Dogs like Kye are why pet insurance is a good thing. Wish I had some of the stuff.

So Kye's test results are back and according to them he is allergic to pretty much everything it feels like.



Of course the next step offered by the vet is immunotherapy. He will be given a serum 3 times over the course of the next few months and then after that he will require "maintenance". The maintenance involves coming in every month for a shot, or I can do a spray in his mouth at home twice a day forever basically. Neither seem pleasant or affordable. While these kinds of tests do come back with false positives some of the time he might not be as bad as it shows, but without redoing the test several times to the tune of $250 a pop I am not going to go to the expense to find out which might be wrong. Has anyone had any experience with Immunotherapy, dog or otherwise, and do you know the likelihood of getting off of it eventually? I saw where some said after a few years maybe his system would get it together and take over.

Also, he doesn't itch, which is throwing me because everything says they should itch. He simply can't breathe, more like Asthma. Wondering if maybe starting with an asthma treatment rather than diving straight into immunotherapy is worth a try? Anyone know any effective holistic asthma supplements? Was looking at Amazapet, but seems a pain to get a hold of.

Hepa filter comes in today, so I'm also going to see if that helps with things. I guess I'm just a little at a loss on how to approach the next phase. I have the test results and they look awful, but still not convinced full blown immunotherapy is the way to go.

Jenn, let me preface this with "I really don't know what I'm talking about."

The range that they use for positive seems to be a bit weighted - however, looking at your results, several seem to be on the low end of the scale (Kapok, Mosquito, Altemaria<??>)

Looking at those that fall into a higher range we find several grasses and weeds (I presume pollen<??>). Symptomatically, in my mind, it seems as if he's responding normally to the allergens in the grasses. I think if it were me, since anti-hystamines behave similarly in dogs as they do in humans, I'd have a talk with the vet about a timed trial of two weeks to a month on a low level dose, and see how he reacts. Again, given the results you're seeing on the "chart" and the effects on Kye, after a discussion with my vet, I'd go for an anti-histamine regamine of - let's say, depending on his weight - a round of pills in the morning and another at mid-afternoon (8 - 10 hours apart) and none overnight.

That does prompt the question: Are his "asthma type symptoms" seasonal or consistent through the year?"

I've only had him since february so not sure what they are like through the winter. He was itchy and had sores on him and was reverse sneezing when I got him. Getting off chicken seemed to fix the itchiness. I would think they would be lower since most of the things on the list are seasonal themselves. He has been on benedryl since shortly after I brought him home and it seems to make very little impact. He's been on two rounds of prednisone, and that works like a charm but he can't stay on that. One of my vets has made mention of a low dose pred but as young as he is even a low dose would likely cause problems over time. For the last week he has been on doxycycline and benedryl. He's had two very bad days since then. Saturday I believe was the first, huge amounts of sneezing, running and stuffed up nose, absolutely couldn't breathe. He gets 3 benedryl pills 3 times a day. Saturday and then again yesterday I gave him one prednisone pill because he couldn't breathe to the point he was going to possibly suffocate. The next day he is great (still coughs but is dry and can breathe) and needs no benedryl. It also seems that when he gets a pred he can go a couple days without any allergy meds before he needs another so if we did low dose pred I could probably keep it to every other day rather than every single day. Not sure if that would make a difference on health though. That stuff is nasty. He's not itchy, doesn't mess with his feet, shin is clear and not dry, so the pollen that lands on him doesn't seem to have any outside affect on him, but the stuff he breathes in seems to send him into a flurry.

My approach to the numbers has been the lower positives I am taking with a grain of salt and assuming they are probably false positives. Anything higher than 150 are probably legit. Some stuff I think I can also get under control myself like the cockroaches. We don't have a roach problem and we don't go places that have roach problems so that one I kinda throw out. Dust I am attempting to get under control as well on my own. Pecan trees aren't in our area either so that's another thing that isn't at the top of my list to worry about. The grass and the oaks are by far my top concerns.

'kay, you and I were thinking similar thoughts.

