Poor puppy! Was that the first time you gave him milk thistle? Hard to think it was just a coincidence if that was his first dose.

I'd say it probably was coincidental, but definitely bears monitoring. Do you log his seizures? I had found an app called Track It! not long before we lost Shadow, and it was an excellent tracker/log. Logging can help you spot patterns and maybe narrow down some triggers as well.

blueeyedghost wrote:

I'd say it probably was coincidental, but definitely bears monitoring. Do you log his seizures? I had found an app called Track It! not long before we lost Shadow, and it was an excellent tracker/log. Logging can help you spot patterns and maybe narrow down some triggers as well.

Yeah, I log all of them, but I will check that app out, it may be easier to track rather than using my notepad on my iPhone.

The seizure was very mild, and he seemed like he was mostly "with it" during it, and it only lasted less than a minute, and it was about 1 1/2 hour after I gave him the milk thistle. Other than that, nothing out of the ordinary happened.

@Meridith. Were you ever able to pinpoint a trigger/s in Shadow's seizures? I kept a log (written) of Malukhai and Anuschka's seizures for years (Malukhai 3 1/2 yrs and Anuschka 8 yrs.) and nothing stood out to me. After they passed away I went over their logs over and over, with Anuschka, absolutely nothing stood out...with Malukhai, there was one specific day in common in all 3 yrs he seizured (December 21, Winter Soltice) and maybe stress, more than a few times I noted that the noise from the military jets practicing were making him "hide" and some seizures occured on these days. I know the list of possible triggers is EXTENSIVE and there is SO MUCH that is so much a part of every day life, but at the same time I feel really bad that I could never pinpoint even one thing that could have prevented a seizure. So I was just curious if you, or anyone else has been able to.

Arctic_Wind   We tracked Lyra's seizures and for the first year they generally correlated to the full moon, and sometimes to the new moon. Not to make light of the situation, but we do refer to her as our "werepuppy".

I should add that we increase Lyra's dosage of Levi for the 6 days around the full moon, knowing that that is her trigger.

Shadow's were always difficult to pinpoint, but from what we could tell there were 3 triggers. Activity, major weather systems (I think the change in atmospheric pressure affected her intracranial pressure, just like how my ankle hurts when the weather changes), and low levels of meds in her bloodstream. We chose to not restrict her activity level, we wanted her to be as normal as possible and we accepted the potential consequences. For the rest, we just adjusted the meds to get stuff spread out and had stuff ready when the weather was bad.

@Cyberpup and blueeyedghost,

Thank you for responding, I appreciate it. Anuschka did pass away on a full moon, however after going online and doing a search on full moon dates here, and comparing them to the dates of both Malukhai and Anuschka's seizures, only approximately 3 for each coincided with a full moon. After Malukhai had passed away, I went online again researching anything I could on seizures and had for the first time read about the seizure/full moon phenomenon. On the night Anuschka passed away, a full moon, I even slept on the floor in her room...just in case. What was really strange is I was awakened during the night by "digging" in my comforter, Anuschka did that all the time (she used to make herself a little "hole" to lay in) so I lifted my head and looked, I did actually see a silouette of a husky face (it was very dark in the room of course, but the light from the full moon outside was illuminating certain parts of the room) I even said "Nuschka, what are you doing", put my head back down and then remembered why I was on the floor and got back up to see if she was ok...she was laying on her bed, in the same place she was when I went to sleep, she had never moved. It was freaky!! Next time I woke up, she was in a seizure. She never recovered from it of course.

Thank you again for responding. I will probably never know the triggers. I do still try to figure it all out though.

Yukon had another seizure last night, however I think it had more to do with the medication. In January, they upped him to one 97.2mg pheno bill twice a day, so he is getting close to 200mg per day. I had some leftover pills (60mg and 15mg pills) and I was combining them to get him close to the dosage that was needed. I also think he had a seizure in his crate, because after work he peed his crate.

I stopped giving the leftover pills and am giving him the 97.2mg pills...however last night and today he is acting very strange. First, he is being super aggressive with getting into stuff. He gets in your face and counter surfs way worse than before yesterday. He is constantly restless and walking around. Last night he went to the door and just peed on the floor instead of waiting for me.

