I like using over the counter WormX for worms if the dogs pick them up outside of the HW prevention.

I've never actually had Ami tested or seen any worms. I assume, since he is outdoors and eats little furry things (mice and voles) with an occasional cat poop appetizer, that he probably has some sort.

Though I should probably rethink this, now. Somehow, in the last 6 mos. his cat poop attraction has almost totally disappeared. And, he hasn't eaten a furry think in a couple of months. I try to keep him from drinking ditch water but am not always successful. And forget about eating "nature's ice cream". He much prefers snow to fresh, clean water

Amy, ivermectin controls heart worms, whip, round and hook. There are several types of tape worm, although tape is not life threatening to otherwise healthy dogs, it is a problem when it's severe. Most tape worm medications treat the flea type only, the wormx that Val mentions is a product i would recommend to people because it treats the 2 most common tape worms in dogs, praziquantel is the key medicine for the treatment. Several months ago I did a thread on tape worms. Although not life threatening, they are life interrupting, changes in appetite, butt scooting, and when it's bad lack of a lot of husky activity. Because so many other issues can be the problem, tape worms is often times dismissed, difficult to diagnose as well, stool samples often times turn up negative. The thing that freaked me out about tape the most is that the size of the worm that you may or may not see (because they shed on the end of your dogs but and appear on their tail, they may scoot it away so you may never see one) is measured in feet, so a one inch worm you see may be a foot long inside your dog, I can't imagine that to be a pleasant experience. I did a lot of research, and for the most part excluding heart and tape, adult dogs have worms but lay dormant and may never bother your adult dog again, unless major trauma typically bitches having pups, hence why puppies have worms. Heart and tape are the only types of worms that most adult dogs can have (not saying always the case), but typically adult dogs are only vulnerable to heart and tape. I hope I cleared that up and maybe helped someone.

I do use the Iverheart Max, because A) I am not confident like others here on administering the Ivomec, and B) Iverheart Max is the only heartworm preventive on the market currently that will treat both types of tape, it's just like Heartguard plus, but with the added tape worm med(and it is cheaper than Heartguard). If I was like Val and others I would go the Ivomec way and treat parasites with the wormx. My biggest concern is not knowing my dog has tape, I believe that it went undetected for close to a year and a half, the tape Miya had was somewhere around 3 inches(I would have to look at my thread to refresh my memory), so therefore it was approximately 3 feet long. As a puppy her deworming schedule only included for the flea type tape, I believe she got the second type of tape at about 3-4 months old when she discovered a rabbit den, and yes killed the 3 babies who were occupying that said den. I did not see the worm on her butt until she was 17 or 18 months old. The vet dismissed me every time I asked for them to check her.

Since it's been a while I am going to update. After finishing off the dogs' prescription heartworm meds I have switched them over to the 1% injectable cattle wormer Ivomec every 45 days. We've been using the 0.003 cc per lb formula. So Dakota at 50 lbs gets 0.15 cc and little 5 lb Prince gets 0.015 cc mixed in their food. We've not had any problems to speak of since the switch! And I'm using a 0.5 cc syringe for dosing purposes. I wish I'd made the switch sooner.

My boy weighed 24.8 pounds when i took him for his next Iverhart max pill. The vet gave me the next step up dosage for dogs 25 pounds and up and said that Mylo is really close to that mark do it's safe. So my question to y'all is if it really is okay?
He's been taking the previous dosages of Iverhart max smoothly but I just feel nervous about this bigger/ higher dosage. I was suppose to give it to him on the 25th but I've been waiting around lol

I think you are fine David. Your vet, I hope, knows best. I buy mine through Walmart, and they could not get me the 50 pounds and up and got me the 25-50 pound package and told me to double up. The pharmacist was quite helpful, she double checked on my girls weight, since dosage sometimes becomes questionable when your dog is borderline like Mylo. She also agreed that I had a 15 day window(meaning you can go every 45 days on the dosage, as long as you pay attention to the dates. She said it is recommended to do every 30 days, because it's easier for people to remember). I suspect that Mylo, will increase his weight within the next month or two, many go through a big growth spurt right around 8 months. (I posted a reply to you on the 6 month old weigh in thread).

