Hey guys. Hope everyone is well.

I am having some issues with Raiden. Every meal time I bring his food to his bowl and then make sure he goes to his crate to eat. But what I have noticed is that if I try to pet him when feeding or get near his crate when he eating. he snaps at me and growls. He bitten me pretty badly on my wrist once. I don't know what to do. He did not do this when he was eating kibble. Only started being super aggressive with his food when he went on raw. I feed him 4 times a day. Chicken Quarters, Chicken Hearts, and some time of liver.

I'll chime in on this - and since it's a weekend (I think) you probably won't see anything from anyone else till Monday)
Sasha, my Sibe came to me off the streets of San Antonio - she'd been 'rescued' and the woman decided that she had to go somewhere else since they were having a youngster.

I'm assuming that since they free fed her that they didn't know that this girl had a bad case of food possession.  After she bit me the fifth time - and I was stitched back together with 4 stitches, I decided it was either time to put her down or fix this! (And she's still with me, I tend to be stubborn!)

Sasha simply did not like / would not tolerate anyone around her food - getting close brought out a serious growl, getting closer would get a bite.  The last time was when I set Avalanches food on the floor when I brought him in, to let her out (er, he gets fed outside since I free feed him so if I let Sasha out on the front lead at night, I bring his food in first) and she started chowing down on his food.  I reached for it and she growled; I grabbed a broom to move the bowl out of the way while holding her leash and she climbed the broom and - well, that was four stitches.  You've got the picture of what I was contending with, yes??

I suppose it odd to say that she warned me and I continued to violate her space - I'd been warned so getting bit was all on me.

Most of this is 'documented' in this thread and you'll see a lot of my thoughts and emotions as I discussed this aspect of Sasha.

While this might be a little grosser with raw, I think you can do the same thing and get the same results I have.  Oh, btw, I can pick up her food bowl while she's eating and all she does now is look at me. I've let her out at night with Avalanche's bowl on the porch and she might look at it, but whether she does or not, she goes on past it.

I started off hand feeding her ... if she was going to eat, it was out of my hand.  I'd give her a couple of kibble, have he set and wait and then feed her some more.  
Once we were both comfortable (sorta) with that - and I'm talking a month or so, I'd hold her bowl, put some food in it and when she'd eaten that, I'd move the bowl away from her, add some more and - repeat, ad nauseam.  Again, it wasn't till we were both comfortable with her eating from the bowl as I held it that we moved on.
Since she was willingly accepting me adding food to her bowl as I was holding it, I just moved it to the floor beside me (rather than her 'normal' feeding spot) and repeated this 'adding some' routine.
Her food bowl's been on the floor now for a year or so ... and the only time she gets upset with me is when we're out walking the desert and she finds something too good to pass up (UGH!!!!! which means I really should work more with her on 'drop it' but I'm not concerned so I"m not sure it's worth the effort - if she wants to eat an old dried rabbit carcass, well I don't really care. [just don't breath in my face afterward!] )

The whole emphasis of this exercise is to get him to realize that this is your food and you're sharing it with him.  I think I'd take the whole thing out of his crate - his food, his crate - you need to break that mentality.

I will add to Al's advice....raw has 0, let me repeat ZERO affect on aggression while eating. He was too little to put up a fuss when you fed kibble. Take his food out of the crate and hand feed. It may be gross, but it will teach many things, and build a bond of trust and respect. Eventually I would make him work for his food, make him sit and wait then release to eat.....for now hand feeding is the best option.

A pic of my girls, I feed a partial raw diet, so I hand feed raw and make them work for kibble. My youngest is 6 months, and I have done this since I got her at 10 weeks old. I hold the piece, I teach wait be gentle, when they are calm they get released (I tell them to get it) and take their piece of raw, I will praise them when they are calm and gentle, I tell them good girl.....

I tried doing that today . I had a chicken drumstick in my hand but when he put it in his mouth he kept fighting me for it. We kept having a tug of war with the drum stick. I also have him some chicken hearts, but since they are small I gave them to him one piece at a time by hand.