This morning, he seems very restless and running around, which is not like him. And he was playing with the other two but when I watch him he is shaking, like someone would if they were cold.

Jason

Good luck with Yukon. I know the phenol makes them hungry: Lyra will counter surf with a vengeance whenever she gets the chance. I suppose as the pheno suppresses brain functions (to stop seizures) it also suppresses the inhibitions that we have tried to teach them, so they forget that counter surfing isn't allowed, and they don't (or can't) wait for us to take them outside.

Kevin

Since last week I have switched him over to his regular prescription pheno and he has went back to acting normal, and we have not have any additional seizures.

That's good to hear, Jason; every time I see you post on this thread, I dread going to read it since I don't know whether it's going to be good news or not. Really glad to hear that things have settled down for you all again ....

Jason

I came across this site:

http://www.snowdog.guru/zinc-deficiency-seizures-huskies/

I can't speak to any of the information there with respect to zinc, but the descriptions of seizures, and the information on the standard medicines for seizures is spot on. You may find the site informative.

Hope Yukon is doing well?

Cheers,
Kevin

So, Yukon was doing pretty good, but last night I thought things seemed a little "off". First, his fur was a little matted and then I went upstairs and his crate was moved around. I looked in his crate, and there was scratches in it, and fur stuck to the walls, and then I saw he had pooped in the crate. Not a lot, just a few spots in the corner. I have a webcam set up to record during the day, so I looked through the footage, and saw that he had a seizure in his crate about 10:15am. He has been on the increased dosage of pheno since January, so I can't figure out why he keeps having them like every month. Is that normal or an epileptic dog to have monthly seizures while on the meds? I am going to talk to the vet and see what they suggest, because I don't think that should be happening. Either his liver is processing it way too quickly and the dosages will just have to keep getting increased, or they need to switch his meds completely. Either that, or I guess we just deal with him having regular seizures and hope they don't get too severe.

Anyway, wanted to give an update, I wish it was a more positive one.

Jason - some information on Lyra that my help you with Yukon. We took Lyra to a neurologist when she first started having seizures. Lyra started on Levi, then we added potassium bromide to her meds, and finally added pheno barb. Her neurologist told us that most, if not all, the huskies she has treated needed multiple medications. I think I have read that still having one seizure a month or so is considered to have them under control. Before we settled on her current mix of meds Lyra had several "breakthroughs" where the seizures started to occur several times a day. We thought we were going to lose her when these happened. Increasing the pheno level was the final change that stabilized her. We know she still seems to be just on the edge some times and she may be having a partial seizure where she shakes her head repeatedly and her ears are no longer symmetrical on her head. When this happens we giver her valium to stop the partial seizure from turning into a full seizure. You may want to find a neurologist for Yukon. Lyra's normal vet turns out to have been a student of her neurologist when she was a professor, I think at Texas A&M.

Good luck with Yukon!

Jason, guy, I thought you had that under control! Sorry to hear that there's been another one. Though I think Kevin's right in that the occasional seizure is "acceptable" (( NOT from my viewpoint )) even if it is rough on all.

Kevin - Texas A&M probably is the BEST vet school in the US (though I might be a bit prejudiced, considering where I live )) I do know from others experience with them that they tend to be on the cutting edge of new and innovative education.

I called the vet and left a message with the secretary for the vet to call me back. I have been looking into it and the Potassium Bromide seems like it might be worth mentioning. I will keep you posted.

Sorry dude. I'll echo what Kevin said, a lot of dogs do need multiple meds. Shadow was on Levi, Zonisamide, and Phenobarb and we still had breakthroughs. Remind me, are you guys using any of the cannabidiol supplements?

Feel free to hit me up on Facebook too, I'm doing some running around now but ill be home shortly.

No, I didn't do any of the canna treatments. I looked into it, but haven't purchased it until I was going to talk to the vet, which I forgot all about actually.

I did just talk to him, and he said to keep his dosage the same, but just give it to him every 8 hours for a few weeks. I mentioned the potassium bromide, and he doesn't want to change up his meds right now. He said it is considered "normal" and under control to have breakthrough seizures once a month, and most of the dogs do not have their seizures eliminated alltogether.

Well, today was a bad day...

