Hi all, many apologies for the length. If you read this and have any advice, I am grateful and all ears.

• Adopted my husky mix at ~ 8 months in October 2021 from a rescue (no medical history provided)
• She’s had soft stool almost the entire time, and there will be weeks where it is really diarrhea mode
• She’s been seeing the vet since late Oct/early Nov to address this chronic diarrhea
• I have monitored with pictures throughout the day her stool during ‘good’ periods and the shape is still inconsistent between soft logs and mounds, as well as the color (her vet says not to worry about color as long as it’s not black or bleeding)
• Treated for Giardia twice (only tested positive for antigens, no worms seen)
• Tried chicken and rice for two weeks – made the stool worse (potentially a chicken allergy)
• Tried Hills Science diet – didn’t help
• Tried a food trial suggested by vet: a hydrolyzed protein diet that should render the protein so small the body can’t recognize it and have an allergic reaction – it turned her stool to complete liquid and after a week I made the decision to pull her off
----My pup also became extremely aggressive during this time due to her stomach discomfort. It’s very obvious when she’s in discomfort. It was the worst 2-3 weeks I’ve had with her because I couldn’t sit in the same room with her without her coming at me and I got bruises from some of the bites. She didn’t go after anyone else, thankfully. She was given trazedone for a week to calm her and that helped, and though she was a bit aggressive after coming off it, she’s no longer this way and I’m so grateful I don’t need to consider sedatives (I didn’t want this at all)
• She’s had psyllium powder for at least 1.5 months – vet’s recommendation and she’s confused why it doesn’t work.
• The vet prescribed metronidazole again for two weeks and after a week her stool sort of recovered, but as said above, a day’s logging of the stool show’s inconsistency
• She has had full bloodwork, including a Texas panel, and nothing is abnormal.
• She’s off all meds now. When she came off the metronidazole, I could tell her stool began to transform back to shapeless.
• She now has really bad diarrhea again. Last night she ran to her pee pads 2-3x.
• The vet doesn’t know what else to do besides see an internist for an ultrasound. I’m so tired and frustrated because I’ve spent ~ $1k now with this vet trying to figure this out (and I’m NOT wealthy, but I want my dog to be okay!) and I know this visit will basically double this and her new insurance is trying to refuse to cover it.
• I gave pumpkin in the early days and that sort of helped. I started giving it to her again and it seemed to help earlier this week but now nothing is working.
• She has some greenish eye discharge that has shown up before and popped up again this week. It happens more so when she’s walking outside in the cold. The vet doesn’t seem to address this.
• She has a new antibiotic that’s supposed to be safer than metronidazole for long term use and she’s begun that today.
• She eats 2 meals a day of Taste of the Wild salmon and ancient grains (1.5 cups per meal) – my girl is about 35 lbs.
• She walks 7-10 miles a day. She goes to the dog park almost every day. Her vet suggested that sometimes diarrhea is stressed induced…

I’m at a loss. I’m not sure I can afford the internal medicine consultation /ultrasound right now (apparently it takes a couple of months to even get it) and if I'm told there's no issue, then what next? I’ve tried everything I can to at least lessen her discomfort while I figure this out (I think the pumpkin has helped a little). The vet is basically shrugging (this is supposed to be a good clinic in my city…) and I feel there is no guidance when I’m told to try something new and I don’t know what to expect as a reaction, or what’s normal behavior. So I’m now searching for any husky experts such as yourselves. I’ve had a husky in the past but that one came to us at 3 years old and didn’t have any stool issues until very old age.

Thank you again for reading. My polar pup thanks you, too.

As I was reading this my thoughts were "What are you feeding her and how much?"  then almost at the end you say ... so with that in mind my go-to source for dog food quality says that Taste of the Wild is a good cut above average so we're fine there.
However the quantity you're feeding her is enough to make my 50+ pound dogs have a case of the runs.  Each of mine gets 2 cups in the evening (this is their choice, if I put out a 1/2 cup in the AM it just sets) and I think you'll find that most of us feed about the same two cups though we may split it up depending our schedules and dogs desires.

My first suggestion is to locate a vet who knows about Huskies.  Yeh, they're dogs but in a whole lot of ways they're really different from the average hound and the run of the mill, neighborhood vet rarely knows about them, really.  If that's a problem ( I have two vets within 100 miles of me and neither of them really knows Huskies though one is learning ) see if you can locate a Husky Huddle (that's a group of people who own Huskies and have get togethers, Huskies play rough and most other dogs aren't sure that a Husky isn't being aggressive when all it wants to do is play!  Husky style.)