This is where I start to get cruel ... there is no tug of war <period>  If he starts to grab and try to take it, you take it back and put it up.  Supper can come a bit later tonight ... for some reason, dogs understand quickly "I do what they want or I'm gonna go hungry!"
Use "gentle" or "easy" (whatever you use) and if he's not then put it up.  He's not going to starve before he gets the idea - though he may get a bit hungry.

Sasha often gets the end of my morning toast. The first time she nipped my fingers, she didn't get the end of the second piece and didn't get any for a day or two (though she did get her normal meals). She now takes it so gently that I have to be looking at her to make sure she has it ... she doesn't take it till I let go.

hey guys, i recorded a short clip of my puppy eating a chicken quarter... i tried doing the hand feed thing, but it didn't really work out to well.

This is the link. It is safe.


https://vid.me/4jyL

A short video to which I have several comments:

DO NOT TRY TO TEACH HIM NOT TO GROWL!! and yep, that's just how emphatic I feel about that.
Reason:  Any dog has a limited way to tell us humans when something is wrong.  It ranges from a dog ducking his head when someone reaches over them, for example, to a full out attack.  If I were to put them on a scale of 1 to 10, the ducking would be a 2 or so and the attack would be a 10, obviously.  A growl, such as Radin's, is a 9.9  His only next option is to attack.  If it's you he attacks / bites then it's on you; if it's someone else then Radin probably won't survive the aftermath, animal control will put him down as vicious in a heartbeat.  Laws in most states require the hospital / ems to notify local animal control / legal authorities of dog bites.  In my case, I knew the sheriff and since it was my dog on my property he allowed it to blow over.
My girl, who I still have, btw, has bitten me five times now - simply because I was too stupid to pay attention to her growling.  (( Hmm.. wonder what that says about me?? ))

If I were in your shoes right now, I'd go back to something I can control - kibble!  Obviously Radin places such high value on the raw that you're fighting losing battle.  If you continue, you're going to lose this ...

There are several threads on the forum about how to use hand feeding to relieve / remove food aggression ... I seriously think you need to look at them before this goes any further.

Oh and after a lot of hard work, Sasha will allow me to take her food bowl ... she's not happy about it, but she will (now prey off the desert, that's another story.)

I made a couple of corrections, I just realized I've misspelt his name several time, sorry.

I have issues with kibble. i tried cheap kibble and expensive kibble. He is good for a few days and then after he has really wet stools. With raw his stool is good but I have lost the power of taking away his food, with kibble it was easy because I use to hand feed him 1 piece at a time. I guess maybe I have to buy a grinder and grind the meat and then hand feed him?

DjSamphard wrote:

<< snipped >>
Every meal time I bring his food to his bowl and then make sure he goes to his crate to eat.
<< snipped >>

Paul, I'll make one more comment and then I'm probably going to bow out of this thread.
I highlighted the part of your initial message I did because you need to change the way you think about this - that will begin to affect the problem.
It is not his food. It's your food, you bought and paid for it and you're sharing it with him. If he can't act nice then he shouldn't get it <emphatic period>.

You go on to say that he's not good on kibble - and believe me I can sympathize with loose feces - but if you don't get a handle on this situation pronto, while Raiden is still a pup, you are going to have some major problems that you will not be able to control.
You may think I'm being over dramatic but the first time you have to go to an ER (or whatever you call them) with a dog bite is going to be the beginning of the end for Raiden. In Texas dogs get one free bite - the next bite will get them euthanized. In most of the 'civilized' world they don't get that, a bite severe to require a hospital visit will get them killed.

Loose feces is a minor problem, him biting someone else or you severe enough to require treatment is a major problem ... it's your call, but in my mind you're playing with Raiden's life.

DjSamphard wrote:

I tried doing that today . I had  a chicken drumstick in my hand but when he put it in his mouth he kept fighting me for it. We kept having a tug of war with the drum stick. I also have him some chicken hearts, but since they are small I gave them to him one piece at a time by hand.

Am I understanding that you are holding the drumstick and letting him at it? If that's the case, I wouldn't necessarily call that "hand feeding" per say...like Renee said, it might be gross but "hand feeding" a drumstick, to me anyways, would involve tearing it up in bite size pieces and handing them to him individually. If you feel it's necessary to just hold the drumstick and let him at it, then first Raiden needs to be taught to sit and wait for it. Feeding should never become a game of tug of war, the second he makes a grab for it, you take it and put it away, you need to be in control and Raiden needs to know you are in control. It's training.  It takes time, it takes patience, but most of all it needs to be consistent. Your time and patience now will pay off with a well mannered companion for the next 10-15 years.

