Hey all-been a few weeks since I've had a chance to stop in a say hello-between my parents being in the hurricane, my in-laws visiting, etc...it's been hectic.

Anyway-I'll post a more update-y post for the dogs later, when I'm not at work. I do have a question, and I'm hoping to catch y'all before the weekend hits and its a ghost town.

So Mia slipped her collar-again-last night in the pitch black, pouring rain, and took off running. My husband eventually caught up to her (but only because she stopped to poop). This is the second time in about a month that she's done this-she is very stubborn (LOL WHAT HUSKY ISNT THOUGH), and if she doesn't want to go in a particular direction, she WILL. NOT. She just stands her ground, and then gives one solid tug and off she is, backed out of the collar completely. The last time it's a miracle she didn't get run over.

I guess my question is: has anyone seen success with a martingale/combo/training/walking/whatever it's called collar? (Our trainer for Luka called it a walking collar, I've read Martingale and combo online, but if I'm calling it the wrong thing...sorry!) Or am I doomed to convince the Mr that prong/pinch collars can be used without being abusive?

We tried to use the Martingale on Luka, but he just pitched a fit...but he doesn't back out, just pulls. And quite frankly that doesn't bother me much-it's a pain in the butt, but at least he STAYS on the collar, and doesn't get loose. Mia doesn't pull, unless she's trying to back out to the collar.

We're lucky that the Mr was able to find her-our neighborhood doesn't have street lamps, and of course she ran into people backyards, and with no moon and pouring rain it's almost impossible to see her in the dark because she's so pitch black.

Anyway, I guess that actually leads me to another question. (It never ends).

Mia comes from an abused background, and last night my husband absolutely LOST it. He didn't hit her, but he had to drag/carry her all the way home, because she DID NOT WANT to walk on the leash. So as soon as we got her in the house he starts scary-screaming at the poor thing (even after I explained that to her it's just a game and this is what huskies do). To the point where she ran and hid under the couch to get away from him. So, of course, he tried to pull her out from under the couch.

Now Mia is the most docile dog I've ever met. She never growls, she never nips, she even gets scared of herself when she gets too excited while playing with us or Luka and punishes herself by running and hiding under the couch/bed. So I was very surprised that when the Mr went to pull her out, she immediately snapped at him and snarled. He tried again, she almost bit him that time... Now she's hiding whenever she seems him, and growls whenever he approaches where she's hiding.

I was able to get her out from under the couch and bed with no problem-just the normal "but MAMA I don't WANNA" sulking.

Question number...two? Three? Million?- Is it possible that my husband has permanently ruined the trust and relationship he's built with Mia? She's always been my dog, but I don't want the house to become "I can't control her so you have to 100% of the time" or stressful on Mia because my husband is home more than I with, what with being in grad school full time at the moment. (Obviously, I don't want him to get bitten or have her escape to REALLY get away from him, either). She was ok with him this morning when he walked her, but she was also half asleep and ready to come in for breakfast.

Help?

Oh yeh, it's scary when they get loose "Where'd she go??" Glad that hubby got her back in one piece.

I found a web site that list types of dog collars with pictures that helped me a lot until I figured out what people were talking about - but from your description you pretty much know what you're talking about.

My take on collars:  I've used martingales and, to me, it feels like they're too tight when you get them tight enough to be effective. (Effective: tight enough that they can't slip out of it.)  To me the muscles of the neck and shoulders are heavy enough that there isn't a big difference between them and a Huskies head - means it's easy to slip out of a collar.

I've used choke chains before with other breeds, but am concerned with the way a Husky will pull - I'm afraid that they'll just pull until something breaks (like the dogs neck / throat)  

I use plain flat collars, but them I don't have any dogs that will even try to back out - all they want to do is to pull straight out forward.

Sky came to me with a walking harness since Shar said that Sky would back out of a collar and had eaten one to get it off.  (Very similar to the on in the picture)  What I liked about it was that the chest and neck pieces all come together just over her shoulder blades and the leash attaches where they come together.  It's tight enough that she can't get out but still gives her room to "shrug" in it.

<< Chatter, chatter, shut up Al and get to your comment >>

What I'd do in your case would be either a head collar - others here use them to help train with unwanted pulling -or- if you're willing to tolerate the natural pulling I'd go with a harness.  Like many, I have an aversion to prongs and choke collars since they can be painful to the dog if used improperly.

As far as your husband having spoiled his relationship "forever" - let's try this example.  When I was 16 I borrowed my moms car and rather than doing the collecting I was supposed to be doing, took a friend for a ride in the mountains.  I let the car get out of control and luckily only banged up the fender - real good bang up!  I got home, lied about where I was so I wouldn't get my head handed to me.  Obviously in time someone got the tale back to m folks and I got my head (and other parts of my anatomy) handed to me!  And I sulked for a few days - well, longer cause I had to pay to have it fixed.