Now I'm intrigued. I'm familiar with Benadryl for several different things (to reduce swelling due to bites, to induce drowsiness for travel sickness and general antihistamine - and more ...) It's always been my "go to" medicine since, short of a major overdose, the worst it can do is cause your dog to go to sleep - for a long time, but not forever.

Three tablets indicates you have a pup that's 75+ pounds, heavy for a Sibe. (Normal dosage is 1gm/pound of weight and tablets are typically 25gm.) I am surprised that you're giving an evening dose since he should relax enough to make it through the night without any meds - if, that is, the allergens were all outside. You're also dealing with a condition more extreme than any I'm familiar with ....

Assuming that he's in the house with you, like most of our dogs are (I think) and it continues overnight, I'd be looking real strongly at carpets/rugs, waxes, cleansers, etc. rather than looking for external allergens. (( I know, you probably have but I had to mention. ))

By the by, I'm curious not knowledgeable - some things seem "natural" to me (like the benadryl usage) and other things not so.

Kye is pushing 70 pounds (all the more reason I was surprised he came back pure). He came in at 67 when at the vet the other day (He was 54ish when I got him in february). Because he has such adverse reactions is why the vet said give him three. We have also done stints on Zyrtec, he was getting 2.5 pills a day (didn't work), and Clariten, He was getting 2 a day (still didn't work). He is actually worse at night, which is why we are still researching a possible heartworm issue on top of the allergies but he's still testing negative. Other than the wool area rug in the living room there are no carpets in the house. My hepa filter was supposed to show up today but hadn't done so when I went home for lunch. (my himalayan salt lamps did show up though) I am really hoping that helps. It's not the most well sealed house ever so outside things like pollen getting in is no surprise to me. Especially with the crazy wind we've had the last couple days which I think is why we had such a terrible flair up last night.

Hah... His report looks remarkably like my own! I have, variably, brittle asthma, severe persistent asthma, persistent asthma. I'm on my third round of allergy shots. First round was 3 years and gave me a good 5 years. Second round got great results almost immediately so CV bc me stopped prematurely. Four years later, another round. First two v times were different allergens. Lattes set a duplicate of the first as my skin tests were unreliable is, did not respond to histamine control. So b they repeated the mix from last time as I didn't complete b that series.

The shots work week for me. I still need inhaled steroids in high doses but at least it works. Without the shots, still symptomatic and oral steroids multiple times per year. But, I rarely need Allegra these days, no eye drops.

Each successive round of shots takes less time to become effective.

Jenn - I told Wayne about your problems with Kye and test results, that you were asking about allergy shots. He snorted and burst out - allergy shots are "life altering" He has his share of allergies, was miserable as a child, young adult, marginally better when he got to medical school and discovered nasal steroids - then, when I developed asthma and was sent to allergist, he went too. We both started shots and he became markedly better in 3-4 months (me was more like 6 months to a year. At first, the shots would give me worse symptoms for a day or two after, then back to status quo. Also - increasing the dose was difficult for me the first round - frequently had to back down due to reactions. But, persistence paid off.)

Funny story - whenever we were in a store, if we went separate ways, I could always find Wayne 'cause I could here his every 1-2 minute sniff/snort from post-nasal drip. After allergy shots were effective, I can no longer easily find him 'cause no more sniff/snort

Jenn- the allergy to alternaria mold and dust mites is probably the most significant for asthma. In humans, allergy to alternaria mold is the single most significant predictor of death from asthma. Dust mites are really hard to get rid of - the feed off the skin debris from normal skin turnover. An allergan resistant cover is helpful for any upholstered surface/bedding. (if he sleeps on a dog bed, an allergen resistent cover might help.

Asthma/allergy tends to be worse at night because then normal daily low of cortisol is at its lowest point about late night/very early hours and peaks about 8:30 in the morning, slowly decreasing through the day.

And - alternaria is a dry air, wind-dispersed mold so not surprising the windy day made him worse. Pre-thunderstorm activity will do the same. It is the fungus responsible for turning plant matter back into soil - corn fields, hay fields. Also, in the house, onions are a source.