MiyasMomma wrote:

I think you are fine David. Your vet, I hope, knows best. I buy mine through Walmart, and they could not get me the 50 pounds and up and got me the 25-50 pound package and told me to double up. The pharmacist was quite helpful, she double checked on my girls weight, since dosage sometimes becomes questionable when your dog is borderline like Mylo. She also agreed that I had a 15 day window(meaning you can go every 45 days on the dosage, as long as you pay attention to the dates. She said it is recommended to do every 30 days, because it's easier for people to remember). I suspect that Mylo, will increase his weight within the next month or two, many go through a big growth spurt right around 8 months. (I posted a reply to you on the 6 month old weigh in thread).

Thanks for replying! And yes I remember your post from that thread..I'm also expecting a late growth spurt, my girlfriend is anxious for him to be bigger lol Anyways, alright I think I might just give t to him for dinner tonight then.

David, as Renee said, I think he'll be fine. I used to give the 51-100 lb Heartgard even though my boy fluctuated between 48-50 lbs. He just always managed to come in at 50.something when we went to the vet.

So I just went to a lunch lecture about heartworm... definitely want to keep up with those monthly doses!

Lrose1990 wrote:

So I just went to a lunch lecture about heartworm... definitely want to keep up with those monthly doses!

Can you give us more information on what you learned ( and who sponsored the lunch). I love in cold northeast and give heartworm preventive from mid may/first of June until first of Dec. With alterations made for either unusually warm weather or travel south.

The lunch was sponsored by Merial, so of course, if you wanted to claim bias, you could try. Alas, all they gave us was crappy pizza, so not the best selling point ever. When you're a poor vet student, you jump at the chance for free food, even if it's crappy pizza. But it takes more than that to buy my loyalty, is all I'm saying

Most of it was about the life cycle of the heartworm organism itself, and why the heartworm societies recommend the drugs be given monthly. Also about owner education regarding the role of mosquitoes in transmitting the disease (believe it or not, there are people who don't know mosquitoes are the vector). I've had veterinary parasitology before, so most of it was old information (and the course was not sponsored by anyone, by the way) for me.

Essentially, we should be calling it heartworm DISEASE prevention, as it doesn't prevent an infected mosquito from putting the nematodes into the dog's body. Mosquitoes take a blood meal from an infected animal, and the larvae go through a couple of life stages in the mosquito's salivary glands. When the mosquito eats again, they spit (stuff they don't want in the blood, anticoagulant, etc) and in go the baby heartworms. The worms migrate through the body in the tissues and grow. Once they reach a certain life stage, they migrate into the blood vessels and migrate to the pulmonary arteries (the name heartworm is actually a misnomer, as the arteries are typically where they live), where they become sexually mature. If the animal is infected with both sexes (single sex infections can occur), the worms mate and microfilaria are produced. Then the mosquito takes a blood meal from the infected dog and the cycle starts all over again.

So most heartworm preventatives can only kill the worms at the tissue stage. Because of the chronic nature of the worm's life cycle, you have no way of knowing what stage your dog is infected with. The SNAP tests, etc detect an antigen (stimulus) produced by the adult female worm, so if your dog tests positive, they have adult worms and have been infected for some time. Microfilaria (baby heartworms) will not grow to adults in the dog (they need to complete the mosquito part of the life cycle first) and are not quite as alarming. But multiple stages can occur at the same time, especially if the preventatives have been discontinued for several months.

Essentially, monthly/year-round recommendations are used because current data suggests it takes anywhere from 52-70 days (no way of knowing where your dog falls in this range) for the worms to reach the stage where we can affect them with most drugs. If, for example, your dog is bitten by a mosquito at the end of the summer (sept/oct) and you discontinue the meds, you may miss some of the tissue-stage worms during the winter. So, if you're going to do a seasonal prevention routine, don't stop it so early in the fall. Wait 1-2 more months and THEN it's safer. If it's a mild winter, you may have to wait longer. Unfortunately not all owners start back up again, or do so late, and this renders their dogs susceptible. Monthly prevention catches as many worms as possible, but again, if you're going to do seasonal prevention, make sure you wait to stop for at least 1-2 months after the mosquitoes do.