I will try that. Ill go buy a nice cleaver and cut it to small piece so i can hand feed. Thanks guys.

Good luck to you, I know it's tough. I do believe hand feeding is the way to go with food aggression issues. You want Raiden to know that when he eats, even if you are in his space, that you aren't a "threat". One issue that *can * come up with hand feeding for too long a time is that the pup becomes accustomed to it and will only eat then when you hand feed him. Not saying it happens every time but only that it can happen. I would say to reduce the risk of that, hand feed a couple days or so, then feed by food dish a day or so, alternate between the two.but leave him alone when he eats. However, be within his space, not in his crate of course, haha, but within his space, walking around, keeping busy but talking to him and stuff, that way he sees you are around him and everything, but he doesn't need to fear you're going to take his stuff away. I know it sounds like it's going against "being consistent" but you're actually making the two things, one, and it's a consistency in itself. I believe in leaving a dog alone while he eats, but at the same time you should be able to be in his space/take his food away (or dish) if need be, without being bitten or even growled at. You're doing a good thing.

For the life of me I couldn't view video. Paul, it doesn't matter, I can tell by Al and Jimmy how it went.

This is a step by step way that you must do this, please do it, it will make a huge difference in your relationship with your dog.

Miya the bigger dog in my pic has the propensity to be food aggressive, today I call it food possessive, slightly different, but we have an understanding, probably similar to Al and his Sasha. The difference between Miya and Sasha is that Al's Sasha likes food and Miya doesn't, so I had to do things in a unique way, and like Jimmy added, you don't want to do this forever, but putting down the foundation, and doing this almost forever maybe the only way.

Miya is more compelled to eat when it is meat, her kibble most days she could care less, today I can pick it up, move around whatever. Meat on the other hand I have to strategize it. First off, i would consider feeding a partial kibble diet, so that you are not burdened with hand feeding every meal. Do not grind his meat, unless you feed the bone separately, he needs to chew the bone to clean his teeth, and work his jaws, without chewing up bone you will have a dog who will lose his teeth at an early age. So what I would do is remove 90% of all the meat and save the bone as a reward. I would feed one cup of high quality kibble once a day (I will give you a couple of suggestions that should help with loose stools, so hang on). With the raw cut up into bite size pieces. Sit at his level, make him sit, teach "wait" "be gentle", take a piece of meat place on your hand palm up, tell him wait, once he is calm tell him "take it, be gentle" talk to him in a calm soothing voice, if he snatches be firm and say be gentle Raiden, if he is calm and gentle tell him good boy. Proceed in that fashion until meal is complete. Give him his bone and leave him be, don't fuss with him. When giving the bone, again make him wait, be gentle, take it. If he snatches or grabs do a uh uh, be gentle. Give bone only as a reward, repeat daily. For the first 2-4 weeks, yes this long, I would if possible opt to hand feed the one cup of kibble. Like Al said you must make him know and understand you give him your food, you give him yummy things that you want to share with him. Make sure he is calm, talk in a soothing yet firm voice. Hold hand palm up, do not use finger tips where he can attempt to bite. If with kibble and raw after 2-4 weeks he is becoming good with you, I would make him work for the kibble portion of his meal. Put kibble in his bowl, make him sit, wait, place bowl down, make him hold the wait, increase duration of how long he must wait, then release him to eat it. Like Jimmy said be nonchalant, walk around him, make him aware you are there, but allow him to eat. Continue to feed raw by hand. Miya is 3 years old, and I still hand feed her raw, and do exactly what I just mentioned, she waits for her kibble, I hand feed her raw, and the bone is her reward for being gentle. If I must pick up her food bowl, I talk to her in that soothing voice. She can be bone possessive, and if I need to pick it up, I remove her from the bone, and I do it exactly this way every time. The way I do it is...Miya drop it (the bone), good girl, then I show her where I want her, I place her in a sit and stay, good girl, I pick up the bone. There is more to this than food aggression/possessiveness, it has a lot to do with a pup who is not well trained and does not respect you, trust you, nor has a strong bond with you. This is not criticism. It's because huskies are pretty stubborn and independent, and at his age he needs direction. Most people here on the forum will tell you that their husky puppy was not "theirs" until over a year old. It takes that long to teach respect in a puppy. You must be consistent, persistent, and calm at all times. If you slack off, so will Raiden. You must have commands down solid, not he knows how to do this or that, I mean he needs to have a solid recall, drop it, sit, wait, stay, laydown, leave it. You need to be firm with the commands everyday. Do not allow him too much freedom, he will take advantage. Slacking off or letting you guard down only allows them to use their intelligence against you.