Yukon had a seizure in his crate...I think it was because someone was home, and he wanted to be let our but couldn't be and stressed himself out. After the seizure he pooped his crate and made a huge mess. He had to be left outside until it was cleaned up. It was another hour before I got home from work, so I took him upstairs in the bathroom to get ready to bathe him and he was freaking out and had another seizure. Then, after I was almost done bathing him he had a third seizure in the tub.

I gave him some of the valium the vet gave me and an extra pheno pill, but my regular vet is closed, so I decided to monitor him tonight. He hasn't had anymore so I am hoping he will be fine tonight. I called and left a message with the vet to call me back, because these meds are not working. Last time he said to just split his meds up 3 times a day, every 8 hours, but that wasn't feasible so I have been giving him 1/2 pill 4 times a day.

I hope they can do something. It's getting costly and becoming financially difficult to keep having tests, and if I have to take him to the emergency vet I am not sure what I am going to do.

Hope he is OK tonight and the vet can give me some advice on what to do.

Jason, I can't imagine the pain *you're* going through ... I think the not knowing has got to be wearing you down: I thin most of us can bear up if we understand what's going on but not knowing, man, that's got to be as hard on you as the seizures are on Yukon.

Maybe something to think about, I've thought before that your expenses with him have got to be "difficult" - - is there a way we can help a bit with the expenses? I couldn't do much (on SS and that) but I'd be glad to drop a little into your kitty if you'd let me.

Jason

With the valium, you are giving him the valium rectally, correct? Dogs will absorb very little of the valium if given orally.

I would suggest you seek out a neurologist for Yukon. Three seizures within a short period is starting to sound like cluster seizures. Lyra at first would just have a single seizure, then each month that turned into cluster of seizures. Lyra's neurologist changed her meds (adding a second medication) after an episode with 5 or 6 seizures. I was told that every seizure lowers the threshold for the next one. This make it imperative to find the right dosage or the right combination of meds.

Our thoughts are with you and Yukon!

aljones wrote:

Jason, I can't imagine the pain *you're* going through ... I think the not knowing has got to be wearing you down: I thin most of us can bear up if we understand what's going on but not knowing, man, that's got to be as hard on you as the seizures are on Yukon.

Maybe something to think about, I've thought before that your expenses with him have got to be "difficult" - - is there a way we can help a bit with the expenses?  I couldn't do much (on SS and that) but I'd be glad to drop a little into your kitty if you'd let me.

thank you so much for that. I did set up a gofundme page, but I don't want to post the link because I am not sure if that violates forum rules or not. It has been really expensive. His meds are not too bad, but they want to do $200 tests every 6 months, and dogs are expensive as it is!

The vet saw him today, and looked over his chart and decided to up his dosage again. He will be on 97.2mg of pheno three times a day. This is 3x what he started on just about 18 months ago.

If that doesn't work he wants to put him on potassium bromide in addition to the pheno. We have to go for more tests in 3 weeks.

He hasn't had anymore seizures since yesterday. It has been very stressful and I feel drained. That and I got some bad news about a very good friends mom as well, so it was just an awful day yesterday.

I started a job in Chicago back in October so the commute is pretty brutal so I am just wiped out. I have an interview with an insurance company tomorrow, and their office is just a mile away, so I am hoping this pans out, I feel like I need to be closer to the doggies.

Cyberpup wrote:

Jason

With the valium, you are giving him the valium rectally, correct? Dogs will absorb very little of the valium if given orally.

I would suggest you seek out a neurologist for Yukon. Three seizures within a short period is starting to sound like cluster seizures. Lyra at first would just have a single seizure, then each month that turned into cluster of seizures. Lyra's neurologist changed her meds (adding a second medication) after an episode with 5 or 6 seizures. I was told that every seizure lowers the threshold for the next one. This make it imperative to find the right dosage or the right combination of meds.

Our thoughts are with you and Yukon!

I have him the valium orally, but he did get it all down. The vet gave me another prescription for the pill form, so I won't have to worry about that in the future.

I wish I could afford a neurologist, but right now I don't think that is possible. If my vet runs out of options, I will revisit that in the future.

@jschrader Gonna have to give me some help for the gofundme link (like a PM, maybe) I've used every combination of yukon / jason / schrader / indiana that I can think of and come up with nothing ...