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| Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl | |
| Author | Message |
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GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:09 pm | |
| So I have a very weird situation that I am currently dealing with with my almost 3 month old puppy. He has food aggression when it comes to eating out of his bowl.
I have, and still do, hand feed him. He has a very strong "leave it" and "focus", I can put the food on the ground, tell him to leave it, focus on me and then give him the release. He will eat the food off the ground and I can pet him and move the food around and he doesn't make a sound, he just keeps eating.
Now, I put the food in the bowl he starts to get more possessive and will growl at me if I try touching him or putting my hand close to his food. I have gotten him to the point where I have to show him that I have more food in my hand, put my hand in the food bowl first, then give him the release to eat out of the bowl. I then praise him for not growling and will also pet him. If he does growl or bite me, then I remove it, let him calm down and start over again.
I find it so strange that only when his head is in the food bowl does he become mean. I am wondering if maybe he was picked on by his other litter mates and it was especially worse while they were eating. If I bring him around my dads puppy, they play fight like normal but the moment you bring the water out, if his head is in there first, then he gets defensive. If the other puppy has his head in there first, then he will try to muscle is way in, but no growling or biting. I obviously don't let him get away with that and have been working on that as well, usually letting the other dog drink first (his house) and showing my dog that there is still water left for him. Then always putting the water bowl away once they are done.
If any of you have other ideas for me to try to desensitize him from his food and water bowls, let me know. I'm running out of ideas here. I don't want this to escalate to where we go to the dog park in summer and he flips on other dogs if he is trying to drink from the water bowl and they come too close or snapping on a little child that wants to pet him while he is eating. |
| | | TwisterII Senior
Join date : 2013-06-14 Location : Missouri
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:02 pm | |
| He could feel vulnerable. How deep is his bowl? Does his whole head go down in it where he might not be able to see what's coming up to him well? How does he do with petting while he is eating? I don't have anything particularly useful for you to try. When I got my boy he was really food and water aggressive. He tried to bite me twice and I thumped him for it and it's never happened again. Not the recommended route. At 3 months I wouldn't expect him to be getting too into testing the boundaries but some start their teen phase early. You just have to keep after them and not sway on the rules. _________________ |
| | | Stihl1816 Newborn
Join date : 2016-11-03 Location : Upstate NY
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:10 pm | |
| A technique we learned in our puppy class was to add BETTER stuff to the bowl. Not sure if your pup has a sensitive tummy like mine does, but you can add cheese, hot dog pieces, small pieces of chicken... higher value stuff. This way he will associate your hands in his food with good things!
Also my guy is stilllll defensive of his water. What I do is make him wait for the other dog to drink first and then let him drink. He has to know that you're "The Man" and all good things come from you. This seems to be helping with my guy. |
| | | GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:21 pm | |
| I have used two different bowls so far, one is deep, other is shallow, makes no difference. I understand that he could totally be pushing for more dominance, which will never happen. Huskies are stubborn, but thankfully I am much more stubborn. He is fine with me petting him when I have my hand in his food bowl first or if he is eating off the floor, my hand, husbands hand, etc. I will try out a few more things, check to see if it is that he feels vulnerable while having his face in food bowl. He has bitten me maybe twice, got a decent grip on my hand yesterday. I don't think that will be happening again. I think my main issue is that I know he is smart, he catches onto the training extremely quick. He knows more than my other dogs knew at this age, he is almost done all of the grade 1 obedience and he isn't even 3 months yet. So I think it's me thinking that he understands that there is no need for food aggression when he doesn't growl or snap and few feedings in a row of me moving his food around in the bowl and petting him. So I end up leaving him alone to eat during the next feeding and it seems like we go back to square 1. So I just need to change my mind set and understand that he isn't catching onto this as quickly as the rest. Any other suggestions or insight is greatly appreciated as well. I'm trying to look at this from every angle that I can so that I can kick this habit while he is still so young. |
| | | TwisterII Senior
Join date : 2013-06-14 Location : Missouri
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:42 pm | |
| Do you do something with his bowl every time he eats? He may just be frustrated at not getting to eat in peace. I have seen this happen. _________________ |
| | | GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:53 pm | |
| No, I usually don't touch the bowl or move it in any way. All I want to be able to do is pet him while he drinks and eats, not all the time but to know that I can or someone else can and it won't bother him. |
