying to get away? Were they trying to nip or were they snapping teeth at each other? These things often (not always) determine the difference between aggression and rough play. You are very right to exercise caution. And should always do so even around dogs that have never showed aggression. I have witnessed the most passive dogs become aggresive for different reasons (pits, cocker spaniels, even huskies(don't boo me on that one)). Dogs just like people can have "irritants" that can "piss" them off.

Spike showed teeth and growled then went for the neck.

Her hair went up, after he went at her. His hair is too short, I didnt notice.

Spike was going at her, she was trying like hell to get away, thats when I stepped in and ripped Spike off by the snout.

Spike was more nipping I would call it rather than snapping his teeth at her. She nipped only after a few attempts by him.

Ginger's hair will go up all the way down to her tail, growl, and bare teeth and go for Storm's neck (behind his ears or under his jaw) and legs when she's playing with Storm.

I'm not saying it wasn't aggression, but I'd be careful and play safe for Amber's sake.

I haven't really read enough here to be convinced one way or the other. Honestly, I could see the situation going both ways. There is usually nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution though.

However, I will say that Koda is not "aggressive" but he does put his hackles up and gets very defensive around new dogs if they don't play like him and don't back down.

Either way, I'm sure Spike DOES need a lot of socialization, but I honestly have not read enough to be able to say whether Spike is or isn't being aggressive. Aggression is something you really have to see and not read about, because your perspective could be tainting the "image" of them playing in one way or the other. A video would help, but I can understand not wanting to be away from them enough to be able to video them.

I will also add, that our neighbors (we just moved) have commented on how they are afraid of Koda and Hailey because of the way they play. They said they look like they are aggressive dogs because they literally growl, bear their teeth, grab each other's necks and wrestle each other to the ground... but again... it's hard to tell by your description alone. I'm just throwing out there that in my world, I haven't "seen" enough to be convinced either way