I understand. Thank you Megan

Megan, I did an admittedly quick search for Siberian Husky's for sale before I threw that $2500 out there.- while I have no qualms about what someone will pay for a show quality dog it completely blew me away what some "kennels" are asking for their dogs with "limited AKC" papers.  I understand that if you're showing and possibly breeding that you want the best money can buy - I would to.  If I were putting a dog in the ring (or on the trail) I'd want every edge that I could get.  
It just bothers me that the impression is sometimes given here that it's either the absolute best or it's a trashy BYB - life just isn't that simply black and white.  (excuse me for the soapbox)

Al, before I bought Kohdi, there were some breeders whose dogs I just loved the look of and was floored by prices of over $3000. I stopped at that point, I didn't even bother looking to see if they were reputable or not. But from what Megan said, I can know that without investigating them, they were not reputable.

I will just use this as an example.

There is a breeder not far from here who takes amazing care of their dogs. The people who get puppies from them rave about how great these people are, etc. etc. This breeder has produced 5 litters at one time to fill the demand of their waiting list. And they continue to breed this way year round.

Anyone you talk to will tell you they are a "reputable" breeder. They do not health test. They do not participate in ANY activities with their dogs. They breed horribly out of standard dogs - some wooly, some extremely large dogs. They only recently have put a clause in their contract that owners have to spay/neuter their dogs when before it was just "no breeding rights" and limited registration.

People bred their dogs anyway, there was even one girl who was trying to fight for the right from them to get full breeding rights after she had already bred and sold 2 litters from her dog as dual registration with the CKC.

Yes, they take care of their dogs, but I can guarantee you that they are also in it for the money. They sell each puppy for $550 with limited registration and currently have 15 puppies with a waiting list of 60 people. They are no doubt taking home several thousands of dollars a year whereas most reputable breeders make little to no money off their puppies. Yes, they want updates on their dogs once they leave but they do nothing when the owners realize their fuzzy puppy is turning into a 70lb dog that they can't handle or want anymore.

I know not all byb are this way, some are not as large scale filling a demand and others are horrible, disgusting places where puppies and dogs are not given an ounce of veterinary care.

The biggest issue most of us have with these types of breeders if they give no ounce of thought to the standard of their dogs. Those dogs are what people see as the norm and then everyone thinks it's what they should look like. It's harsh to say and for people to hear that their beloved is "faulty" or "out of standard" but that is the honest truth. No one is saying don't love your dog or think they are the best dog ever, but people need to open their eyes to the reality. These types of breeders are ruining the breed. We love the siberian for a reason, but why let that reason get twisted and wrecked by irresponsible people.

Sorry for that rant but I was that person who went to a breeder that I thought was good. I do not and will never regret getting Mishka because I love him to death BUT I can see that his breeder was not all that great. He had and still has his issues due to lack of socialization and not being with his mom and litter mates long enough. My eyes have opened after silently reading and observing people who are in this breed to preserve it and I don't see anything wrong with that either.

simplify wrote:

I will just use this as an example.

There is a breeder not far from here who takes amazing care of their dogs. The people who get puppies from them rave about how great these people are, etc. etc. This breeder has produced 5 litters at one time to fill the demand of their waiting list. And they continue to breed this way year round.

<< snipped much >>

Ashleigh, what I saw in your example is a full blown puppy mill.  You don't say how many bitches they had to "produce 5 litters" and I would really question how well they can take care of their dogs when they breed this way year round.  Breeding this way year round is not taking care of their dogs - it's abusing them. Much of your rant (your word) tells me that they're the type of "breeder" I'd stay miles away from.

Just out of curiosity, I've spent the better part of the last hour looking at "breeders" and "Kennels" in Louisiana and of the roughly eight I looked at, there's only one from whom I even consider buying.

Why?  Simply, what I see are people who are breeding for the money.  They're actually breeding non-standard dogs and seem to be proud of it.  Only one had any history of health checks, only one was not breeding woolies.  

You see, I'm not in major disagreement with the idea of breeding a healthy dog, who's a good example of the line within the standards of the breed.  Even good breeders have "one offs" dogs who, for some genetic reason are outside breed standard.  Good breeders make certain that this type of dog cannot be bred.  

While I think it obvious that I have some strict standards about what *I* would consider a good breeder, I also don't have the apparent qualms that some here do about breeding within those standards for pets.  I'll also note that in my mind, any dog bred as a pet should be neutered!  One of the "kennels" I looked sells their pups with limited registration (which means no breeding) but will offer unlimited registration for $2000 extra - that strongly suggest to me they're breeding for the buck!

Since I've completely hijacked this thread, I have a question for all of you.  What can we do to ensure that people are aware of how a good Husky should look and how they should act?  People seem to want a Husky and will go to any extreme to get one - how do we educate them about the breed, the normal standard and convince them that getting a pup who's been vetted is, in the long run, going to be "a better deal" than buying from the BYB or puppy mill?

I do jokingly call them an upscale puppy mill.

It seems like they currently have 15 females. A couple of which are young and not being bred. But they already have 5 litters planned this year.

None of the breeders I have come across in Louisiana would I buy from. They are all byb to me. One breeds wooly out of standard, one breeds 3 different types of dogs, one breeds for eye color, etc. I actually went out of state to Arkansas to get Mishka. Now I wish I would have known about the handful of reputable breeders just inside Texas because those breeders show, health test, and breed responsibly.


Part of it is exactly what we do here to teach people what they need to look for in a breeder. Part of the problem is the buyer. Most people want immediate satisfaction with no concern with researching and putting feelers out there to those responsible breeders. But also the good breeders aren't easily found. Despite all the research and searching I did, I only found people across the country and at the time it was not feasible for me to travel so far. I think there needs to be more information out there. But with the internet there also comes the downfall of easily accessible since those breeders who are just in it for the money advertise like wild online whereas most reputable breeders don't have the time (or are old school) to put themselves out there. Also sometimes the people who want the dog so desperately aren't going to be given a chance by a responsible breeders. (I don't even know if I'm making sense. lol)

This is a great article for those who have the mindset of "I just want a pet, not a show dog."
http://rufflyspeaking.net/i-dont-want-a-show-dog-i-just-want-a-pet/

Question: If they say they can supply hip and eye certification but are not listed as being breeders who have or currently are testing there dogs would it be safe to say they are faking the paperwork? and would it be that easy to do if someone wasn't looking out for it?

Hughie, I wouldn't know how to verify the first half of your question but as far as the second half goes, with the state of photoshop and it's ilk you can create almost any document you want. If there's a watermark or special paper it becomes more difficult. A good example is blatant forgery - before the fed put the watermark in our larger bills a good scanner and a good printer could print a reasonable forgery that would fool most people.

A kid I worked with one time printed a bunch (let's say 20 or so) $10 bills just to "see if he could", using a 15 pound paper and some scruffing I think they would have fooled most people -- Note, to my knowledge he did *NOT* pass any of them, it was strictly an academic exercise on his part.