My second suggestion is to gradually cut back the amount you're feeding her.  She'd probably complain if she went from 3 cups to 2 cups overnight but if you cut it back 1/4 cup at a time over a week or so she not gripe too badly and I think you'd see improvement.

Just got off the phone with a friend who has a GSD (and from the avatar yours looks like a Husky / GSD mix ) and even to him 3 cups was probably too much.

Thanks for your comment. I was following the feeding chart, and I didn't realize going at the upper limit would do that. This is typical?
The vet said she was on the thin side when I rescued her, that's why I went with the higher suggestion at her weight class, and at her young age and exercise I figured this was not an issue.
I wish she was more of a grazer, she will gobble anything she can!

Also I use kibble for her training since she can't have treats (while I'm trying to figure out what's going on). So maybe I'll cut down her main food portions? I bought some pumpkin treats for dogs in the meantime.
I'm considering switching her to a raw diet...

"Is this typical?"  Yep, for new Husky owners it's all too typical.  When I got her, I fed my first Husky the same amount of food I was feeding my Lab - found out in short order that that didn't work, for the same reason.

Most feeding charts are worthless, especially for Huskies.  The manufacturer is trying to sell dog food so they go at the practical upper limit that most dogs will / should / could eat and Huskies are typically off the bottom of their chart.

I stole this from The nest
Overfeeding
Siberian huskies were bred to be working dogs in harsh conditions where food was hard to come by. Huskies' bodies are more efficient at burning calories and using nutrients, and therefore they are used to eating less than other breeds of dogs. Huskies will only eat until they are full, unlike other breeds, such as Labrador retrievers, who will eat until they fall ill. Feed your adult husky about 60 percent of what the label on his food suggests for his weight.

I definitely disagree with the part that says "Huskies will only eat until they are full."  That seems to depend entirely on the dog and its history.  I had one who would eat her food and then anything else she could get to!  Ended up having to feed her completely separately from the others.

Since you have a mix there ( did the shelter give you any idea what the mix might be? ) You'll have to consider the tendencies of that breed as well.  It might be valuable to do a doggy DNA so you really know what the mix is

While too many people take the attitude that "it's just a dog" Huskies are more intelligent than many other breeds.  Think about it, you have a lead dog who's way out in front of the guy on the sleigh who's telling them to go across this lake.  The lead dog knows that the ice is thinner and if they do they're gonna get wet and probably die ... dog says "No!" and goes around the lake.  (( Happened to a musher by the name of Seppala, I believe.  ))  This intelligence too often comes out as stubbornness - "What's in it for me?" and I've known dogs who were literally training their owners - not a good mix!!  You'll find the attitude when it comes to training.

A caveat - most owners and many vets are of the opinion that a fat dog is a healthy dog.  Absolutely NOT SO when the AKC, for example, says that a female Husky should weigh between 35-50 the 50 pounds is apt to be for a bigger dog.  My example is that you should be able to feel her ribs - just like you can feel the ribs you buy at the supermarket through the cellophane.  They shouldn't be really pronounced but they should be there.
Most people (and vets) see a Husky who's at her good weight and think they're underweight.  A Husky should be svelte not so skinny you can see hip and rib bones but you should easily be able to feel them.

My prior husky (who we got at 3 years old, so i don't have prior experience with pups) definitely ate only when she felt like it, and in her old age it was so very difficult to get her to eat anything. This kiddo definitely will eat everything and I have to keep vigilance on her walks because somehow she finds every bone possible.

I definitely agree with the intelligence and stubbornness remarks, it's why I chose to get another husky, and it's what I love about my pup. She doesn't like the repetitive sit commands during training and when I ask her to "touch" she boops my hand with her nose passive aggressively sometimes ... I find it very funny and also appreciate her brain. I plan on doing the DNA test but I had also thought Sky might have some shepherd mixed in. I didn't get any history at all from her from the shelter, medical or breed wise. Just that she was a mix.

Someone at the dog park yesterday said she looked too skinny and I didn't really agree. You can't see her ribs (she's also furry...) but I can feel them with slight pressure. She has an up tuck in her stomach and you can see her waist/pelvis from above but it doesn't seem unhealthy. I had already assessed this from questions prompted by her Whistle tracker

Really appreciate your responses!

Oh, that's no fair!! You didn't tell us you'd had a Husky before. My comments would have been a lot less pedantic if you had << laughing>>

Regrettably this forum (like a lot of forums) has become very quiet. We have a few regulars and I'm surprised that none of them have chimed in. One though will be off with her dogs for the holiday weekend so she'll probably comment Monday.

I like your description of her shape, she sounds like a good healthy dog - ignoring the excess "stuff".