Unlike me in my situation, I knew what I was getting punished for - dogs have a very difficult time after the fact of knowing why they're getting yelled at and coming from someone they love, it's scary.  

Your dogs reaction was pretty much normal.  "You've scared me and I don't know why you did so I'm going to go sulk" So far so good.  When he went to pull Mia out from under the couch her response was "You've scared me, now go away and leave me alone for a while and I mean go away!"  Like any kid, they need a good sulk every now and then - and then, as long as it isn't repeated often - it's over.  So his "everything's normal" on the morning walk was because it probably was.  Dogs don't remember (or let the memory affect them too much) unless it becomes a repeated "thing".

We usually use the alpine outfitters harness for long walkies-but when she's determined she's been known the back out of that too. We've tried the walking harness but she won't let us make her step into anything for whatever reason, so that's always been a struggle.

Choke collars have always scared me because I'm paranoid I wouldn't use it correctly...

I've heard some good things about the lupine martingales, but you do make a good point about their neck vs head sizes.

The irritating thing is she only just started this a few months ago when we moved to the new house... the first few times she just froze and didn't know what to do. Now she thinks it's a game.

I just called the Mr, he said she's okayish now, still sulky but not growling so at least there's that.

I have a Weiss walkie leash. It can't be slipped and works with your normal collar.

TwisterII wrote:

I have a Weiss walkie leash. It can't be slipped and works with your normal collar.

That looks really neat! I'll have to look into that-she won't have to step into it!

Have you had any experience with a dog trying to back out of it?

I use carabiners to connect multiple collars in case one collar comes off or gets backed out of (Not a problem with Ami, thankfully but I have had collars let go, probably because I didn't latch them properly.) I also use them to attach collar to harness if I am using harness.

There is also this - easy enough to make if you sew using tubular webbing and a couple of snap shackles: http://www.leashesbydesign.com/ProngCollars/ProngCollarConnector/ProngCollarConnector.html

I also really like the prong. Used properly, it should not result in pain. However, given your hubbies meltdown with puppy, I would be hesitant. The prong should absolutely not be yanked on. In your situation, I think I would use 2 collars AND a harness and cobble them all together with carabiners and/or a prong connector or 2.

As for hubby losing it - that is the only reason my husband refuses to use the ecollar I have for Ami - he does not want to get in a situation where he gets frustrated with Ami not attending and then he just "sits" on the "fry" button. I do all the training, most of the walking, all the grooming, the feeding...hubby gets to do the "treating" things. Walks on a nice day in the afternoon, car trips for ice cream. Shares tidbits from his meal at breakfast and dinner. AKA - I'm the "bad" guy and he's the "nice" guy. You know...typical mommy/daddy stuff

Any possibility hubby could take a training class with puppy? (I know she's not a puppy puppy, but they are all "puppies" to me )

Yeah, with the way that he yanks on flat collars, I don't know that the prong collar would be pain free.

We've been thinking of enrolling her in a "beginners" training class, but I think it would have to be me to do it-the puppy classes we had Luka in were frustrating for him, and there were a few side eyes given by the instructor... Of course, then she'd try working on him and pass him back with a "well I should know better my boyfriend has a husky, too".

That's a great idea for the carabiners-we have a ton of them around the house-maybe we'll do that, too. We have enough collars laying around the house, haha.

Sad news though-apparently the whole morning my husbands been up (he doesn't have school on fridays, and slept in until 9 today because he was so riled up he didnt go to bed until 5 am last night), Mia's been scurring away from him and hiding, tail and eyes down, whenever he comes near her-worse than when we first brought her home. I don't blame her, he wasn't nice last night...I keep telling him-if you think they're bad, just wait till you have kids...

TigerCzarina wrote:

That looks really neat! I'll have to look into that-she won't have to step into it!

Have you had any experience with a dog trying to back out of it?

I have had both dogs try to back during different situations and they don't even come close. It's similar to a choke collar in that the harder they pull, the tighter it gets but it won't choke or hurt them, nor will it pinch since it does all the tightening around their chest instead of their delicate necks.

I'll have to show it to my husband again-I grabbed lunch with him and for some reason he thinks it goes around one of their legs? I thought it looked like it went around their ribcage, and from what you're describing, that makes sense.

Ugh, now to convince an engineer he's wrong about mental schematics.