Paul, some dogs are great puppies, my second one is. Some puppies require a ton of work, my older one is. I wouldn't trade either one, but I struggled for many months with Miya, but I do have a dog who understands the rules, I work within her boundaries as much as she does mine. Like Al said never teach your dog not to growl, it is imperative that you allow him to growl, no matter how uncomfortable you may get. Always stay calm, be in control, and ask yourself why he is growling. In all likeliness he doesn't want to be bothered, understandable on his end, but you must teach him that you are the food guy and yummy things come from the food guy as long as he is calm with you.

I suggest on kibble Victor Ultra Pro 42 formula, only that one it has Montmorillonite clay in it, it sucks in excess liquids in the digestive tract which reduces pudding poop. It is a high end quality food at a reasonable price. The Natural Balance brand, also high quality, a little more money, has I think 3 or 4 flavors, their Wild pursuit line. Lastly a super premium brand, costs a lot but also offers a variety of flavors is Nature's Logic. Be watchful of the brand names I have mentioned, there are other brands similarly named that I do not recommend.

Paul, lastly, if you need more clarity on any of this, any one of us are more than happy to help. For the sake of your dog and a loving lasting relationship, you need to get this under control now, as he ages he will be set in his ways, and undoing his bad behavior will only be more difficult on you.

Renee

I went back and read all of Paul's messages and perused the threads - and this is a classic (literally!) example of why a pup should be left with its siblings until at least 8 weeks and 10 is better.

With possibly the exception of loose stools from a food change, every problem he's had would have been taken care of in pack before he ever got the pup.

Al, yes I totally agree. I mentioned to Paul, the troubles he would have taking a pup so young, especially with inexperience in dog/husky handling. If Paul continues to read this, we are not talking about this because we are attacking you, on the contrary, this is to help you and any one else in the future who may have the same issue.

My 6 month old I got from her breeder at 10 weeks, way different than Miya who I got at 5.5 weeks old. Drastic difference in the two, regardless of their breed difference. Learning to share as puppies with their litter mates changes eating issues, and the excessive mouthing issues. Most people with those 2 issues, normally equates to getting their puppy at too young of an age.

Set aside the fact that most dog forums stress getting a puppy from a reputable breeder. Getting a puppy at 8-10 weeks old, regardless of where, plays a dramatic role in a puppies behavior. This is why so many huskies, gsds, pitts, just as an example get stuck in rescue, because people do not have the means of dealing with a difficult puppy that was taken away from the litter at too young of an age. Common denominators are excessive puppy biting, mis-assumption of puppy aggression, food possessiveness, inability to train correctly, lack of focus in a puppy. people get frustrated over these issues, and do not have a good understanding of solid training, they end up surrendering the pup, typically at around 7 months old, at the height of the teenage phase. For some puppies simple training works, but these are the pups who come home at an older age. Pups going home at a younger age, lack many social training with their litter mates, and now the human has to correct this. Without a solid training background, as in, being consistent, and firm always, an owner will run into difficulties. Going to a trainer who has a rich background in high drive dogs is my best advice. Not just basic puppy classes, because often times, the immaturity of the pup gets them kicked out. Paul, if you haven't I would call around and get a private trainer, to come in home, but also has group classes, since your next issue may be dog reactivity to other dogs. When calling around ask if the trainer is experienced in difficult dogs, high drive dogs, specifically the husky and or gsd breed. The two breeds as adults are different, but as pups they are very much alike. Learning proper ways to train and interact with your puppy is really important Paul, and well, sadly, somethings can't be completely conveyed online.