Puppies are definitely a challenge. All I've done for years is rescue so my knowledge of puppies comes from what I've read here and on other sites.

And, if you'll excuse me, I'll now go sorta quite and let others have a chance.

Don't worry, I understand it comes from a good place. I'm new to rescuing and new to husky puppies, along with trying to be on top of training this early on. I appreciate your speedy responses and am open to any and all. Thank you!

I will be curious how dialing back on food goes. Al's suggestion is where I would start and just monitor. Her guts have been through a lot though so I wouldn't expect over night results. My senior adult gets around 2 cups a day of kibble similar to TOTW and he's a very large structured husky. Being a pup still I would think around 2.5 cups a day would be enough for continued growth without the out of balanced gut issues. If weight drops with the drop in food then slowly go back up in feeding amount but feed smaller meals more often. May have to go up to 3 a day feedings rather than 2 so there isn't so much food in the system at one time. A good pro/pre biotic might be a good route too in order to help heal what the guts have been through with the various medications depending on how long it's been. If you are suspecting a chicken allergy may have misfired the rice and chicken diet opt to not cook the chicken. Dogs are sometimes allergic/intolerant to cooked chicken but not to raw.

Thanks for chiming in Jenn. Sometimes I feel really alone in here.

"Dogs are sometimes allergic/intolerant to cooked chicken but not to raw." Now that's an interesting comment and one I didn't know. Do you have any idea what the change is in the chicken such that one would be acceptable and the other not?

Cooking changes the protein structure of the meat. Dogs become allergic to the cooked structure for whatever reason because they are overexposed to it likely, but they don't become allergic to the raw structure. My male will chew himself into a bloody hairless mass on cooked chicken, but not with raw.

Neo-Allergen Formation

"The Influence of the Maillard Reaction on Immunogenicity and Allergenicity of Food Proteins" the title to an article for some light reading, eh??
Thanks, I think....

Thank you for the advice. I did start dialing back per meal, a tiny bit, her kibble. Because of the diarrhea and her apparent food sensitivities I had been using her kibble for training.
Today I received her Salmon and Rice purina pro plan for sensitive stomachs which I'll begin to transition in slowly. Once she stabilizes I'll begin a transition to a raw diet.
Her stool has been much better the past few days. I'm not sure if it's the Tylan powder antibiotic or not which she began late last week. She's been on pumpkin for a week, proviable the whole time, and I started introducing yogurt a couple of days ago. I am supposed to see keep her on the Tylan for a month to see how it works. I'm torn because I don't want to go against the doctor's advice (and she seems to be slightly improving) but I don't want AB long term. I feel bad for her poor little stomach

Thanks again for all of your help! She had her first snow day ever and after being a bit tentative, she's in love with the snow and was crying to get back outside.

Lol. The title is horrible for that article but the general down and dirty message I think is mostly understandable in that processing changes food's makeup (an nutritional value).

If you decide to go raw make sure to do a lot of research. There is a lot of work in doing raw properly so you don't mess up their nutrition and vitamin intake. I did PMR style for years and it was a bear to put together with a lot of math and weighing everything to the gram.

The Raw Feeding Community

The Raw Feeding Community also has a facebook group that has a great files section with meal calculators and guides on how and why you feed certain things in certain quantities. There is also a FB group called Homecooked Diets for Dogs that has a tremendous files section. RFC is great if you are feeding PMR (Primitive, no veg) style but if you are opting for BARF (adding veg) then the guides in the Homecooked Diet group I feel are better at explaining the veg calculations when putting together meals. Two dogs I fed PMR but one dog did better with a little more fiber in his diet and I fed him BARF based on the guide in Homecooked FB group (I just didn't cook the meat as they do) and it worked well for him. My female I have moved over to freeze dried raw to save myself some time.

Just one off the wall comment.  I think I'd have a discussion with the vet about what you could cut out of her diet / medication.  As I read it you're dealing with a whole lot of variables there and limiting those will help you determine what's having positive or negative effects.

In my mind pumpkin and yogurt aren't a problem - least I've never had a problem with them; Tylan an intestinal antibiotic about which I know nothing; Proviable - a pre/probiotic again I plead ignorance ...

I'm in agreement that long-term use of an antibiotic is questionable practice - one can never be sure what symptoms the antibiotic might be covering.

I think, if it were me, I'd drop the options that I've (you've) added - the pumpkin and yogurt, while they should have little effect in combination with an intestinal antibiotic and the vet provided Proviable you can't really be sure.  