| | | aljones Senior
Join date : 2014-08-18 Location : Terlingua, Texas
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:01 pm | |
| While the age of the dogs involved is significant, I brought home a rescue who had a food possession issue (actually "Possession of most anything"!) She'd eat from my hand without even thinking about it, very gently - my comment was that I had to be looking to make sure she'd taken it. When it came to her bowl, on the other hand, anyone getting a hand near her food bowl was apt to lose it - seriously! - she bit me like 4-5 times and it once took four stitches (and yes, I still have the 'lady') I went back to absolute basics with her: 1) feeding her by hand and she had to set and wait between 'snacks' of maybe 1/2 dozen kibble at a time. 2) holding her bowl while she ate - she wasn't impressed with this but eventually she got hungry. I'd have her in set/wait, put a part of her cup per meal into the dish, hold it while she ate; add more after she finished and went back to set/wait. 3) While I was holding the bowl, I'd add more; a few kibble trickling in at a time. 4) Eventually I set the bowl on the floor, with me setting beside it, I'd add food as she was eating - she'd sometimes look at me like "What's this?" but it helped. 5) Put her food out and let her eat unmolested. I can have her back away from her bowl, set and wait, but this has been, overall, probably a 6+ month experience but she was 4ish at the time so she had an ingrained habit to overcome. While she isn't impressed at all, now, about having another dog around her food, she doesn't object to me doing something to her bowl (which I seldom would do anyway) What really surprised me is that she doesn't object to the cats wandering around her while she eats and one has even snagged a kibble she dropped on the floor. I have to agree with Jenn's ( @twisterii) last comment. We've had people come here complaining that their dog is food aggressive/possessive - but they won't leave the poor dog alone to eat in peace. Needing to be able to take the food away, if necessary, is understood; taking it away repeatedly just to prove that you can is an invitation to get bit! (er ... I'm not even suggesting that you are, just commenting) _________________ “Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.” Corey Ford . |
| | | GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:33 pm | |
| I've been doing/doing everything that you've said. I have also let the dog eat in peace but when I then come over to pet him, I do not touch the food or bowl, he will growl at me and I can tell by his body language that he is really upset. Once I can have him eating by himself, walk over to him, pet him and tell him he is a good boy without him growling or trying to nip then I will be satisfied. I am currently working on having him "leave it" and sit away from his food bowl. I will just continue doing what it is that i'm currently doing. |
| | | MiyasMomma Senior
Join date : 2014-06-26 Location : west Texas
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:40 am | |
| Hi Gena,
I am going to be honest with you, some dogs are just not happy about being pet while eating. I understand that you want your pup to be well mannered in case of a child, however, sometimes it is easier to train a child to leave a dog alone while eating. I do agree with Al, it doesn't appear that you actually hand feed out of the bowl like he did with Sasha, so if you haven't used the bowl vs just you hand, try what he suggested. At 3 months old, it is highly possible it is a different issue, I really have a hard time with a 3 month old being food aggressive, so there is some other issue going on. do you have the other 2 animals? Looks to me like you have at least one other husky, from you avatar. How do you feed your other pets? Where in location to the pup? My girl is 4 years old and strangely enough she is food possessive yet not food motivated, ugh, yep it is tough. I have decided to feed her and leave her be, and ramped up my command training in other areas to squash a potential argument between her and I, she is a very big girl, almost 70 pounds. I have placed emphasis on drop it, leave it, move, sit and stay if I need to remove any food item, mainly with her it is raw meaty bones that she sees as a prize that she wont let go, even if she doesn't want it. Surprisingly enough she has no issue communicating with my gsd who is younger, and never had an issue even when my gsd was 10 weeks old when I brought her home. Yet was a bully at play dates with the water bowl. can't quite figure her out, lol, but I have found a happy medium. I will not allow her to beg when I am eating, if I can't bother her she can not bother me. All dogs are different, and sadly I do not want you to feel like you have failed if you can not pet your pup while eating. you may have to decide on a happy medium that will work for the both of you. My gsd, goodness, wow, I have never had an issue with her, I can pet her, sit with her, take away anything, 0 issues, never trained her to be good, never had to teach hand feeding. The last thing I will say.....if you have done what Al did with using the bowl to hand feed, I also feed a partial raw diet, and in this area I have very strict rules, I make them both sit, I say wait, and as young pups I said be gentle, if they were not gentle my hand made a fist over their food said eheh and repeated be gentle, when they took the piece in a calm gentle manner I would tell them good girl, and continue. What am I getting at? I had to use extra steps in the process of hand feeding, I taught gentleness with my hands and rewarded with the food and a verbal praise which can also include a physical pat on the back whilst they are chewing. See if communicating what you want in this manner and see if you get a better reaction. Talking in a soothing, gentle voice while teaching eating manners may be what he is needing. |
| | | GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:37 pm | |
| Hi Renee, Thanks for your reply. Just curious as to why you say it doesn't appear I hand feed out of the bowl? I agree that there is some other issue going on here and that is why I had mentioned earlier about possible issues with litter mates before being weened from his mother. Seeing as that is part of his imprinting stage (which he is currently still in) I wonder if litter mates picked on him while feeding time as he was the smallest. He also had no issues leaving his litter mates and mother when we picked him up, not once has he cried for them. That I had never experienced. I also understand that some dogs might not be able to be pet while eating but I will definitely try my hardest to kick this habit before he is full grown. As for my other huskies, sadly, they have passed on. As for extra steps, also currently doing that, clearly I just need to slow it down. Feeding time this morning went really well, hand fed him in the bowl while gently and slowly running the back side of my hand down his back giving praise for the no growling and we got through it without a fuss. So I know that he is capable of doing it, so I won't give up on him either. If he still growls once he is older with the water or food bowl I won't feel like i've failed him. I will at least know that I have tried everything I could and it just didn't work for him and that will be alright with me. But thank you for all your input. I was wondering if I missing something so that's why I have posted this, turns out I haven't, i'm on the right track, it will just take some time. So thank you. |
| | | aljones Senior
Join date : 2014-08-18 Location : Terlingua, Texas
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:05 pm | |
| Gena, I won't presume to answer for Renee In your previous message you said "I've been doing/doing everything that you've said" which suggests, to me, that you're jumping from one to the other as your mood strikes (sorry, that doesn't sound constructive ... I'm still waking up) My list is a series that I followed as I was working with Sasha. Each of these was a step to reach a desired target ... some took days, some took weeks - but we were going to reach *that* target before we went on. After having been bitten by her a couple of times, I had two choices - work with her to solve the problem -or- put her down. I wasn't passing a dog who had bitten me off to anyone else. I wasn't putting her down for a solvable problem so I had to work with her. While I still won't feed her with the other dogs, she has no objection to me being around her and the food, she has no objection at all to my touching her as she's eating and if I need, I can tell her to back away from her food. And, No, I'm not just going to reach down and take her bowl without letting her know I'm there and have a reason. I also agree that it's very unusual - in my experience - for a pup to have her degree of possessiveness at her age, as you said, there appears to be something else going on in her mind. Depending on where the breeder is and your relationship with them - if they currently have any pups in house, you might want to take a trip to see him working around the pups as they're eating. It's possible that he's done something that would seem 'natural' to him that has caused this reaction in your pup. _________________ “Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.” Corey Ford . |
| | | GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:19 pm | |
| Hey Al,
I've been working on this for the past 4 weeks already. So I had been hand feeding him, taking the food from the bowl showing him, he would eat out of my hand and I was able to pet him. Did that for a week or so at every feeding time. Then went to the food on the floor, would move it around with my hand a bit while he ate (pretty much just made piles for him to eat) and slowly pet his head and back. Moved on to the bowl on my lap, I would start with some food in the bowl and the rest of the food I would take with my hand, show him it while he would eat and slowly drop them into the bowl while my other hand would slowly pet him head and back. He got used to that, put the food bowl on the floor, did the same thing, got used to that. Tried leaving him to eat alone and would tell him I was coming and then would slowly pet his back like I had always been. He growled, so we went back a step. I am back to having him eat out of his bowl while I slowly put his food in it and I slowly and gentle pet his back while I praise him. It's working again for him. So we will stay at this point for the next week or two and slowly move my hand out and just continue with the petting and praising. I think I can get through to him, each and every day he grows closer and closer to me, and vice versa. I should also add that while feeding we are also working on the leave it, sit, stay, and any no's or whatever sounds are made when they break that cue before the release. He is getting really good at it, it's just that puppy hyperness in the morning when he has to do six laps around the kitchen before he will settle down. I just wait it out, once he calms down, we begin. I will look into the breeder and maybe even see if he will give me some numbers of the other people he sold puppies too, maybe they are experiencing the same thing, maybe not. Worth looking into though. |
| | | GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:22 pm | |