It's around their ribs and behind both their front legs. I believe their website has a clear picture of how it works. For some reason my tablet isn't wanting to let me post links properly so you will probably have to copy and paste the link to go to a picture I found.

http://www.google.com/search?sclient=tablet-gws&site=&source=hp&q=weiss+walkie+leash&oq=Wiess+walki&gs_l=tablet-gws.1.1.0i13k1l3.1050.6920.0.7840.11.11.0.0.0.0.231.1478.0j9j1.10.0....0...1c.1j4.64.tablet-gws..1.10.1473...0j0i131k1j0i10k1.fAmCz8-mCF8#imgrc=yZxe0d1OEcRaxM%3A

Dev, I like Jenn's suggestion, and I know she has used it a long time with a bunch of success. The only other option I can suggest is the Easy Walk front clip harness, yep it is a harness but doesn't seem as difficult to get on as a standard harness. I know several husky owners who love this, prevents pulling, and since it clips to the front it makes walking different, since you have a sitter when not wanting to move on, being in the front and at the chest it will not harm the neck and throat area.

As far as Mia upset with the hubs, have him rebuild the trust, hand feeding, and maybe when you two have time together have a training session, he works with Mia and you with Luka.

Ah, that explains what I saw the other evening. I was out getting a bite to eat and they allow dogs on the patio. What I saw looked like the girl (owner of the dog?) had clipped a long leash to the dogs collar, and then wrapped it around the dogs chest and looped it through - just like the Weiss Walkie does. Wonder whether it was a Walkie or if it was just a long leash ...

Jenn - I saw a harness with a similar mechanism but different design on a dog at a car show a few years ago. I strongly considered it - was like a regular harness but with a martingale type loop over the rib cage. Seemed to work very well on that dog. And, Ive since used the principle on Ami, looping a leash around his rib cage when I need to do something that he is not happy with (usually some sort of grooming or health thing) and the mild compression around the chest seems to have remarkable either calming or controlling functions.

My boy has slipped his collar in the past (accidentally, he was trying to escape a situation not intentionally trying to slip his collar). Since then we only use a martingale/limited slip collar on him. We use the all nylon type, not part chain as I worry more about human (finger/hand) injury with the part chain martingale collars if someones hands got in the way...especially since we have young kids.

Anyway, this is actually the first I've ever heard of the Weiss-Walkie and I really like the concept and option of using it as a normal lead or around the body for when you need extra control. But it also seems like you could convert most normal leads into the same thing by adding an extra ring or carabiner to loop the handle through without having to buy an extra "special" lead. Thanks for sharing the Weiss Walkie concept, Jenn!

Val, that's sort of what I did.  Brought the leash over his withers, down and under his rib cage, up and over the other side, then slipped the handle end under the leash over the withers and pull back.  I used a 9 ft leash that I had made out of extra piece of nylon wedding.  I didn't have to do anything... just walk.  If he pulled, then the leash tightened around his torso.  If I were making this an ongoing solution, think I would use a wider webbing for comfort.

All behind his front legs.

It is easy to make without adding anything to your current leash. Just hook your leash on, wrap it behind the legs around the ribs, then slide the handle end of the leash under the clip end of the leash. I got the actual Weiss because they donated money to shelters and I need a longer than average leash and many normal leashes can be strangely short after rigging them. The thunder leash is the latest version of this to hit the market. Theirs is a flat leash though and their clip isn't a ring but instead is a hook. I'm not sure about thunder leashes design though with the hook as a loose leash could let it slip the hook.

Well, final solution decided by the husband was the all cloth martingale collars (for both dogs, he's concerned now that Lukas seen Mia do it he'll figure out how to as well...just like with door handles). I think I'll look into nylon webbing or parachord LONG leashes, and figure out a way to rig it like the Weiss. That way if he doesn't want to use it, I have that option when I am alone and have to walk them at night.

TigerCzarina wrote:

Well, final solution decided by the husband was the all cloth martingale collars (for both dogs, he's concerned now that Lukas seen Mia do it he'll figure out how to as well...just like with door handles). I think I'll look into nylon webbing or parachord LONG leashes, and figure out a way to rig it like the Weiss. That way if he doesn't want to use it, I have that option when I am alone and have to walk them at night.

With a carabiner backup to a 2nd collar? Just in case?

That's the plan. Husbands not sure if the carabiners we have are strong enough for the dogs though so he's going to order some mountain climbing grade ones. We have the camping grade ones you can get at target for $3-4 right now.

TigerCzarina wrote:

That's the plan. Husbands not sure if the carabiners we have are strong enough for the dogs though so he's going to order some mountain climbing grade ones. We have the camping grade ones you can get at target for $3-4 right now.

Good plan - the ones I use I suspect would only buy me a minute or two if there was a bolting situation. Enough time to grab the spare collar.

Quick update: we got the new martingale collars in the mail yesterday. So far, so good-but Mia hasn't seriously attempted an escape yet. Luka seems to be pulling less though, so that's something at least!