Well said.

They're officially known as an E-collar right?

I think it is worth noting that when we refer to an E-collar (electronic collar) as a Shock Collar, we are associating it with an emotional, perhaps even moral weight. The term "shock" is far from neutral. It is heavily weighted with a specific meaning meant to invoke a specific response in us, specifically, not a pleasant response.

Even when we say "shock collar" out loud, we put emphasis on the first word. It is extraordinarily difficult to imagine a positive association with our dogs being shocked. That word is weighted negatively.

I think this is a large part of many folk's aversion to the use of an E-collar.

E collar, remote collar, I've even heard them called an invisible leash (which I think is ridiculous), shock collar etc. I'm not sure they are officially called anything, but they are marketed as e-collars, which makes them easier to sell than shock collars.

I'm not really a fan of shock collars. I understand that they can be a good second to last resort for a dog that has barking issues, but I don't condone them in any other way. If your gonna use them to train general behaviors, then you may as well just beat your dog when they don't do what you want. That's just the way I see it of course.

Their are one's that emit an unpleasant high pitched sound, or a vibration. I guess those one's are okay, but I wouldn't know, because I decided a while ago to just stick with positive reinforcement training. The biggest hurdle I find with training the huskies is their attention span... That high prey-drive just leads to a very distracted dog. Trying to train this out of them is my biggest challenge. Digger is making very noticeable progress, but Keyto... well I guess I'm trying to break the habit of a 5 year lifetime, so I only see very small amounts of progress with her.

I think someone posted here about using a e collar succesfully, but they had a trainer they were working with and they were using the lowest possible level (where they barely felt it). For that person, I just remember very good feedback on how it helped them a lot in a few weeks time period. Maybe they will chime in too.

At this point, I haven't found that necessary for Loki. The only days he was driving me crazy is when it was subzero outsite and I couldn't walk him or play fetch outside. Otherwise, his training seems to be doing good except for a few hiccups.

Using an e-collar with a modern, humane training method is not akin to beating your dog. I have personally put one on my own neck and turned it up quite high before it was at all painful. However, they most definitely can be used in an abusive way, no doubt about that, give a remote to a sadist and they will hurt the dog, thankfully, most dog owners are not sadists. Prey drive is a basic instinct that cannot be trained out. You can work to teach them to control/cub their impulses, but you can never train out prey drive.

wpskier222 wrote:

Using an e-collar with a modern, humane training method is not akin to beating your dog. I have personally put one on my own neck and turned it up quite high before it was at all painful. However, they most definitely can be used in an abusive way, no doubt about that, give a remote to a sadist and they will hurt the dog, thankfully, most dog owners are not sadists. Prey drive is a basic instinct that cannot be trained out. You can work to teach them to control/cub their impulses, but you can never train out prey drive.

True, but it does depend on the dog, for example if I was to put one on Digger, even on low (I have had a go with one myself because of my course, so understand what you are saying) It would cause a fear response in him. When you beat a dog you install a fear response. That's what I was trying to get across, suppose I didn't explain in enough depth...

Most people I know who 'smack' there dogs, don't do it hard enough to hurt their dog, but it promotes fear...

Do you understand a bit better now? I suck at explaining what I mean sometimes, you on the other hand are very good at it

That makes sense, and I completely understand why someone wouldn't feel comfortable using one. I myself, after much research decided not to. But, I don't think they are the evil dog torturing devices they are made out to be either.

I Would not use one. I do not understand the "thinking" of a dog well enough to know what is a productive jolt and what isn't. Improperly timed the dog can be taught to not do what you would like or even to do the opposite. I kind of think if I have a problem big enough to consider needing an E collar than I need a good trainer first.

I am with you there Hughie.

I used the e-collar with all three of my huskies with great success. If used properly and trained to use it the right way, it's an amazing tool.

I would suggest seeking a professional in showing you the proper way to use it vs teaching yourself.

Ive considered using the vibe type color on my 2 for a couple issues I'm having with them but I wouldn't do this without consulting trainers first then getting myself trained with the tool first. If your considering this only because of walking then I wouldn't use it I understand worrying for the pups safety but I would sooner not have the girlfriend walk her at least alone then use a shock collar because she cant deal with some pulling. That's not meant rudely but I can't think of another way to say it currently. Personally I would try some different harness and collar types combined with training first, she's still a pup after all. My last dog a husky Shepard collie mix didn't calm down with the leash yanking until at least two years old and even then if she saw a cat... forget about it!

Hayden_69 wrote:

I used the e-collar with all three of my huskies with great success. If used properly and trained to use it the right way, it's an amazing tool.

I would suggest seeking a professional in showing you the proper way to use it vs teaching yourself.

Exactly! Many a good hunting dog have been ruined by clueless owners thinking that pushing a button is a magic way to train. They are incredible when used properly. An example, in the final stages of teaching hup(sit) to flush the "tap" from the E collar helps break the fixation of the bird flushing and reminds the dog to hup for the shot. Again, I've seen it used by trained handlers, I am not a trained handler.

By the way, an e collar should never be used on a puppy. I'd say the youngest possible age you would want to attempt to use one on would be minimum of 6 months.

