The vet couldn't do it.  I managed 2 doses on my own...once while he was zonked from the drug, once while he was unsuspecting.  Now he is HIGHLY suspect so have had hubby restrain.  BUt the critter is extremely wiry and strong and can twist his body in ways nature never intended.  I do not want him to get infection...the "thing" is still on top of his cornea.  I'm a little PO'd with the vet but I'm not sure she had all that many options.  She decided to wait until Monday before she sedates again,due to the tachycardia and temp he developed in response to the drug (turns out, not valium, something unpronouncable I've never heard of before...)

Any thoughts?  Bribery, cajolery, stern voice, manhandling...my arsenal is becoming depleted.

EDIT: I have not yet missed a dose, Wayne has been restraining...its just getting tougher and tougher and I don't know how much longer I'll be successful...

I manhandle. I pull them down between my legs, cross by ankles in front of them pinning their back against the couch, then hook their chin in the crook of my elbow so I can control head. Basically it's a full on spider monkey bear hug. I do ears and eyes this way and it has worked. The harder they squirm the tighter I coil around them. Eventually they will surrender.

Must be a Jenn thing... I also wrap my legs just behind the front legs and squeeze so they can not move. then get the one arm up under the neck and if its just me try to pry the eye open with that hand while my free right hand does the drops. Or have Wayne do the holding and you do the drops.

It is a PIA but it has to get done. i hope the eye heals up or the object moves out.

Thanks, guys. I certainly need moral support on this one. Archer is sooo traumatized after - he avoids me, curls up into a little tiny hurt ball like an abused toddler. I feel so guilty...but I'll be damned if he goes blind in one eye on my watch!

Will try with the legs thing in addition to the full nelson we've been using.

I like that description "full on spider monkey bear hug". Sums it up well!

Amy, to this day if Jack even hears me shaking the liquid ear cleaner he goes running! not sure how he knows that sound over me shaking other liquid but he does!

They will act pissed at you, but its is better then something bad happening because you gave up the fight! Keep it up

I'm sorry I've always just grabbed the buggers like the ladies above said lol. Do you have a harness? Maybe tie him to something when you grab him so that the isn't able to bolt away and hurt you. One time I curled around our old 130 pound mix and she bolted and ended up dragging me a few feet and trampling me. It friggin hurt.

Baw he'll get over it when he feels better I'm sure. He's probably trying to bs you into giving up lol. You're doing your best for him!

Rumflower wrote:

I'm sorry I've always just grabbed the buggers like the ladies above said lol. Do you have a harness? Maybe tie him to something when you grab him so that the isn't able to bolt away and hurt you. One time I curled around our old 130 pound mix and she bolted and ended up dragging me a few feet and trampling me. It friggin hurt.

Baw he'll get over it when he feels better I'm sure. He's probably trying to bs you into giving up lol.  You're doing your best for him!

Uh huh...with my steroid skin, I have multiple bruises on both forearms and down the sides of my legs from the leash at the vet's office

And, I really have to be carefull of my back - I have both lumbar stenois and a minor spondylolisthesis that gets real cranky in..."unusual" positions.

Maybe I'll lash him to one of the trees with a harness (that's a joke, for anyone that doesn't know my occasional sick humor.)

Yeah I can't do anything to Mishka's face either. He runs...the little shit. I have to sit on him (if I can catch him) or try to trick him. I even bought a muzzle because he will snap. I've probably wasted more medicine on the floor than managed to give him.

simplify wrote:

Yeah I can't do anything to Mishka's face either. He runs...the little shit. I have to sit on him (if I can catch him) or try to trick him. I even bought a muzzle because he will snap. I've probably wasted more medicine on the floor than managed to give him.

Yup, the way its going, now. He's starting to snap, we're considering muzzles. I hate doing this, particularly when this is preventive, not treatment. He has the debris on his cornea, there is NO sign of infection or abrasion. Just the possiblity of...