After that and cutting down on what you're feeding, I'd consider talking to the vet about dropping the Tylan.  With this base - ie dog food and the Proviable - you can consider what to add or drop over time and have some idea of what additive is having what effect.  I know we all want to be the cause of as little discomfort as possible to our pets but, again, in my opinion, you really need to get a solid handle on what is having what effect.  I'm getting repetitive .. I'll quit for now.

Do you have cats with a litter box that she gets into? That is our latest notion with our boys diarrhea.

Hi all! I didn't see the alerts for the last two messages, my apologies.

No cats here

Sky has gotten markedly better over the last week and a half. She's been on the Tylan powder since Dec 30. Regular solid stools. She's even gained two pounds (I had to take her in for the lepto vaccine and the vet tech updated me that she's gained weight - 37 lbs now!). I keep her at 2 cups of food a day (now on Purina Pro Plan - salmon and rice for sensitive stomach) with maybe up to 1/2 cup of her leftover Taste of the Wild salmon kibble dispersed throughout the day for training, but it's rarely that whole amount (I also monitor her calorie intake/burn with her GPS tracker to make sure it's not excessive). I've kept the pumpkin and yogurt and added some kelp, and removed the psyllium powder that the vet swears by...

The vet was really pleased with her progress and says I should keep her on the Tylan powder and not change her diet as it seems to be working and Tylan is supposed to be safe for long term use. I'm still not really keen on the idea of keeping her on the Tylan so the vet said let's keep going for a few more months and then start pulling her off to see if she can handle it.
I don't know -- can some dogs just not recover a healthy gut? This is what the vet is seeming to imply, and probably I will need a second opinion on that. The nice thing is at this point we don't need to see an internist - the vet says she feels confident we can wait now as Sky seems to be doing well.

In other news, my pup has been sleeping a ton more this past week and shedding way more. I was worried at first (and maybe still am a little on edge) but she has good spirits outside the house in her walks and playtime at the park, but I have noticed she's overall calmer. The weather is changing a lot (extremely cold last weekend, today it's returned to being extremely cold and tomorrow will snow).
I guess I'm still figuring out what *my* healthy pup's nature is, as we've just reached 3 months together

I'm going to offer a suggestion as to why she's sleeping more ... simply she's more comfortable so she can do what dogs do when they aren't irritating their owners ... sleep.  I have two rugs behind me as I type this, what can I say?

I went looking for some information on Tylosin ( your Tylan Powder ) and found this article which I found informative.  The two noticeable things I noted are a normal relapse at cessation of treatment - the the tune of 88% of the dogs in the trial, ouch!!  And more interesting is that amount ( above 5mg/kg ) didn't seem to matter overall.  You might want to consider how much powder you're giving her and cut it back - given the apparent cost of Tylosin powder, it's something I'd consider.

I'm really glad that you're seeing some positive outcome there, it's rough on the dog to not feel well and it's also rough on the owner.

No cats???   How do you expect a Husky to have a good playtime without a cat.  ( I've commented elsewhere that my two are cat friendly and watching the three of them at play is like watching the clowns in a circus! )

Thanks for the article! I actually only read the first one by this author and hadn't seen this second one yet. Just did the calculation on Sky's daily dosage -- approx 20 mg/day. What seems to be the consensus is that this powder is for when they have no other cause/solution for the ongoing diarrhea and the dogs will probably relapse and treatment seems okay so far for long-term. I agree with you - I'd like to try in a month to reduce it because this study suggested 5 mg as a lower baseline. This author also wrote that treatment for 7 days vs treatment for 6 weeks had basically a similar relapse rate (i.e. treating for 6 weeks didn't cause the relapse to hold out longer). So I guess that's why vets opt to indefinitely treat if the dogs keep relapsing? I just spied on the author's thesis and it also seems there might be a particular bacterial strain that would be helpful. I mean, that must be it - there must be a certain bacteria not yet identified for which they haven't developed a counter. 

Thanks for your kind words -- I'm just so relieved she's not struggling and it's made our relationship easier. It was truly terrible for a few weeks. Like you say, she could just big on sleeping and now that her system is normalizing, this is just who she is! I need to be less paranoid but most of my observations have been accurate as to when something has been up so I'm trying to now just settle back and re-evaluate less on a daily basis.

Haha! I was worried how she would do with cats as she's a huntress when it comes to squirrels and rats (quite literally), but she went into a bodega a short while ago and saw a cat and became obsessed. She wanted to play so badly, and now every time we walk by she asks to go in to look for the cat. I'm a bit allergic so maybe in the future I can find a hypoallergenic one to be her buddy...

Just something i thought about as my rug sleeps next to me on the couch. We dealt with chronic diarrhea off and on for several years. In spiders case it wasnt a mystery though. Spider had parvo as a pup. With yours being a rescue i wonder if they could test for a past parvo infection. Glad you got it under control whatever it is.