| I should also add that I only moved onto the next step once we had successfully accomplished the no growling/biting while eating or drinking for a few feedings in a row. If he growled, we went back a step and stayed there for a few feedings. |
| | | MiyasMomma Senior
Join date : 2014-06-26 Location : west Texas
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:51 pm | |
| Gena, Sorry didn't see that you had held the bowl and had him eat. Sounds to me he had to fight to get food, it happens, especially for the runts. I would continue hand feeding like you are doing, and just working with him in general to solidify the bond and trust, and build his confidence. Also once he is done with all puppy shots if it's possible, regardless of him knowing all commands, I would sign up for at least one 6 week group class, so he can mingle with other various puppies, learn how to have manners in a group setting, but also to see how he does with other puppies. I think you are on the right track, just excited at how intelligent he is, slow it down like you said and enjoy him being a puppy, it wont last long. So sorry to hear about your other pups. |
| | | aljones Senior
Join date : 2014-08-18 Location : Terlingua, Texas
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:08 pm | |
| Thanks for your comment Gena, it's difficult to *really* understand what someone else is saying in the written word - especially if it was written when they were frustrated It sounds to me like you're really on the right track to overcome his possessiveness - as you're finding, it can be a long battle - thankfully youre dealing with a pup who can change quicker than the 4 year old girl I had to deal with. Best of luck to you and your continued success ... even when it may sometimes feel like anything but success. _________________ “Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.” Corey Ford . |
| | | GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:16 pm | |
| Thanks so much guys!! Definitely working on the socialization part as well. I live in the middle of no where in Manitoba, Canada. Our winters are harsh and can't get out to see our friends and their dogs all the time either. But when we can we definitely try to make the most out of it. And I'm sure I wasn't terribly clear when typing everything out either. Sometimes I think faster than I type. |
| | | browny11 Newborn
Join date : 2017-01-01
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:52 pm | |
| We got our husky in August. He is about a year and a half old. We love him but he has been showing some behaviors that are starting to concern us a little bit. With my wife he gets aggressive. He bites and nips at her when she tries to pet him or grab him by the collar at times. He doesn't do this with me anymore but did a little when we first got him. He also doesn't listen to her at all. I know he isn't seeing her as a leader but her and I pretty much use the same training techniques. Any ideas why he is doing this with her and not me? |
| | | GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:55 pm | |
| I find that my dogs will usually listen to one of us better than the other, but I also do all the training and my husband just reaps the rewards of it. Is she using a stern tone of voice when giving commands? Is she nervous when working with or being around the dog? When grabbing at the dog, is it quick movements or quite slow? Can you do the exact same thing as her when grabbing the dog and does he react? Do you know any of the dogs history, when you know more about their background you can really start to pick away at what causes unwanted behaviours. What does she do that is different from what you are doing, are her body movements or postures different from yours? It's amazing how dogs can pick up on the slightest of things. |
| | | browny11 Newborn
Join date : 2017-01-01
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:56 pm | |
| She uses a stern voice and shows dominance like she is the leader. He reacts to her much different than he does with me, he nips at her and when she tries to take him outside he nips at her, yelps and bares his teeth. When I take him outside he just rolls on his back and makes it harder than it needs to be but doesn't do the aggressive things he does with her. |
| | | GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:03 pm | |
| Do you know more about his background? It could be that he was abused by a woman when he was younger and now doesn't trust them. I've seen that in many dogs but usually it's towards men. Can you give us as much background information as you know? Maybe we will be able to find out what has caused this behaviour because they don't just become aggressive for the sake of becoming aggressive. |
| | | browny11 Newborn
Join date : 2017-01-01
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:15 am | |
| The only thing that the shelter told us was that a guy pushed him out of his truck outside of town and then they got him. They had hardly any information on him at all besides his age and gender. But he looked healthy and like he was taken care of when we got him. |
| | | GenaG Puppy
Join date : 2012-02-09 Location : Manitoba, Canada
| Subject: Re: Food Aggression/Possession when eating from bowl Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:15 am | |
| That is terrible. Poor guy. Have you guys done obedience classes with him? Maybe that will help if you both go and the trainer will be able to give you pointers on how your wife can get through to him? Or maybe she can read body language of either the dog or your wife and help that way as well? Just throwing out suggestions. It's hard to tell what the problem is when you can't be there to see it for yourself. |
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