And Ami thinks we're playing and wants to join

OMG, reading all your posts reminds me of Kohdi! He won't even let me do the flea preventative drops anymore! And forget it if he ever needs ear drops again. Kohdi hasn't snapped yet, but he sounds awfully mean if I try to hold him down for this kind of thing, mean enough that I've considered the muzzle myself! The flea stuff I've managed to get on him though (just had to do it the other day, haha) the ear stuff ends up everywhere but his ears. I'm sorry Amy, but I really have no advice for you. With the flea preventative, I've been able to do it by letting him sniff the little bottle thing, then I give him his favorite treat (just any treat won't work, it has to be the one he really likes) I put the drops on, he tries to act up again, let him sniff the bottle again, keep telling him it's "ok" and give him hugs, scratch his head and all that stuff and it's worked so far. I know how I am when it comes to my eyes though, LOLOL, I feel for Archer! But I also don't think this behavior is something to be tolerated (?)...and with Kohdi, I REALLY don't want Mishka to *learn* that it's the way to be when it comes to her, she's a friggen lil angel with all this kind of stuff, I want it to stay that way! Hahaha

And to top it all off, we went outside for just a minute to look at the roof on the sunroom...came back in and Wayne's lunch (the last of the eggplant parm I made last night for dinner) was GONE   And the "little" black and white one was slinking out the back door...

Josh called and suggested that we take off Archer's collar and just hold him by the scruff of the neck - says that's how he gets things done that have to be done.  And not to tolerate the snapping.

Ami is a PIA with the flea/tick drops, too. but him, I just straddle him and squeeze and I usually get it in the right place.  But his is place in 3 spots on back, withers to base of tail, so then I straddle him at the withers facing his tail and squeeze.  I don't know if the stuff just feels cold or it stings.  I do know that I now where rubber gloves - his first application this year went more on me then him

I never thought about the drops being cold or something Amy, hmm. I do know that Kohdi wasn't like this with the flea drops until after the ordeal with the ear drops though. My original thought was the vet *caused* it because from the time he came home from the vet, he never let me put the drops in even though I had done nothing to make him "fear"(?) them, he wouldn't let me from the very first attempt, and my first attempt wasnt something he *sensed* wasn't quite right, because I had no need to feel cautious because I had never experienced that with him, I don't know, it's very strange to me because Kohdi is my only husky to behave this way. And yet, he lets me clean his ears. And with a little more loving attention, the flea drops make it on him too (3 drops like you do).

I would try the straddling with the ear drops, but I think whatever it is that's causing him to behave like this, can be overcome. Somewhere along the line, the trust thing got messed up here. I just gotta fix it. He's only 2, I don't want 12+ more years of this.

With Archer, Amy, by taking his collar off/straddling him/etc. it's just my thinking, but wouldn't it almost put him in that *defensive* mode automatically? Dogs sense things we have no clue they are sensing, so if we are approaching them like this, I'm thinking they sense it and automatically go in to defense mode and the " tougher" we get with them, the more difficult it gets with each future approach. I don't know that for sure though Amy. I get that feeling with Kohdi though, because like with the flea drops, if I take a little bit more time with him, make him more a part of it by letting him smell the little tube thing, talk with him, give him a bit more attention, he seems to relax more and let it happen. the ear drops, I started becoming sneaky, and it probly made it worse. However, like I stated earlier, I wasn't apprehensive about his initial ear drop attempt, so I dunno where it got screwed up there, LOLOL

Ok, I'm done babbling

Personally, Jimmy, I think you have a pretty good handle on it.

While I'm real leery when it comes to Sasha, I don't have a major problem with Avalanche.  Now, he's not impressed with getting drops put in his ears but the one time I had to use them - for something like 10 days - the first time we had a bit of a discussion.  Since I'm not concerned that he's going to bite - he'll grab, but not bite - I had him lay down which he does nicely enough; then I put the drops in high in his ear so that it ran down into his ear - mistake!  The next time he looked at me like "Oh no, not again!" but I had him lay down and then put the drops further into his ear.  He still wasn't impressed but he did lay still for it.  The thing is, I did not hold or force him - I depended on his trust that I'm not going to hurt him.