Ironically I don't use an e-collar on my Husky but I do use it with my other dog who is some kind of cross breed. Anyway, I was always someone who said I wouldn't use e-collars because they were inhumane and there were better ways.

Long story short I trained my dog using positive rewards for over year. She knew all kinds of neat tricks, she knew all of her commands, and she knew what was and wasn't against the rules. The only problem? She wasn't willing to comply with anything unless there were treats on offer and even then probably not. If she wanted to do something that she wasn't supposed to, she would just do it without regard for any consequences.

Putting her in time out didn't bother her, stopping play didn't bother her, she didn't respond to removing privileges, stern reprimands didn't bother her, bitter spray didn't bother her, loud noises didn't even register with her, lightly tapping her was nothing. Believe me I tried everything I could find, and my Husky trained fine using positives and light consequences. But nothing phased my other dog. It was getting to the point that I couldn't take her anywhere.

She loves people but she would get so excited that she'd leap up on them while we were out walking. At the dog park her recall was awful because she was more interested in the people and the dogs to care about any treats I had as rewards. I couldn't let her off leash when we went out hiking for fear that she'd go harass the other people on the trail. She stole any kind of food she could get her hands on when we were in the house. But the straw that broke the camel’s back was when she started resource guarding to the point where she would actually attack my other dog over toys, treats, food, my attention etc.  

Then a friend suggested I borrow her e-collar. I was hesitant because I thought it was cruel. I've been electrocuted before by an electrified fence designed for cattle. Believe me I am well aware that electricity causes pain. But I can't argue that the collar worked. On the lowest setting even, and now I only need the vibration mode to get her attention and remind her to get herself in check.

She's calmed down since the collar. She's more attentive to me when we go out. She's stopped doing the things she knew she wasn't supposed to but did anyway like jumping on people, counter surfing, stealing food etc.

So in my opinion positive reinforcement is great but it's only half of the equation. Some dogs respond to less intense consequences. Mine needed the shock collar.

I don't think it's pleasant by any stretch of the imagination but I also don't think that shock collars are as awful as people make them out to be. Some dogs don't need them, some respond well to them. They're a tool and it really just depends on how you use them as to whether they're harmful or not. Obviously they’re not the first thing to go to if there are other options. And if you have a sensitive dog then they definitely are not the right thing. But in my dog’s case, her quality of life has become better with the shock collar than it was without it.

I think with this owners particular issue, I agree with the majority of owners on here- the e-collar is not the tool that needs to be used in this situation. How much exercise is this dog getting before being walked by the girlfriend? Example- If he's going from being in the house doing nothing for three days, to "Please walk calmly next to me" - the majority of owners on here would say good luck. My point is, if someone runs the dog or they bike with him or something BEFORE the girlfriend walks him, he will be tired and less likely to pull. This will make the dog easier to control initially, while the owner and dog are learning to work together. Just food for thought.

As for the e-collar. I think it can be used with great success if used correctly. Obviously, as mentioned above- no one method works for every single dog. But think of it like this- You are a parent and your kid comes home from school, your kid says I hate math- does that mean he doesn't need to do his math homework? No. So what happens when your child chooses not to do his math homework? ... there's a consequence. He gets detention, or grounded, or cant have his sleepover etc. When used correctly the e-collar is used the same way. It's not meant to Physically hurt the dog, it's used at the lowest setting possible, to tap the dog on the shoulder and say "hey, you know the rules- if you choose not to follow the rules (ie, do your math homework) there's a consequence." Of course as mentioned above, when used incorrectly it can hurt the dog- but so can a prong collar, a gentle leader or easy walk harness, an extendable leash, etc. ANY product can be harmful to a dog, it all depends on how its used. I have personally put an e-collar on myself- I didn't feel ANYTHING until level 12, and even then it was not a shock- it tickled, like when your leg falls asleep. This is a device that has levels 0-200. Most dogs work on a setting at 12 or lower! I agree with the others, that its not some evil device that its made out to be- but its also not the correct tool for everyone to use either. I also agree with Jen, I'd never put an e-collar on a dog under 6 months! Just my two cents

I am the person who posted about using a shock collar and my experience. You can read the thread here.

https://www.itsahuskything.com/t11075-confession-i-trained-using-an-ecollar

I have a good amount of training experience (my family and I train service dogs), but when I adopted Anya, she was beyond my ability.

We did enroll her in positive reinforcement, and was unsuccessful.

A friend of mine who trains police dogs recommended I contact K9offleash, who were amazing.

Within 4 weeks, she went from maniac to off leash trained, certified therapy dog, and canine good citizen.

She no longer wears the collar, as she's successfully transitioned off.

but while it worked for us, ecollars are not magic, and are not for everyone

Just putting it on and hitting the button doesn't do it. It requires extensive work and constant consistency.

anyone interested should not use an ecollar alone.

I don't care how many books or websites you read, you need a very experienced trainer who knows how to use the collar effectively and humanely. Your dog should never yelp, shake their head, or show distress. If they do, fire your trainer and get the collar off.

As I said, we used K9 off leash, and highly recommend them. But do your research before exploring, and certainly try other training methods beforehand.

^ well said!!! I completely agree