That's an interesting point. I'll ask if that's feasible. Thanks!

Just figured I would update, though not necessarily a positive one.

I finally took Sky to an internal medicine specialist in late February. At first I was pretty happy after the meeting because I felt heard and validated by my worries about her stomach pain and the long term use of antibiotics (Tylan). The IMED vet agreed that isn't the goal and she said that Sky was severely underweight and likened her to an old person, which was really hard to hear. I had been following a diet regime of calories in and out and others had said I was overfeeding her. Additionally, the original food trial she was on, I happened to choose the hydrolyzed protein food brand (an option her previous vet obviously offered to me) that some dogs happen to get even worse on, which is what Sky had experienced. So you can imagine how distraught I felt after that appointment... but again the vet said she would work with me, makes sense.

Sky is now at a healthier weight. However, I can tell she still doesn't feel better and she often has not great days. For almost two months I cut everything out, even flavored toys, and gave only stuff on the approved list. I also took her to the primary care doctor at the same hospital to get her paw checked out (long story short - she has an angular limb deformity and needs surgery) and the primary care vet said she doesn't see Sky having stomach pain because she didn't react when her stomach was pressed. She said her issues, which included random whimpering, were probably anxiety related.

I kept communicating with the IMED vet and she said that because Sky has gained weight and her stool isn't runny, that her issues are probably anxiety based and should go see a behaviorist - and also that she has to be on a hypoallergenic diet forever. Forgive me, I'm about to rant... here's why:
-We did a food trial to see how she would react to different foods, not to keep her to one specific bag of dog food for life
-If her issues are anxiety-based, then why is she on a special diet?
-Sky's stool was stable before getting on the food trial - I wanted to remove the Tylan powder.

When I responded saying it was extremely difficult to keep to this very strict trial and we haven't learned anything from it, and that the goal was actually to figure out what's wrong and get her off Tylan, the IMED vet just repeated Sky will need to stay on a hypoallergenic diet. Additionally, I can start removing Tylan powder and instead give her psyllium powder to counter balance.

This upset me because psyllium powder and antibiotics are two entirely different things. They shouldn't have the same effects. I also have tried psyllium for two months previously and she didn't do well, and she wasn't doing well with it again.

I feel stuck again and that my dog will just keep having down days. I don't want to tell the IMED vet I don't trust them anymore but I thought I had an advocate and now they're on the anxiety bandwagon train, have had me put Sky on trazodone and gabapentin, and even when I craft careful responses I feel like I'm not being taken seriously.

Apologies. I guess I needed to vent. Also maybe this will help someone else. I did run into an ex-vet whose family owns huskies and she was trying to comfort me that Sky isn't even two and probably still adjusting tummy wise as a young dog and also to DC (which sucks for clean environment quality). I just wish the IMED vet and other vets said something similar.

Our next trial is to make it through Sky's surgery and post-surgery period. I will need to figure out how to manage her need to play and socialize over 2-3 months while her paw heals I might make another post about that for advice.

Just wonder if you ever got an answer about a potential for a past infection that left permanent damage like parvo or distemper.

And if the worry is allergies i would look at a limited single protein source food. Most dog food has mixed torophols ( spelling) that makes allergies go nuts if it is an allergy to something like poultry, beef or pork.

And what is the overall point of the tylan if there isnt a bacterial or fungal or parasitic issue? That could throw off good bacteria in the gi tract.

My gsd is allergic to life and we did have to do a very very minimal ingredient diet and then slowly add things in to figure out what he could and couldn't eat. It seems like something with 50 ingredients makes it hard to narrow down the problem.

They never brought that up as a possibility.

See, I was hoping the vet was going to follow through on the food trial, as was stated in our initial consult, as a way to test which single source or few proteins she would be able to have and yet a couple of weeks ago just plainly said via email Sky would probably have to be on this diet for life. Yet we never did any tests on what she could eat nor figured out what the real issue was.

I'm fully committed to figuring out what she can eat. I know it's probably not chicken or beef as she seemed to react poorly to that very early on. I might check out our local specialty pet store.

Glad you were able to figure out some stuff for your GSD. Thanks for the comment.

Any kind of blood or saliva food allergy test has a high rate of falsities. Not many good vets will bother with them. The best way to do food testing is through an elimination diet. Use very basic foods like rice, broccoli, and a single protein. It can take a couple weeks for a protein to clear from the system so when you switch you have to make sure you test the new source long enough that the prior one is out of the system unless there's a major reaction after switching. Using a limited ingredient kibble will work the same way, give time for the old to leave the system before making a decision on it.