I think a lot of it is the trust issue - as you mentioned - Sasha's been abused by someone before, so she's very skittish when it comes to something different and she would bite to "protect" herself (even though *we* know she doesn't have to, she doesn't).

I tend to agree with your comment; had I forced / manhandled Avalanche, I think the next time would have been pretty near impossible.  There's no way, for example, that he'll accept the nasal "injection" for bordatella since the vet held him down and forced the issue. He's not very impressed when we go to the local vet because of that but loves going to the lady vet in Alpine.  It's a big difference in trust.

I wish I had some good advice for Amy but I'm not sure how Avalanche would handle the eye drops.

The number 2 problem is the gentamycin drops are going in the eye - not a pleasant experience to begin with and, 2 years ago, Mr. Ira gifted me with a whopping bout of conjunctivitis that just wouldn't quit so I was put on gentamycin drops. THEY STING!!!

The first night, before I saw the vet, I was able to flush the eye with eye wash 3 times...no battle. But he didn't like it one bit. Then the vet - he growled as she approached. Downhill from there. She requested a muzzle, he objected...like a buckin' bronco he objected. I'm almost ready to just bail and hope no infection develops.

Big boy is BaRkinG IN MY EAR. Gotta go

Thank you Al. I always hesitate to post to topics like this because I never know how it will be read.

Amy, I know how I am with eye drops, so if I ever have to use them on my dogs, I'd be in your position. No doubt. They would sense me being apprehensive about it from the get go. Personally, I'd keep doing the eye wash. I'm thinking if it doesn't eventually flush out with the wash, It's lodged in there pretty good and he'll need more than the drops to get it out. By Monday, if the wash hasn't gotten it out, the vet wanted to see him back anyways (?) the wash should keep it fairly clean until then.

Artic_Wind wrote:

Thank you Al. I always hesitate to post to topics like this because I never know how it will be read.

Amy, I know how I am with eye drops, so if I ever have to use them on my dogs, I'd be in your position. No doubt. They would sense me being apprehensive about it from the get go. Personally, I'd keep doing the eye wash. I'm thinking if it doesn't eventually flush out with the wash, It's lodged in there pretty good and he'll need more than the drops to get it out. By Monday, if the wash hasn't gotten it out, the vet wanted to see him back anyways (?) the wash should keep it fairly clean until then.

I don't think I was hesitating - I didn't even realize they were the same meds - his says Tobramycin and mine was Gentac (or some such). It wasn't until last night that Wayne happended to call it Gentamycin that I asked if that wasn't the same thing I took 2 years ago. Bingo. I told him then that that stuff STINGS!!! All the other stuff I took was fine.

I've found a more effective way, finally, though it results in a LOT going on the floor, just wait until he's sleeping or Wayne is treating him, walk up behind and give a good squirt. Don't know about the dosage he's getting or if it is optimally applies, but some of it is getting in there. I have to use his head shake as the confirmation, not my eyes seeing it going in. Live and learn.

Amy, it wasn't in reference to your comments - I don't think.  Most of the responses so far have been in the realm of "trap and hold" when it comes to doing something that the dog objects to.  I read Jimmy's comment to be similar to what I do - which is to depend on the relationship of trust between me and my dogs.  They know that I'm not going to do anything that will hurt them, so they will tolerate it when I do something uncomfortable.  I do *not* know if that would extend to something like the eye drops which would sting - and I'd really rather not have to find out, thank you very muchly.

On that note, though, since Sasha has been known to bite I'm much more careful when I have to do something with her than I am with Avalanche and it's a standing rule at both vets that Sasha gets muzzled before anything is done with her. She tolerates friendly strangers, is very intolerant of ones that she perceives as unfriendly.

I just dread taking him to the vet on Monday - first, the butorfynol (SP?) sent his heart rate over 200 for at least an hour and he was really hot (did not think to take temp, so worried about the HR) - Wayne was using a stethoscope on him every few minutes. Vet said give it an hour...So this time, he gets something else "in his butt"

Then the fact that it did not go well at all last time.