Also - alternate day pred dosing is a know strategy for reducing long term side effects. However, even with the inhaled steroids, there are significant systemic effects, including bone loss. For me, the worst is my skin. I always have some sort of band-aid/bandage on my forearms. In final stages of healing at the moment from reaching into cabinet and brushing against the saran wrap box, pushing the ost bar into the ground and the hand banging my arm, the storm door shutting and scraping the striker against my arm, and the many catches of brambles from finding the lightning strike breaks in my fence line. Considering stopping the steroids for a bit to allow my skin to thicken but..."breathing trumps all..."

Kye is worse when he is laying down, so middle of the day when I'm at work and then at night. When he's moving, he is good and he really doesn't get run down when hiking. He's a very restless soul.

Is that a good "life altering" with the shots? Lol. I am allergic to dust mites as well. Had chronic bronchitis as a kid because of it. I mostly great out of it wit time and vinegar. We burned wood so avoiding dust wasn't going to happen. I have the covers on our bedding but not on the dog beds. Will have to see if I can find some to fit.

I'm hoping the amazapet shows up soon so I can get it started to see if it works. I started the hepa filter last night.

A most wonderful, eye-opening "life-altering" I had chronic bronchitis as a teen, young adult. Same thing year after year - get a cold, wouldn't go away, coughing, green goop coming up, antibiotics...then the yeast infections, diflucan. Couldn't do any kind of exertional sports. Skiing in winter always ended up stopping for multiple coughing fits. The only thing I regret is that I wasn't diagnosed much sooner and they didn't have the treatments they have today, anyway. Life is sooooo much better since allergy shots and inhaled steroids.

Going to give an update. We've been exploring many things but think we may have an answer thanks to a new aquantence with a dog with similar issues. After swabs, blood work, and chest xrays it is most likely that kye suffers from eosinophilic bronchopneumopathy (EBP). It's rare but seems to be most prevalent in northern breeds.

Some reading on the science of what it is.

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/diagnosing-and-managing-canine-eosinophilic-bronchopneumopathy

Kyes xray. You can see how cloudy his lungs are. He's back on prednisone as that seems to be the only thing EBP is responsive to.



Yes, kye has been shot. Surprised me too. This poor dog has had a rough life.

My friend who had the Great Dane discovered after X-rays were done one time, that her dog had bullets in her too. My dad had a Doberman, same thing. It's sad.

This cough, is it random or is it happening after doing things like exercising or drinking water, Jenn? . Mishka coughs and gags after drinking water.

There's something like that in humans,  eosinophilic broncho something or other.  Aspergiiosis maybe?  Don't remember but is something to look for in intractable, tx resistent asthma...Sorry to hear that.

By the way - when Wayne explains "idiopathic" to patients, he says it means "we're idiots and don't know what the cause is..."

Hmmm....Ami has a persistent problem with cough from what we presume is aspiration from eating and drinking. Mentioned it to the vet once but she wasn't impressed.

Jimmy, it's most of the time but worse after laying down due to all the fluid in and around his lungs. He is fine when hiking. All spider vein looking things in the xray shouldn't be there. And the darker spot at the left toward the front of his chest should be much darker. It's  clouded with fluid as well. The spider vein look is the EBP. It causes the walls of the ventrals to thicken then fill which makes them visible on xrays. Since kye has been on two rounds of prednisone already that may have kept it in check somewhat. Apparently a dog came in with it a while back at another office that was far worse. That dog couldn't breathe to the extent it had to be put on oxygen while they waited on tests and meds to kick in.

Wow. So what is the prognosis for Kye, Jenn? First I thought, "whew, atleast it's not heart worm" but in reading everything, it sounds like something that never gets better (?)

They don't know what causes it and no real cure since they only really respond to prednisone. Some dogs after being on pred for a while can be taken off for longer periods of time and maybe forever. This is why I am taking him to raw. My hope is that with the best nutrition that maybe someday his body will recuperate enough to control itself. I feel if he ever has a chance to be off prednisone that raw will give it to him and if not it will at least give him the best shot at holding up to the pred.