The truth is that we can't actually stop the mosquito from infecting your dog. We can intercept the worms before they become a problem, however. Cost is always on people's minds, but treatment is much more costly than deworming (which the rep said is a better term for what the meds do).

Heartworm meds used to be every day, as late as the 80s! I was born after then, so I can't really imagine that.

So, Amymeme, you're doing things pretty much in line with the recommendations! My family rarely skips a month with Kiba, but I think it's mostly to keep in the habit of remembering.

For those out there who use different routines, go with what your vet suggests. I am a lowly student and so am still learning :p

Very nice post, Lucy! Thank you for opening up and sharing that!

Huskyluv wrote:

Very nice post, Lucy! Thank you for opening up and sharing that!

You're very welcome! I have been taught (and believed before that) that veterinarians are educators first and foremost, and transparency is hugely important. Plus, it's stuff people might benefit from knowing!

Lucy, a question for you. My topical tick stuff is a permethrin pyripoxifen combo. In my experience it is inadequate for kill of adult fleas, excellent against ticks and is advertised as a repellant against ticksand mosquitos. I have observed mosquitoes hovering around Ami but not landing on him. I haven't decided if that is really a a ed engine repellant or a function of how much fur my wooly boy has... do you have any information on that?

Not that I ever intend to not use heartworm preventive.

amymeme wrote:

Lucy, a question for you.  My topical tick stuff is a permethrin pyripoxifen combo.  In my experience it is inadequate for kill of adult fleas, excellent against ticks and is advertised as a repellant against ticksand mosquitos.  I have observed mosquitoes hovering around Ami but not landing on him.  I haven't decided if that is really a a  ed engine repellant or a function of how much fur my wooly boy has... do you have any information on that?

Not that I ever intend to not use heartworm preventive.

So admittedly I don't have as much experience/knowledge regarding these compounds. Is there a fipronil or imidacloprid compound in there as well? A lot of topical flea/tick products will have those as well as the pyrethrins/pyriproxyfen.

As for the mosquitos, I am not sure? The pyrethrins attack the nervous systems of bugs (so they kill them), whereas the pyriproxyfen is a hormone analog/growth regulator, meaning it prevents larvae from maturing (does not kill). Fipronil targets the nervous system of the insects, as does imidacloprid. Some of the products will have s-methoprene, which is a hormone regulator as well.

So theoretically the compounds you have should work as advertised, but if that pairing isn't keeping adult fleas off, you might want to try a different product. Based on which compounds are in which brands, I THINK the pyrethrins are more for the ticks, whereas the pyriproxyfen is more for the fleas. So, it seems like in your case, the pyrethrin may be working on the ticks, but not on the adult fleas, possibly because fleas feed differently? Is it definitely stopping the growth of larvae? In my experience the larvae tend to evade notice because they'll be hiding in furniture, in-between cracks in floorboards, in carpet, etc.

Hey guys, glad I came across this post.

Currently, I give Red Heartgard that I get from the vet for $8 per dose. I'll have to ask them about Iverhart Max. I was wondering if anyone has noticed any kind of sensitivity or preference when switching over from Heartgard to Iverhart? I know Red loves her Heartgard and gobbles it down like there's no tomorrow. She's a picky eater and I don't know how she'll respond to the harder tablet form of the Iverhart.

Lrose1990 wrote:

amymeme wrote:

Lucy, a question for you.  My topical tick stuff is a permethrin pyripoxifen combo.  In my experience it is inadequate for kill of adult fleas, excellent against ticks and is advertised as a repellant against ticksand mosquitos.  I have observed mosquitoes hovering around Ami but not landing on him.  I haven't decided if that is really a a  ed engine repellant or a function of how much fur my wooly boy has... do you have any information on that?