And it is so very weird...I can drop the liquid in, not holding onto him, even if he sees the bottle but let me try to hold his face so I can get accurate placement...forget about it. Let alone trying to restrain him. Ishould probably look up the gent and make sure it is not toxic to the eye if I'm getting to much at once (sort of doubt that, I'm also concerned...is he getting enough. Can't win.

I hate sick or injured pets

A few comments since I'm a naturally curious person.  Tobramycin and Gentamycin or here are two entirely different medicines (sorry, Wayne) though they're both in the aminoglycoside antibiotic family.

Oddly, Gentamysin is intended be be injected ( IV/IM/SQ ) while Tobramycin is an eye drop - and yes, it stings - it's not what I was given after my cataract surgery but I was given a prophylactic antibiotic, and since the 'cillin family doesn't work on me it was probably one of the mycin family - and it stung like a bad dog!!  I kept wondering what good was an eye drop if it stung so much that the tears washed it out?

Since he'll let you put the drop on as long as you're not holding him, what are the chances that you can get him to lay ( or set ) down beside you with his head on a knee.  If he's not actively fighting the drug, just the restraint, that might make it easier on both (er, all) of you.

Odd that I can't see the formula for either of them on line - maybe just didn't look far enough... ETA: tobramycin is C₁₈H₃₇N₅O₉ Gentamicin is C₂₁H₄₃N₅O₇

... and I definitely agree, sick pets are a PITA for so many different reasons ... it'd be nice if they could talk; then again, maybe it's good that they can't!

aljones wrote:

Amy, it wasn't in reference to your comments - I don't think.  Most of the responses so far have been in the realm of "trap and hold" when it comes to doing something that the dog objects to.  I read Jimmy's comment to be similar to what I do - which is to depend on the relationship of trust between me and my dogs.  They know that I'm not going to do anything that will hurt them, so they will tolerate it when I do something uncomfortable.  I do *not* know if that would extend to something like the eye drops which would sting - and I'd really rather not have to find out, thank you very muchly.

On that note, though, since Sasha has been known to bite I'm much more careful when I have to do something with her than I am with Avalanche and it's a standing rule at both vets that Sasha gets muzzled before anything is done with her.  She tolerates friendly strangers, is very intolerant of ones that she perceives as unfriendly.

Thank you Al, for explaining it wayyyyyyy better than I could. One of these days I will be able to post something and it will be understood the way I intend it to be, hopefully I try though!!!

aljones wrote:

A few comments since I'm a naturally curious person.  Tobramycin and Gentamycin or here are two entirely different medicines (sorry, Wayne) though they're both in the aminoglycoside antibiotic family.



Oddly, Gentamysin is intended be be injected ( IV/IM/SQ ) while Tobramycin is an eye drop - and yes, it stings - it's not what I was given after my cataract surgery but I was given a prophylactic antibiotic, and since the 'cillin family doesn't work on me it was probably one of the mycin family - and it stung like a bad dog!!  I kept wondering what good was an eye drop if it stung so much that the tears washed it out?



Since he'll let you put the drop on as long as you're not holding him, what are the chances that you can get him to lay ( or set ) down beside you with his head on a knee.  If he's not actively fighting the drug, just the restraint, that might make it easier on both (er, all) of you.

Odd that I can't see the formula for either of them on line - maybe just didn't look far enough... ETA: tobramycin is C18H37N5O9 Gentamicin is C21H43N5O7

... and I definitely agree, sick pets are a PITA for so many different reasons ... it'd be nice if they could talk then again, maybe it's good that they can't!

My mistake - Wayne said they are both in the same family, I misunderstood.

My eye drops were gentamycin

Almost as bad as a sick pet is an ailint iTunes/iPod that has all Wayne's databases, won't backup no matter I what I do, applied a massive update that put me over our Data Cap and required a half hour on the phone to use one of my 2 "get out of jail free" cards.  And now, it looks like that update wiped at least HALF of the apps he's downloaded