Not that I ever intend to not use heartworm preventive.

So admittedly I don't have as much experience/knowledge regarding these compounds. Is there a fipronil or imidacloprid compound in there as well? A lot of topical flea/tick products will have those as well as the pyrethrins/pyriproxyfen.

As for the mosquitos, I am not sure? The pyrethrins attack the nervous systems of bugs (so they kill them), whereas the pyriproxyfen is a hormone analog/growth regulator, meaning it prevents larvae from maturing (does not kill). Fipronil targets the nervous system of the insects, as does imidacloprid. Some of the products will have s-methoprene, which is a hormone regulator as well.

So theoretically the compounds you have should work as advertised, but if that pairing isn't keeping adult fleas off, you might want to try a different product. Based on which compounds are in which brands, I THINK the pyrethrins are more for the ticks, whereas  the pyriproxyfen is more for the fleas. So, it seems like in your case, the pyrethrin may be working on the ticks, but not on the adult fleas, possibly because fleas feed differently? Is it definitely stopping the growth of larvae? In my experience the larvae tend to evade notice because they'll be hiding in furniture, in-between cracks in floorboards, in carpet, etc.

For me, what I've ended up doing  is:  I use the permethrin/pyriproxifen for tick prevention because it is excellent for that, and the pyriproxifen for the IGR to prevent developent of flea larvae.  This I start in Mar when tick activity begins in our area.  Then, when flea pressure develops, late July/early Aug I had a fipronil only product but only once every few months.  The rationale you ask - s-methoprene is not stable in sunlight.  I want an IGR.  The permethrin has an extended duration against ticks, only at best, 3 weeks against adult fleas, the fipronil, according to reports, is only ok against ticks but has excellent activity for "up to 3 months" agains adult fleas.  There is no product available that combines permethrin, fipronil and pyriproxyfen...I can get permethrin/fipronil or fipronil s-methoprene or permethrin/pyriproxifen.

All this information is based on various reports I've read and the prescribing information for the individual products I've chosen.  So based on first year with revolution and preventic collar and loads of ticks, no fleas and the second year with generic ivermectin tablets, permethrin/pyriproxifen and no ticks/loads of fleas I will now, this year use the per/pyr topical every 2 months starting this week, ending in early to mid December, depending on temps and snow cover, fipronil starting July 15 every2-3 months ending first of Dec, again depending on temps and snow cover.  Once I get a week of below 34°, stopping the fipronil (I think that's my target temp - I'll have to look up again the minimum temp that flea eggs/larvae survive.)

I just wish I could get all three in one product, though my regimen is designed for cost-effectiveness and minimum drug exposure.  And I don't ever want to see another flea or tick   RIght, that's gonna happen...

Amanda - just saw your post - I use a generic ivermectin tablet. I have to wrap it in chicken and it is sometimes a bit difficult to get the beasties to take the pill. But it's bright blue so I can see if they miss any bits.

@Amy, Red is a brat with her pills too. If they're too big then she notices them and spits them out. I have to break the horse sized pills into smaller bits before I wrap them and trick her into eating them.

Pill pockets They have been awesome for my girl. There's a couple different brands with similar products, too, if you don't like the name-brand pill pockets.

Thanks Lucy! I actually have a couple bags of those on hand for those emergency situations. When she was prescribed with the antibiotics a month ago, the antibiotics were caplets rather than tablets. I wrapped them in the capsule pill pockets but I think due to the size, she chewed more than her usual and eventually spat out the caplet. I ended up having to split the caplet in half and wrapping each one separately. She took to the smaller size without any issues I think because she didn't have to chew as much and therefore, didn't taste the caplet immediately.

I found pieces of hot dogs work just like the pill pockets. You can push the pill into the fleshy part of the hot dog, and the hot dog wraps around it nicely so that it stays in place and hides it. My dogs swallow it whole and never notice they took their pills.

Oh yes, I forgot about that! Good idea. We don't normally have hot dogs but yes, those are definitely a less expensive method. I do remember we gave Red a small bit of a hot dog last year and she wolfed it down so fast.